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Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by sheringmann, Oct 8, 2007.
I think the conciseness makes it that even more miserable. :wink:
Bent is neccessary, but so is getting rid of Defoe, in my opinion.
What you're suggesting here is exactly what you say you don't like, you're belittling other Spurs fans to try and prove that you are better in some way. I really don't like it when other Spurs fans claim to be more of a fan than any other. Much like we get in the 'you're not a real fan, 'cause you don't go to games' arguement. For me, all my fellow Spurs fans are real fans, I actually think we have some of the best fans in the Premier League, I didn't hear a peep from the Scousers on Sky when they cut to updates from Anfield. I think that attacking other Spurs fans commitment to the club is a nasty trait and not becoming of one of our 'true fans'.
I'm not trying to prove anything, this is the first time and probably the last I'll mention my theory on the 'fan' situation. I certainly don't go around accusing people of not being a "true fan" or questioning their loyalty like many others do on here.
Nothing I've said is belittling, per se, there was no attack. I was making an evaluation, I believe it to be an accurate one. I don't go into threads and point the finger at individuals and accuse them of not being a proper fan, a lot of that does goes on here.
So, totally disagree with you, sorry mate.
We all get bored of reactionary posts. We lose one match and the manager should be sacked, a few players perform under par and despite all their abilities are deemed useless. I'm not saying your opinion is reactionary but so many negative posts are.
The well reasoned opinions concentrating on positives and the negatives are always received well. The positive posts are also received because we are a much better team now than we have been since the Prem began.
The negative posts get very tiresome. I want to enjoy football both as a player and as a fan and when people just whine and call everyone associated with our club "useless, lazy w*****s" you wonder why these people are fans and what they are getting out of it.
My opinion is feel free to criticise and question but add in a few positives and well reasoned arguments and you'll get more positive feedback
cant believe that before the match on sunday if you read most of the predictions it was how many we where going to get beaten by but after whethering the supposed liverpool backlash from their european game we turned the game round battled for every ball and played some nice football as well and but for a really bad refereing decision and injury time goal we would have had all three points.We still have the doom and gloom merchants who no matter what we do it wont be enough. No one is happy with our predicament at the moment but we have to take into consideration that it is not just on the field that we have to put our house in order sometimes we need to bring proven players to move us to another level not just kids who are going to have a sell on value.Luck also has a part and we dont have any at the minute we need to get behind the boys and hope for the best.COYS
Sometimes abuse can be fair comment.
agree with this post :up:
Before the game just about no one gave us hope, so even though i look at that and happy with the point we managed to get, it doesnt mean i am happy with the 2 points we lsot, i just dont want to go saying we will get religated, or Jol out and all that crap because we played well enough, and pushed a top 4 side who had a good record at home this season, they might not have been at there best, but then nore were we!
Good song that.
Why have you forsaken me? :shrug:
Well, without meaning to sound childish sheringmann, I think you rather started it. And I quote:
Now be honest, how did you expect people to react? I don't condone abusing other SC members. I used to do it myself until I realised that there are real people on the other side of the screen and have since bitten my tongue purple on occassion trying to restrain myself (and not always succeeding). But your comment is inflammatory.
As Stoof said, some of us choose to focus on the positives. If you think for one second that I trip around my living room, in a daze of Spurs-fuelled abandon, thinking that all's right in the world of Tottenham, then I have news for you.
I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it again, but at a time of crisis/difficulty/blip in form, I feel it becomes even more important to focus on the positives to prevent us from becoming demoralised. None of us are blind, sheringmann. We can all see the problems at the club. So rather than make ourselves feel worse by rehashing what is already self-evident, we pick out the bits that aren't that bad to keep our spirits up.
There is a point where optimism becomes self-defeating and delusional, but to say that the majority of us on this thread are fooling ourselves is just plain stupid. I had the happy fortune of meeting a few of the other SC members at the 125th, and on a number of occassions the conversation turned to the problems of the club. But it wasn't the only thing that was discussed because it would be a pretty soul-destroying experience if all one talked about was how badly Spurs were doing.
Sorry thinktank, but I'm going to have to take issue with you:
Oooooooookay. And your evidence to back up this assertion is where? So you believe that rather than being generally optimistic and positive people, they are really negative people in positive sheep's clothing? I tell you what, Mr Occam would have a field day!
They do? I've criticised a number of players on this forum (my favourite is Zokora) and have never been marginalised. There is a rather paranoic thrust to your argument that worries me a touch.
Oh, sweet Jesus, WHAT??? Excuse me one second. I have to help pick my cousin, the qualified psychologist, up from where she's rolling on the floor, pissing herself laughing. It's FOOTBALL!
And yet you feel qualified to cast judgement on the passions and love of other fans, just because they don't support the club the way you do?
Oh, I seeeeee. It's comfort zone supporting? You see, all this time whenever I was lucky enough to go to White Hart Lane, I didn't realise that I was actually shouting for the team to draw or lose. Why didn't you say so?
I can imagine!
To anyone who's felt marginalised by the general thrust of this forum, I would suggest you analyse the manner in which you post your threads (in fact isn't there an entire thread, stickied and devoted to that very subject? I'm sure I saw it somewhere, AT THE TOP OF THE THREADS PAGE!!!). EVen minor abuse, even language that isn't inherently abusive but is inflammatory alienates people and makes them less likely to listen and more likely to take up a contrary position (and that I have experienced).
For a forum to be a forum there have to be contrasting views. If someone feels that a contrary position to theirs is invalid then what's the point in joining the debate in the first place?
Sorry about the length peeps, I went off on one.
I agree with a couple of your poins but I thought we actually played pretty well and nullified them. I don't remember a game up there where they had so few real chances.
And according to sky the possession figure was 52% to us.
Hit a raw nerve, did I? :grin:
Oh, and your reference to Occams's Razor, in the context of what I wrote (specifically, the section you quoted), was erroneous. Can't be bothered to respond to the rest of your light-weight visceral waffle.
I better get started on that psychology degree, it's quite clear now I'm gonna need it before I dare to use another analogy on here. :roll:
What? Visceral, as in pertaining to the soft tissues of the body?
No. An analogy would be saying it's like someone having battered wife syndrome and even then it would be taking it way too far, hence my cousin's virtual laughter aneurism. Battered wife syndrome, or more correctly, battered person syndrome, is a horrible, extremely complex, and highly damaging psychological condition. Now, I can agree that supporting Spurs can be full of ups and downs, and is hardly a stable pasttime, but to draw comparisons with a psychological condition of that nature is an unworthy practise and trivialises people who suffer from it.
As I said, it's football, not life and death. If you want to bring psychology into it, then you could say that any fan who refused to see the problems at the club would simply be in... denial.
But, for most, if not all of us, it's not about denying what's going on, but rather about not letting the bad stuff get us down. The best way of doing that is to focus on the positives. If you turn to me and say 'I think Spurs are in trouble' or 'the midfield needs desperate sorting' or 'Robinson should be benched right now', I'd be in full agreement with you and probably we'd bend each other's ears right off discussing the various problems and issues surrounding the club, and I'd respect you for your clear and analytical take on the club's fortunes.
But if you turn around and call my support into question, then what do you expect me to do? Stand there and take it? Bow down and pledge to never say a good word about the club again? Of course not. I'm likely to raise my hackles and fight my corner.
for what it is worth I agree with you. Using 'bad luck' is ok now and then but it is used too often when we continue to not get results, just like another line 'we would have taken a a point'. If that is the case why bother going ahead in the first place ( be a sin to actually perform above ourselves now wouldnt it ), why even try for a win or turn up to the game even :shrug:
load of rubbish, if we find ourselves infront late in the game, doesnt matter who we are playing we are in the driving seat for a win, hold the lead and 3 points in the bag. Settling for a draw before or after the game like the 'would have taken a point' indicates, is a negative attitude that is not going to ever see us get into the top 4.
the point is here that if the scores were even going into the last 5 minutes or so you would take a point as the saying goes against the top teams, but if we are in front then no way, it is 2 points dropped if we fail to hold the lead. That is a positive and right attitude instead of being pleased with the draw because we were not meant to win :wink:
I aint a 'Jol out' person and have not said that once this season even though I have my doubts about Jol for a few valid reasons, but it does get annoying when you see someone saying stuff that is not positive getting told to support another club, they are not a 'true fan' or abusive language directed to them. Guess 'the truth hurts' as the saying goes. I am sure it doesnt give anyone who has non postive comments any pleasure saying the stuff they say I know it doesnt for me, but sometimes it has to be said. I know all I ask is that we learn from mistakes, when it continues to not happen is when I get pissed
Constructive comments the way to go and everyone is entitles to say what they want, if you dont agree say why :wink:
Oh dear. Wrong again, my furry little pedant in training. That it was an analogy would be something one would naturally infer, seen as though it would, of course, be ridiculous for it to be taken in any way literal. The nature of it is 'analogous', it's an obvious and stark comparison and can be read no other way. Indeed how could you have battered wives syndrome if you were not, in fact, a battered wife?
We can do semantics though, I don't mind. I suspect it's where we're off to next....
Please. Don't give me this "trivializing a serious condition" bullshit. So what, now I'm vicious and insensitive. Rez, you're cheap.
Lol who are you, the psych. police! wtf lol. I'll put my view forward whether it has a philosophical base, a psychological base or it's just plain rant. It's my opinion and it's there to be agreed or disagreed with, or ignored. Take your pick.
You've made a truck load of assumptions from what I said and seemingly you think my initial post was about or included you which says a lot...about you. As I said, I've never posted in this way about what I thought of the nature of some of the support we have and probably never will again, but it's an opinion formed over the 3 years I've been on this board.
analogy (n.): 1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.
2. similarity or comparability
As a man who witnessed his own mother being regularly brutalised by her husband, I took great offence at your statement. You have trivialised her suffering by comparing it to something that is, in the grand scheme of things, pretty trivial. I'm cheap? No, your use of the point is cheap.
I'm sorry, but you brought psychology into it, possibly as an attempt to add weight to your specious argument and I called you on it. If you bring something into a debate you have no right to complain if someone argues the point.
No, I was using what is known as an hypothetical scenario, to illustrate a point. i.e. that if you present a balanced reasoned, argument in a calm and rational manner, you are more likely to gain a calm and reasoned response. However, if you bandy insults about, accusing other supporters of being blind, or, even worse, suffering from a psychological condition, you are more likely to get a hostile reception. Or are you suggesting that I alone in all the world respond badly to insults?
I don't see how that refutes what I said in the quote you put it under. You can google for dictionary definitions all you want, but how about you apply it in a coherent answer to the point made. All you've done is found a part explanation for a word I already know. Thanks.
You're well within your rights to do so. That's your business.
Get the fuck out of town with that fucking bullshit!
How about you stick to questioning the true content of my main points instead of trying to make capital out of the emotional provocativeness of them. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm an insensitive beast and a brute and you're gonna scream and scream and scream until you're sick.
Yes, like the good little detective that you are, I did bring psychology into it. As thinking beings, psychology, always, naturally, inevitably, plays its part. Shock-horror I used it in my reasoning. Eek
You took it upon yourself to be "insulted", Rez. Your name wasn't mentioned, my statements were general. You're the one who came bumbling into this thread with your indignation and your assumptions and your moral saber (which you've only succeeded in rattling, very feebly).
You seem to have quite a victim complex there to, by the looks of it, to go along with you're self-righteousness.
Bloody hell is this turning into a "I'm more intelligent than you." competition? If so count me out. I am thick as f**k. I do however think that everyone has an opinion and should be allowed to put it across within the boundaries of the site. Some of you negative vibe merchants on here have me biting my tongue but I do understand where you are coming from. Anyway, roll on the Toon. We are gonna destroy them.
What a small, sad individual you are. I'm not going to waste my time any further. You keep your negativity. I'll carry on thinking about the good things, thanks.
Yes, Ricky, we will stuff them!
Separate names with a comma.