Wake up

Stoof

Stoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooof
Staff
Joined
Jun 5, 2004
Messages
29,257
#21
I'm absolutely gutted about the result yesterday, and to be honest, I bloody knew it was going to happen. However, although I'm fed up with our defence conceding late goals and pissed off with refereeing decisions going against us, just because I don't feel the need to start 16 threads about it doesn't mean I'm fully of happy-happy-joy-joy love, it might just mean I'm not a miserable bastard.

(Check the Martin Petrov thread in the summer for highlights of me at my most miserable!)
BobbinsTheMiserable said:
So we've spent nearly £17m on a good but completely unnecessary striker and yet not got one of Europe's top left wingers for a paltry £4.7m? I'm actually fucking disgusted.
I think the conciseness makes it that even more miserable. :wink:
 

jimbo

Chaos Agent
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
6,236
#23
Not true fans in my opinion.
What you're suggesting here is exactly what you say you don't like, you're belittling other Spurs fans to try and prove that you are better in some way. I really don't like it when other Spurs fans claim to be more of a fan than any other. Much like we get in the 'you're not a real fan, 'cause you don't go to games' arguement. For me, all my fellow Spurs fans are real fans, I actually think we have some of the best fans in the Premier League, I didn't hear a peep from the Scousers on Sky when they cut to updates from Anfield. I think that attacking other Spurs fans commitment to the club is a nasty trait and not becoming of one of our 'true fans'.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
45,236
#24
What you're suggesting here is exactly what you say you don't like, you're belittling other Spurs fans to try and prove that you are better in some way.
I'm not trying to prove anything, this is the first time and probably the last I'll mention my theory on the 'fan' situation. I certainly don't go around accusing people of not being a "true fan" or questioning their loyalty like many others do on here.

Nothing I've said is belittling, per se, there was no attack. I was making an evaluation, I believe it to be an accurate one. I don't go into threads and point the finger at individuals and accuse them of not being a proper fan, a lot of that does goes on here.

So, totally disagree with you, sorry mate.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
13,987
#25
We all get bored of reactionary posts. We lose one match and the manager should be sacked, a few players perform under par and despite all their abilities are deemed useless. I'm not saying your opinion is reactionary but so many negative posts are.

The well reasoned opinions concentrating on positives and the negatives are always received well. The positive posts are also received because we are a much better team now than we have been since the Prem began.

The negative posts get very tiresome. I want to enjoy football both as a player and as a fan and when people just whine and call everyone associated with our club "useless, lazy w*****s" you wonder why these people are fans and what they are getting out of it.

My opinion is feel free to criticise and question but add in a few positives and well reasoned arguments and you'll get more positive feedback
 

jimmyh

Active Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
378
#26
cant believe that before the match on sunday if you read most of the predictions it was how many we where going to get beaten by but after whethering the supposed liverpool backlash from their european game we turned the game round battled for every ball and played some nice football as well and but for a really bad refereing decision and injury time goal we would have had all three points.We still have the doom and gloom merchants who no matter what we do it wont be enough. No one is happy with our predicament at the moment but we have to take into consideration that it is not just on the field that we have to put our house in order sometimes we need to bring proven players to move us to another level not just kids who are going to have a sell on value.Luck also has a part and we dont have any at the minute we need to get behind the boys and hope for the best.COYS
 

Yid-ol

Just-in-Edinburgh
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
25,191
#28
cant believe that before the match on sunday if you read most of the predictions it was how many we where going to get beaten by but after whethering the supposed liverpool backlash from their european game we turned the game round battled for every ball and played some nice football as well and but for a really bad refereing decision and injury time goal we would have had all three points.We still have the doom and gloom merchants who no matter what we do it wont be enough. No one is happy with our predicament at the moment but we have to take into consideration that it is not just on the field that we have to put our house in order sometimes we need to bring proven players to move us to another level not just kids who are going to have a sell on value.Luck also has a part and we dont have any at the minute we need to get behind the boys and hope for the best.COYS
agree with this post :up:

Before the game just about no one gave us hope, so even though i look at that and happy with the point we managed to get, it doesnt mean i am happy with the 2 points we lsot, i just dont want to go saying we will get religated, or Jol out and all that crap because we played well enough, and pushed a top 4 side who had a good record at home this season, they might not have been at there best, but then nore were we!
 

tippspur59

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2006
Messages
2,563
#29
Wake up! (Wake up)
Grab a brush 'n' put a little make up,
Hide the scars to fade away the, (shakeup) (hide the scars to fade away the (shakeup))
Why'd you leave the keys up on the table?
There you go create another fable,
You wanted to!
Good song that.
 

roguepsi

SC's Sexiest Male™ (retired)
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
4,388
#30
Wake up! (Wake up)
Grab a brush 'n' put a little make up,
Hide the scars to fade away the, (shakeup) (hide the scars to fade away the (shakeup))
Why'd you leave the keys up on the table?
There you go create another fable,
You wanted to!
Why have you forsaken me? :shrug:
 

rez9000

Upstanding Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
5,432
#31
I understand what u mean, BUT why all the shit thrown at people who dont understand why we always have to see it on the positive side...
Well, without meaning to sound childish sheringmann, I think you rather started it. And I quote:

sheringmann said:
YOU GO BE HAPPY YOU LITHIUMJUNKIES!
Now be honest, how did you expect people to react? I don't condone abusing other SC members. I used to do it myself until I realised that there are real people on the other side of the screen and have since bitten my tongue purple on occassion trying to restrain myself (and not always succeeding). But your comment is inflammatory.

As Stoof said, some of us choose to focus on the positives. If you think for one second that I trip around my living room, in a daze of Spurs-fuelled abandon, thinking that all's right in the world of Tottenham, then I have news for you.

I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it again, but at a time of crisis/difficulty/blip in form, I feel it becomes even more important to focus on the positives to prevent us from becoming demoralised. None of us are blind, sheringmann. We can all see the problems at the club. So rather than make ourselves feel worse by rehashing what is already self-evident, we pick out the bits that aren't that bad to keep our spirits up.

There is a point where optimism becomes self-defeating and delusional, but to say that the majority of us on this thread are fooling ourselves is just plain stupid. I had the happy fortune of meeting a few of the other SC members at the 125th, and on a number of occassions the conversation turned to the problems of the club. But it wasn't the only thing that was discussed because it would be a pretty soul-destroying experience if all one talked about was how badly Spurs were doing.

Sorry thinktank, but I'm going to have to take issue with you:

thinktank said:
My view is that there are fans who adopt a 'spurs fan' persona, they act how they think a loyal football supporter should act, regardless of the situation. The model they subscribe to is one where the spurs supporter is a cheerleader and apologist for the team/manager whatever happens and in doing so they 'prove' to everyone else that they are far more of a fan...than anyone else; the bestist fan in the whole wide world. Not true fans in my opinion.
Oooooooookay. And your evidence to back up this assertion is where? So you believe that rather than being generally optimistic and positive people, they are really negative people in positive sheep's clothing? I tell you what, Mr Occam would have a field day!

thinktank said:
They label anyone who has a critical word to say as a non-believer and a heretic and attempt to banish them from the kingdom of the pure. The irony is that the ones who 'criticize' (and I don't mean the unreasonably hyper-critical ones that are never satisfied and have absolutely no perspective on the game at all; I mean the ones that make reasonable/rational/logical points) are the ones I class as true supporters, they are ones who want to drive the club forward and see us succeed at the highest level and are not content with mediocrity.
They do? I've criticised a number of players on this forum (my favourite is Zokora) and have never been marginalised. There is a rather paranoic thrust to your argument that worries me a touch.

thinktank said:
There are some fans that have battered wives syndrome and will excuse the husband whatever. They are grateful for any 'crumb' they are given. They lose all perspective and their value system is shot to pieces.
Oh, sweet Jesus, WHAT??? Excuse me one second. I have to help pick my cousin, the qualified psychologist, up from where she's rolling on the floor, pissing herself laughing. It's FOOTBALL!

thinktank said:
I've supported this club all my life and have seen the highs and lows and loved this club through it all, that love I have for the club is what drives my passion to will us to succeed and progress, it also drives my anger and annoyance at the things we do that prevent this from happening.
And yet you feel qualified to cast judgement on the passions and love of other fans, just because they don't support the club the way you do?

thinktank said:
So, we have a lot of people, as supporters, who are more than comfortable with the status quo... (Rez: You see sheringmann, THIS is where you should have shouted 'wake up')...they've been there before, they know it well, it's almost strangely reassuring to be back in the arena of the average again. They still have all the tools to deal with it and reason it out and are more than willing to do so, to again, set themselves aside from the Judas mob.
Oh, I seeeeee. It's comfort zone supporting? You see, all this time whenever I was lucky enough to go to White Hart Lane, I didn't realise that I was actually shouting for the team to draw or lose. Why didn't you say so?

thinktank said:
I enjoyed writing that, that was very cathartic. :smile:
I can imagine!

To anyone who's felt marginalised by the general thrust of this forum, I would suggest you analyse the manner in which you post your threads (in fact isn't there an entire thread, stickied and devoted to that very subject? I'm sure I saw it somewhere, AT THE TOP OF THE THREADS PAGE!!!). EVen minor abuse, even language that isn't inherently abusive but is inflammatory alienates people and makes them less likely to listen and more likely to take up a contrary position (and that I have experienced).

For a forum to be a forum there have to be contrasting views. If someone feels that a contrary position to theirs is invalid then what's the point in joining the debate in the first place?

Sorry about the length peeps, I went off on one.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
#32
I agree with a couple of your poins but I thought we actually played pretty well and nullified them. I don't remember a game up there where they had so few real chances.

And according to sky the possession figure was 52% to us.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
45,236
#33
Sorry thinktank, but I'm going to have to take issue with you:

Originally Posted by thinktank
My view is that there are fans who adopt a 'spurs fan' persona, they act how they think a loyal football supporter should act, regardless of the situation. The model they subscribe to is one where the spurs supporter is a cheerleader and apologist for the team/manager whatever happens and in doing so they 'prove' to everyone else that they are far more of a fan...than anyone else; the bestist fan in the whole wide world. Not true fans in my opinion.
Oooooooookay. And your evidence to back up this assertion is where? So you believe that rather than being generally optimistic and positive people, they are really negative people in positive sheep's clothing? I tell you what, Mr Occam would have a field day!

Originally Posted by thinktank
They label anyone who has a critical word to say as a non-believer and a heretic and attempt to banish them from the kingdom of the pure. The irony is that the ones who 'criticize' (and I don't mean the unreasonably hyper-critical ones that are never satisfied and have absolutely no perspective on the game at all; I mean the ones that make reasonable/rational/logical points) are the ones I class as true supporters, they are ones who want to drive the club forward and see us succeed at the highest level and are not content with mediocrity.
They do? I've criticised a number of players on this forum (my favourite is Zokora) and have never been marginalised. There is a rather paranoic thrust to your argument that worries me a touch.

Originally Posted by thinktank
There are some fans that have battered wives syndrome and will excuse the husband whatever. They are grateful for any 'crumb' they are given. They lose all perspective and their value system is shot to pieces.
Oh, sweet Jesus, WHAT??? Excuse me one second. I have to help pick my cousin, the qualified psychologist, up from where she's rolling on the floor, pissing herself laughing. It's FOOTBALL!

Originally Posted by thinktank
I've supported this club all my life and have seen the highs and lows and loved this club through it all, that love I have for the club is what drives my passion to will us to succeed and progress, it also drives my anger and annoyance at the things we do that prevent this from happening.
And yet you feel qualified to cast judgement on the passions and love of other fans, just because they don't support the club the way you do?

Originally Posted by thinktank
So, we have a lot of people, as supporters, who are more than comfortable with the status quo... (Rez: You see sheringmann, THIS is where you should have shouted 'wake up')...they've been there before, they know it well, it's almost strangely reassuring to be back in the arena of the average again. They still have all the tools to deal with it and reason it out and are more than willing to do so, to again, set themselves aside from the Judas mob.
Oh, I seeeeee. It's comfort zone supporting? You see, all this time whenever I was lucky enough to go to White Hart Lane, I didn't realise that I was actually shouting for the team to draw or lose. Why didn't you say so?

Originally Posted by thinktank
I enjoyed writing that, that was very cathartic. :smile:
I can imagine!

To anyone who's felt marginalised by the general thrust of this forum, I would suggest you analyse the manner in which you post your threads (in fact isn't there an entire thread, stickied and devoted to that very subject? I'm sure I saw it somewhere, AT THE TOP OF THE THREADS PAGE!!!). EVen minor abuse, even language that isn't inherently abusive but is inflammatory alienates people and makes them less likely to listen and more likely to take up a contrary position (and that I have experienced).

For a forum to be a forum there have to be contrasting views. If someone feels that a contrary position to theirs is invalid then what's the point in joining the debate in the first place?

Sorry about the length peeps, I went off on one.
Hit a raw nerve, did I? :grin:

Oh, and your reference to Occams's Razor, in the context of what I wrote (specifically, the section you quoted), was erroneous. Can't be bothered to respond to the rest of your light-weight visceral waffle.

I better get started on that psychology degree, it's quite clear now I'm gonna need it before I dare to use another analogy on here. :roll:
 

rez9000

Upstanding Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
5,432
#34
Hit a raw nerve, did I? :grin:

Oh, and your reference to Occams's Razor, in the context of what I wrote (specifically, the section you quoted), was erroneous. Can't be bothered to respond to the rest of your light-weight visceral waffle.
What? Visceral, as in pertaining to the soft tissues of the body?

I better get started on that psychology degree, it's quite clear now I'm gonna need it before I dare to use another analogy on here. :roll:
No. An analogy would be saying it's like someone having battered wife syndrome and even then it would be taking it way too far, hence my cousin's virtual laughter aneurism. Battered wife syndrome, or more correctly, battered person syndrome, is a horrible, extremely complex, and highly damaging psychological condition. Now, I can agree that supporting Spurs can be full of ups and downs, and is hardly a stable pasttime, but to draw comparisons with a psychological condition of that nature is an unworthy practise and trivialises people who suffer from it.

As I said, it's football, not life and death. If you want to bring psychology into it, then you could say that any fan who refused to see the problems at the club would simply be in... denial.

But, for most, if not all of us, it's not about denying what's going on, but rather about not letting the bad stuff get us down. The best way of doing that is to focus on the positives. If you turn to me and say 'I think Spurs are in trouble' or 'the midfield needs desperate sorting' or 'Robinson should be benched right now', I'd be in full agreement with you and probably we'd bend each other's ears right off discussing the various problems and issues surrounding the club, and I'd respect you for your clear and analytical take on the club's fortunes.

But if you turn around and call my support into question, then what do you expect me to do? Stand there and take it? Bow down and pledge to never say a good word about the club again? Of course not. I'm likely to raise my hackles and fight my corner.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Messages
456
#35
No...i dont have any answers and that is not the point...im not blaming anyone either.....but before you slate me with finding no solutions...at least im not happy with the problems and many people are getting paid (lots) to find out! Just dont blame it on bad luck, because that aint good enough.....well at least not for me. I....(opposed to many here I believe) are not HAPPY with our performances and again: stop blaming bad luck!
for what it is worth I agree with you. Using 'bad luck' is ok now and then but it is used too often when we continue to not get results, just like another line 'we would have taken a a point'. If that is the case why bother going ahead in the first place ( be a sin to actually perform above ourselves now wouldnt it ), why even try for a win or turn up to the game even :shrug:

load of rubbish, if we find ourselves infront late in the game, doesnt matter who we are playing we are in the driving seat for a win, hold the lead and 3 points in the bag. Settling for a draw before or after the game like the 'would have taken a point' indicates, is a negative attitude that is not going to ever see us get into the top 4.

the point is here that if the scores were even going into the last 5 minutes or so you would take a point as the saying goes against the top teams, but if we are in front then no way, it is 2 points dropped if we fail to hold the lead. That is a positive and right attitude instead of being pleased with the draw because we were not meant to win :wink:

I aint a 'Jol out' person and have not said that once this season even though I have my doubts about Jol for a few valid reasons, but it does get annoying when you see someone saying stuff that is not positive getting told to support another club, they are not a 'true fan' or abusive language directed to them. Guess 'the truth hurts' as the saying goes. I am sure it doesnt give anyone who has non postive comments any pleasure saying the stuff they say I know it doesnt for me, but sometimes it has to be said. I know all I ask is that we learn from mistakes, when it continues to not happen is when I get pissed

Constructive comments the way to go and everyone is entitles to say what they want, if you dont agree say why :wink:
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
45,236
#36
What? Visceral, as in pertaining to the soft tissues of the body?

You can talk from the gut/s, yet still have none, Rez.

No. An analogy would be saying it's like someone having battered wife syndrome and even then it would be taking it way too far, hence my cousin's virtual laughter aneurism. Battered wife syndrome, or more correctly, battered person syndrome, is a horrible, extremely complex, and highly damaging psychological condition.
Oh dear. Wrong again, my furry little pedant in training. That it was an analogy would be something one would naturally infer, seen as though it would, of course, be ridiculous for it to be taken in any way literal. The nature of it is 'analogous', it's an obvious and stark comparison and can be read no other way. Indeed how could you have battered wives syndrome if you were not, in fact, a battered wife?

We can do semantics though, I don't mind. I suspect it's where we're off to next....

Now, I can agree that supporting Spurs can be full of ups and downs, and is hardly a stable pasttime, but to draw comparisons with a psychological condition of that nature is an unworthy practice and trivialises people who suffer from it.
Please. Don't give me this "trivializing a serious condition" bullshit. So what, now I'm vicious and insensitive. Rez, you're cheap.

As I said, it's football, not life and death. If you want to bring psychology into it, then you could say that any fan who refused to see the problems at the club would simply be in... denial.
Lol who are you, the psych. police! wtf lol. I'll put my view forward whether it has a philosophical base, a psychological base or it's just plain rant. It's my opinion and it's there to be agreed or disagreed with, or ignored. Take your pick.

But, for most, if not all of us, it's not about denying what's going on, but rather about not letting the bad stuff get us down. The best way of doing that is to focus on the positives. If you turn to me and say 'I think Spurs are in trouble' or 'the midfield needs desperate sorting' or 'Robinson should be benched right now', I'd be in full agreement with you and probably we'd bend each other's ears right off discussing the various problems and issues surrounding the club, and I'd respect you for your clear and analytical take on the club's fortunes.

But if you turn around and call my support into question, then what do you expect me to do? Stand there and take it? Bow down and pledge to never say a good word about the club again? Of course not. I'm likely to raise my hackles and fight my corner.
You've made a truck load of assumptions from what I said and seemingly you think my initial post was about or included you which says a lot...about you. As I said, I've never posted in this way about what I thought of the nature of some of the support we have and probably never will again, but it's an opinion formed over the 3 years I've been on this board.
 

rez9000

Upstanding Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
5,432
#37
Oh dear. Wrong again, my furry little pedant in training. That it was an analogy would be something one would naturally infer, seen as though it would, of course, be ridiculous for it to be taken in any way literal. The nature of it is 'analogous', it's an obvious and stark comparison and can be read no other way. Indeed how could you have battered wives syndrome if you were not, in fact, a battered wife?

We can do semantics though, I don't mind. I suspect it's where we're off to next....
Yes indeed:

analogy (n.): 1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

2. similarity or comparability

thinktank said:
Please. Don't give me this "trivializing a serious condition" bullshit. So what, now I'm vicious and insensitive. Rez, you're cheap.
As a man who witnessed his own mother being regularly brutalised by her husband, I took great offence at your statement. You have trivialised her suffering by comparing it to something that is, in the grand scheme of things, pretty trivial. I'm cheap? No, your use of the point is cheap.

thinktank said:
Lol who are you, the psych. police! wtf lol. I'll put my view forward whether it has a philosophical base, a psychological base or it's just plain rant. It's my opinion and it's there to be agreed or disagreed with, or ignored. Take your pick.
I'm sorry, but you brought psychology into it, possibly as an attempt to add weight to your specious argument and I called you on it. If you bring something into a debate you have no right to complain if someone argues the point.

thinktank said:
You've made a truck load of assumptions from what I said and seemingly you think my initial post was about or included you which says a lot...about you. As I said, I've never posted in this way about what I thought of the nature of some of the support we have and probably never will again, but it's an opinion formed over the 3 years I've been on this board.
No, I was using what is known as an hypothetical scenario, to illustrate a point. i.e. that if you present a balanced reasoned, argument in a calm and rational manner, you are more likely to gain a calm and reasoned response. However, if you bandy insults about, accusing other supporters of being blind, or, even worse, suffering from a psychological condition, you are more likely to get a hostile reception. Or are you suggesting that I alone in all the world respond badly to insults?
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
45,236
#38
Yes indeed:

analogy (n.): 1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.

2. similarity or comparability
I don't see how that refutes what I said in the quote you put it under. You can google for dictionary definitions all you want, but how about you apply it in a coherent answer to the point made. All you've done is found a part explanation for a word I already know. Thanks.

As a man who witnessed his own mother being regularly brutalised by her husband, I took great offence at your statement.
You're well within your rights to do so. That's your business.

You have trivialised her suffering by comparing it to something that is, in the grand scheme of things, pretty trivial. I'm cheap? No, your use of the point is cheap.
Get the fuck out of town with that fucking bullshit!

How about you stick to questioning the true content of my main points instead of trying to make capital out of the emotional provocativeness of them. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm an insensitive beast and a brute and you're gonna scream and scream and scream until you're sick.

I'm sorry, but you brought psychology into it, possibly as an attempt to add weight to your specious argument and I called you on it. If you bring something into a debate you have no right to complain if someone argues the point.
Yes, like the good little detective that you are, I did bring psychology into it. As thinking beings, psychology, always, naturally, inevitably, plays its part. Shock-horror I used it in my reasoning. Eek

No, I was using what is known as an hypothetical scenario, to illustrate a point. i.e. that if you present a balanced reasoned, argument in a calm and rational manner, you are more likely to gain a calm and reasoned response. However, if you bandy insults about, accusing other supporters of being blind, or, even worse, suffering from a psychological condition, you are more likely to get a hostile reception. Or are you suggesting that I alone in all the world respond badly to insults?
You took it upon yourself to be "insulted", Rez. Your name wasn't mentioned, my statements were general. You're the one who came bumbling into this thread with your indignation and your assumptions and your moral saber (which you've only succeeded in rattling, very feebly).

You seem to have quite a victim complex there to, by the looks of it, to go along with you're self-righteousness.
 

RickyVilla

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2004
Messages
15,080
#39
Bloody hell is this turning into a "I'm more intelligent than you." competition? If so count me out. I am thick as f**k. I do however think that everyone has an opinion and should be allowed to put it across within the boundaries of the site. Some of you negative vibe merchants on here have me biting my tongue but I do understand where you are coming from. Anyway, roll on the Toon. We are gonna destroy them.
 

rez9000

Upstanding Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
5,432
#40
You seem to have quite a victim complex there to, by the looks of it, to go along with you're self-righteousness.
What a small, sad individual you are. I'm not going to waste my time any further. You keep your negativity. I'll carry on thinking about the good things, thanks.

Yes, Ricky, we will stuff them!
 
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