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Was there always a plan ?

King of Otters

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Jun 11, 2012
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Really great post. Having lived through the mid-table years, I'm aware of where we've come from, and the magnitude of that achievement, but I hadn't thought of us as literally the only club to establish themselves in the top 4 without being backed by oil money or a Russian oligarch.

Will anyone ever do that again?
 
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cider spurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2016
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Was there always a plan?

Yep...Something along the lines of win as many games as we can.
 

Luka Van der Bale

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2011
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nope I remember there being the big 6, Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal, Everton, A Villa and us in the 80's
Nope? What a petty response. Of course you remember the big 4 - it was all Sky could talk about for close to a decade. Yes there were eras before that where we were amongst the big boys, but you know full well what the original poster was getting at with their post.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
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Nope? What a petty response. Of course you remember the big 4 - it was all Sky could talk about for close to a decade. Yes there were eras before that where we were amongst the big boys, but you know full well what the original poster was getting at with their post.

the thing is I've been a Spurs fan for nearly 50 years and we will always be a big club in my eyes.

I know exactly what he was posting, and football has existed and in my eyes was so much better before Sky got involved. yes it's great with so much football to watch now days, but I remember the days when everyone including promoted teams had a chance to compete. Sky has caused so many teams to hit mega debt due to a dream to reach the promised land, or stay in it
 

coys200

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May 22, 2017
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the thing is I've been a Spurs fan for nearly 50 years and we will always be a big club in my eyes.

I know exactly what he was posting, and football has existed and in my eyes was so much better before Sky got involved. yes it's great with so much football to watch now days, but I remember the days when everyone including promoted teams had a chance to compete. Sky has caused so many teams to hit mega debt due to a dream to reach the promised land, or stay in it

Tbh I had to check this big 6 in the 80s cause as far as I can remember it was a big 1 in Liverpool. Everton and villa had a couple of top 3 finishes each, ok villa won the the european cup. Even United and Arsenal weren’t consistently in top 4. Liverpool completely dominated the 80s. As said it was really the top 4 when united arsenal chelsea Liverpool dominated the CL places for a decade and seemed impossible to break.

In regards to Lewis being a billionaire yes he was. But you know as well as I , it’s nothing on a par with city or Chelsea. Even being a billionaire these days isn’t enough. Take a club like palace they’d probably have to spend £500m just to challenge for top 4. And no right minded billionaire is gonna risk half his wealth on a football club. The Levy/ ENIC bashers constantly contradict themselves. Their mantra is spend spend spend, but then they don’t want to be a plastic club like city. I really don’t wanna be a happy clapper. But imo ENIC have got the balance between spending and keeping it organic and maintaining the club identity and growth almost perfect.
In the same way for me United and Liverpool don’t feel plastic because they built the heritage and deserve the right to be called big clubs.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
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Tbh I had to check this big 6 in the 80s cause as far as I can remember it was a big 1 in Liverpool. Everton and villa had a couple of top 3 finishes each, ok villa won the the european cup. Even United and Arsenal weren’t consistently in top 4. Liverpool completely dominated the 80s. As said it was really the top 4 when united arsenal chelsea Liverpool dominated the CL places for a decade and seemed impossible to break.

In regards to Lewis being a billionaire yes he was. But you know as well as I , it’s nothing on a par with city or Chelsea. Even being a billionaire these days isn’t enough. Take a club like palace they’d probably have to spend £500m just to challenge for top 4. And no right minded billionaire is gonna risk half his wealth on a football club. The Levy/ ENIC bashers constantly contradict themselves. Their mantra is spend spend spend, but then they don’t want to be a plastic club like city. I really don’t wanna be a happy clapper. But imo ENIC have got the balance between spending and keeping it organic and maintaining the club identity and growth almost perfect.
In the same way for me United and Liverpool don’t feel plastic because they built the heritage and deserve the right to be called big clubs.

in the 80's we were involved in title challenges, won trophies and along with the clubs mentioned were classed as the big 6.

I love the way we have got to where we are today, yes Oil or Shiek money might of seen us win so much more, but we have got to today on a shoestring compared to the others. the top 4 was due to being in the right place at the right time and also being financed. Man U have their history and massive stadium, that become bigger around the world due to the Munich disaster and the football the Busby babes played. Liverpool dominated the late 70's and 80's so become a worldwide merchandise. Arsenal found someone called AW who changed their style and become the best London team (God that hurts typing that), and Chelsea had someone called Mathew Harding pile a lot of cash to get the ball rolling. Then came sky, and UEFA changing comps, and those being in the right place at the right time controlled football, and dominated and become the SKY big 4. I'm posting my view as of the history since I've known football
 

DogsOfWar

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2005
2,293
3,603
1st 5 year average league position is 11
2nd " " " " is 7.6
3rd is 4.8
4th 4 year average is 3.25

This is continuous improvement and demonstrates that there has always been a plan.
Levy simply turned us into a business, buy low/sell high, sack people for underperforming, and invest in the infrastructure.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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The plan was what we're doing now back when we got Arnesen in to find the best young talent and Jol to manage them. It just didn't work out. Arnesen got tapped up and we got Comolli. Although neither of them really found enough high quality talent to take us to the promise land. Jol did the best he could with the players he had but didn't have the ability to make players great like Poch does.

So we turned to Ramos who had terrible man management. He did introduce us to the high energy pressing style to an extent but the players didn't buy into it. Maybe he just didn't have the right group of players for his style. So we got Harry as an emergency to get us out of trouble. He did a better job with the players he had and struck lucky with the likes of Modric and Bale.

I think Harry was always considered a short term appointment until we found another modern day manager. He did so well though that we kept him for 4 seasons. As soon as the chance came they let him go and went back to their initial plan by getting AVB. His style of play didn't work at all and again the players didn't seem to buy into it.

We finally hit the jackpot with Pochettino and forgot the sporting director role. So after a number of attempts we got it right. The right manager with the right group of players. So you could say this was the plan if not a bit late coming. The unfortunate thing is that in that time the League became much stronger. Had we got it right sooner we would have won some trophies by now, maybe a League title.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
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The Levy/ ENIC bashers constantly contradict themselves. Their mantra is spend spend spend, but then they don’t want to be a plastic club like city.

Tbf I think the Levy bashers who want us to spend couldn't care less if we were taken over by an Oligarch, I think that's exactly what they want
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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Arsenal found someone called AW who changed their style and become the best London team (God that hurts typing that),
Arsenal were already the top London team when Wenger took over. They just played Mourinho style football that people forget about. Wenger introduced them to something called attractive football. I think he was lucky to have the defensive unit to build around when he took over. He also took advantage of the wave of French talent at a time when France were top of world football and went on to win the World Cup. Once that talent from France started to drop and the defensive core went they won less.

Not to take away what he achieved because he revolutionised football in England at the time. But it's not like he didn't take over a team of League winners and one of the best defensive units in Europe.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
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Arsenal were already the top London team when Wenger took over. They just played Mourinho style football that people forget about. Wenger introduced them to something called attractive football. I think he was lucky to have the defensive unit to build around when he took over. He also took advantage of the wave of French talent at a time when France were top of world football and went on to win the World Cup. Once that talent from France started to drop and the defensive core went they won less.

Not to take away what he achieved because he revolutionised football in England at the time. But it's not like he didn't take over a team of League winners and one of the best defensive units in Europe.

the 4 seasons before he joined I believe we finished above them twice, but I agree they always had the defensive set up and he did change the face of football, but until Abramovic come along, the majority of seasons in the Premier saw Man U and Arse in 1st or 2nd position, with Liverpool and Chelsea fighting for 3rd and forth, apart from 2-3 seasons with Blackburn and Newcastle showing up
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
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Also wouldn’t underestimate the effect of the training ground(2012). Remember watching an extended video on YouTube. Can’t remember who it was but they were interviewing ex players and he said he’d never have gone home if they had this facility in his day. Also think training ground shows an owners real intent if they want to build the infrastructure. The spivs at West Ham have been there 7 years and done absolutely nothing to address their awful facilities. Certainly a crucial part of going to the next level.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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the 4 seasons before he joined I believe we finished above them twice, but I agree they always had the defensive set up and he did change the face of football, but until Abramovic come along, the majority of seasons in the Premier saw Man U and Arse in 1st or 2nd position, with Liverpool and Chelsea fighting for 3rd and forth, apart from 2-3 seasons with Blackburn and Newcastle showing up
They had a winning mentality already though. In the 90s they won the League twice, the League Cup once, FA Cup twice, Community Cup Three times and the European Cup Winners Cup.

That's the biggest challenge for Pochettino to manage a team that has won one FA Cup, Community Shield and Two League Cups since 1991. To finish as top London club is an over achievement really.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
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They had a winning mentality already though. In the 90s they won the League twice, the League Cup once, FA Cup twice, Community Cup Three times and the European Cup Winners Cup.

That's the biggest challenge for Pochettino to manage a team that has won one FA Cup, Community Shield and Two League Cups since 1991. To finish as top London club is an over achievement really.

yes Poch has a long way to go, and yes Arse history forever and a day has been better than ours if truth be told, but this last 12 years even if only finishing above them twice have wiped a lot of bad memories away:ROFLMAO:

don't get me wrong I will never be as happy as I was in the early 80's until we do start winning trophies, but those days weren't ruined by financially doped teams which has made it very hard to compete let alone win anything, but watching us play defend, and attack is as good as I've ever really witnessed, GD last 2 seasons, only conceded more than 2 goals in a game 3 times in 3 seasons, and only conceded 2 or more goals in the league 19 times in 103 matches
 

crokey

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Sep 1, 2012
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That is an incredibly generous interpretation of events. The majority of people associated with the club, and us as fans, were gobsmacked at his appointment. Most of us could only see it being a disaster. No hind sight this, we were all saying it at the time. Sherwood had no CV and no qualification for the job.

In terms of the "plan", Sherwood was outwardly hostile to the DoF system, he made no secret he was a fellow of the order of the "proper football men" and even boosted that he didn't pay attention to tactics. He made no secret he was against how the club had been recently organised i.e he was against "the plan". Yes, he made a play about giving youth a chance, but as a chancer, he knew, we all knew, he was a chancer, he knew he had to big up his role in youth development (even that is debatable, but let's not go there for now), I mean that was all of his CV, there was nothing else on it.

If the question is, did the club have a plan that it was following, then Sherwood's appointment is evidence to say that actually, no there was no plan. It was a period when Levy swung wildly from DoF system to old school manager in total charge and back again. Perhaps what happened was there was a plan, but Levy seriously wobbled when things didn't go well. Eventually, the coach/transfers/player development strategy returned, and we lucked out getting the perfect man for such a system in Poch.

Pep Guardiola had no qualifications for the Barcelona job

Sherwood was a swing and a miss, no real harm done
 

crokey

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
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Please don't compare Pep to Tim Sherwood.

Why not? Pep was/is successful and Sherwood wasn't, under reasonably similar circumstances. What's the problem with the comparison?

I don't think you know what the definition of a comparison is.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
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yes Poch has a long way to go, and yes Arse history forever and a day has been better than ours if truth be told, but this last 12 years even if only finishing above them twice have wiped a lot of bad memories away:ROFLMAO:

don't get me wrong I will never be as happy as I was in the early 80's until we do start winning trophies, but those days weren't ruined by financially doped teams which has made it very hard to compete let alone win anything, but watching us play defend, and attack is as good as I've ever really witnessed, GD last 2 seasons, only conceded more than 2 goals in a game 3 times in 3 seasons, and only conceded 2 or more goals in the league 19 times in 103 matches
You're lucky to have followed us back then. I was born in 84 so it was really the 90s when I really started to understand football and it all sort of went downhill. Typical that it went that way during my time supporting us. So I don't really know better than what we have right now. At least I can wear my Spurs shirt with pride these days. I still rememeber the mornings after a 6-0 loss dreading going to school the next day.
 
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