Match Threads Watford vs Spurs - Match Thread

[UbeAstard]

Still chance for such physical crap to get relegated. They can fuck off

Why you upset though mate? An inferior team has used a legitimate different approach to beat us. Well done to them, I'd be happy for them to win the league if we cant.

 

[A.J.]

I think what is meant by the "Hugo not being there hurt us"-narrative is not necessarily that Lloris would've saved specific shots (that Vorm didn't) but rather is down to the fact that our defense has a more impenetrable air when he's between the sticks. Hugo yells, sets up walls and just generally commands his area; maybe Vorm is less assured in this respect?

I don't have a dog in the fight but even I have to admit to a certain feeling of unease when anyone but Lloris isn't the keeper. I readily admit, though, that even if he was there we still likely would've lost yesterday as poorly as we played.

We had three center half's on the pitch, neither that got anywhere near the ball crossed in from two dead ball situations. Both Vorm and Lloris could have both been between the sticks and neither would have got near the headed goals.

Looking for a scapegoat is easy, but the fact is the center halfs should take responsibility for both goals, nothing any keeper could have done to stop those two gifted chances from going in.

 

[shelfboy68]

We had three center half's on the pitch, neither that got anywhere near the ball crossed in from two dead ball situations. Both Vorm and Lloris could have both been between the sticks and neither would have got near the headed goals.

Looking for a scapegoat is easy, but the fact is the center halfs should take responsibility for both goals, nothing any keeper could have done to stop those two gifted chances from going in.

Spot on it was shit defending which has been on the menu for a while but we have been getting away with it like at Utd last week.

 

[shelfboy68]

The thing I've noticed with the team is that when we are allowed to slow the game down and try to dictate things we look good, but when the opposition step it up and get among the side it goes to shit rather quickly with sloppy defending miss placed passes and generally getting over run across all positions.
They struggle to stay in the game and take the sting out of it for a while whilst trying to get back control of the game again, the team folds far too easy and is certainly not title material imo.

 

[Hans Gruber]

People are talking a lot about the players but by far the most worrying aspect of the game yesterday was Poch and his decision making. His proactivity during the Fulham game made many here think he'd learned from his previous mistakes in big games and improved his in-game management. Yesterday blows that theory out of the water. It was embarrassing watching the team gradually disintegrate and see Poch do nothing for 80 odd minutes. It should have been clear by half time that something had to change, if not a sub then a change in formation. Our fullbacks were too deep and Dembele was getting overrun in midfield as Dele and Eriksen are not natural midfielders. The whole structure of the team was completely lopsided, and it's not the first time this has happened this season too, specifically for long periods against both Fulham and United we were getting overrun in the middle. And then to bring on Llorente. Jesus. People have been complaining about our centre-backs but honestly they were absolutely class in that first half yesterday, but you haven't got much chance over the 90 if your manager sets you up as a flat back 5 with only one holding player to protect you and who isn't even a DM. Embarrassing. This is all on Poch. Fuck and it's so annoying because you know he's gonna keep making more of these tactical blunders throughout the season. Expect late stage exits from the big competitions again when we come up against competent managers.

 

[shelfboy68]

People are talking a lot about the players but by far the most worrying aspect of the game yesterday was Poch and his decision making. His proactivity during the Fulham game made many here think he'd learned from his previous mistakes in big games and improved his in-game management. Yesterday blows that theory out of the water. It was embarrassing watching the team gradually disintegrate and see Poch do nothing for 80 odd minutes. It should have been clear by half time that something had to change, if not a sub then a change in formation. Our fullbacks were too deep and Dembele was getting overrun in midfield as Dele and Eriksen are not natural midfielders. The whole structure of the team was completely lopsided, and it's not the first time this has happened this season too, specifically for long periods against both Fulham and United we were getting overrun in the middle. And then to bring on Llorente. Jesus. People have been complaining about our centre-backs but honestly they were absolutely class in that first half yesterday, but you haven't got much chance over the 90 if your manager sets you up as a flat back 5 with only one holding player to protect you and who isn't even a DM. Embarrassing. This is all on Poch. Fuck and it's so annoying because you know he's gonna keep making more of these tactical blunders throughout the season. Expect late stage exits from the big competitions again when we come up against competent managers.

Sometimes he gets the subs right but I agree this is a fairly regular occurrence leaving it too late for changes I guess he is hoping that the team can turn it around but sometimes you need to change it early to grab back the initiative.
The other problem he has is the lack of who to bring on as llorente is not the answer and Kane looks way off the pace, I know people don't like it mentioned but the squad needed new voices in the squad this summer and a decent investment was required but never happened and that I believe will seriously bite us in the arse this season but levy and poch know best.

 

[Shadydan]

Really? He’s gone as far as to tell the players - and us via his post match IV - that we haven’t been good enough, aggressive enough or clinical enough this season. And unless you didn’t see the game I’m not sure how you could argue otherwise regarding yesterday.

Yes but your analysis in your preceeding post which stated that there must be problems behind the scenes because we lost a match is a reach, we win 3 matches and all is well and good but we lose 1 and all of a sudden there's some sort of issue?

Playing badly doesn't mean the sky is about to fall in, it means you played badly and you need to improve that's all.

 

[Seafordian Spurs]

The thing I've noticed with the team is that when we are allowed to slow the game down and try to dictate things we look good, but when the opposition step it up and get among the side it goes to shit rather quickly with sloppy defending miss placed passes and generally getting over run across all positions.
They struggle to stay in the game and take the sting out of it for a while whilst trying to get back control of the game again, the team folds far too easy and is certainly not title material imo.

Doesn't bode well for Liverpool game... ??

 

[Makkaveli101]

Doesn't bode well for Liverpool game... ??

On the flip side, I think we always look better against teams that come at us, opening up the pitch. Yesterday's first half was the usual frustrating game of trying to break down 10 men behind the ball.

 

[shelfboy68]

Doesn't bode well for Liverpool game... ??

No it doesn't luckily I will be out the country when the game is on so will avoid watching it and spoiling the holiday

 

[Hans Gruber]

On the flip side, I think we always look better against teams that come at us, opening up the pitch. Yesterday's first half was the usual frustrating game of trying to break down 10 men behind the ball.

Not at all. I'd say Watford actually came at us a fair bit, far more than other teams usually do.

 

[Shadydan]

The thing I've noticed with the team is that when we are allowed to slow the game down and try to dictate things we look good, but when the opposition step it up and get among the side it goes to shit rather quickly with sloppy defending miss placed passes and generally getting over run across all positions.
They struggle to stay in the game and take the sting out of it for a while whilst trying to get back control of the game again, the team folds far too easy and is certainly not title material imo.

What generally happens under Poch to us is that when teams give us space and time to play we're as good as anyone but when we come up against physical teams who are up for a battle we lose our rythym and our game falls apart, which is why we've always generally struggled against West Brom, Palace at times, Chelsea got to us in that match in 2016 and we lost focus.

Teams that stop us from playing generally get the better of us and frustrate us, it happened against Watford, I'm a bit disappointed that we haven't yet learnt from it.

 

[Seafordian Spurs]

On the flip side, I think we always look better against teams that come at us, opening up the pitch. Yesterday's first half was the usual frustrating game of trying to break down 10 men behind the ball.

True... And, without wishing to jinx this, we do seem up for it against teams at our level. I dunno. I'm still browned off about yesterday. Just hope our boys have the opportunity to rest (?!) during the international break.

 

[shelfboy68]

What generally happens under Poch to us is that when teams give us space and time to play we're as good as anyone but when we come up against physical teams who are up for a battle we lose our rythym and our game falls apart, which is why we've always generally struggled against West Brom, Palace at times, Chelsea got to us in that match in 2016 and we lost focus.

Teams that stop us from playing generally get the better of us and frustrate us, it happened against Watford, I'm a bit disappointed that we haven't yet learnt from it.

Have to agree with you that it is frustrating that it is still happening after so much good work put in by poch that we are still suspect in this area, in fact he looks and sounds pissed off by it also especially as the team is maturing in many ways it is something that they all need to get a handle on if we are to push on for bigger and better things.

 

[Barrd10]

I blame Poch completely for the result yesterday. If you are going to play wingbacks they have to be a threat . Davis simply isn’t so its easy to defend against us as we only really attack down one side. That’s said Kane has been a yard behind the game for months now for England and Spurs. Eriksen has been poor too. Dele is always going to be hit and miss as that’s how he plays - the flick / trick either works or not. And he can’t shoot from distance.
Also Poch’s subs were terrible. Bringing on Rose for Davies with a couple of minutes left was pointless. Against Fulham his subs changed the game but maybe that’s because he got the starting 11 wrong again.

 

[wadewill]

He got the starting XI wrong yesterday aswell

 

[Bulletspur]

Yeah I know, fail so see how what Vorm had to do with it. Kane lost his man for the first goal and Dembele for the second. Vorm could not have come off his line for either.

I also don't think Lamela and Son would have had the desired effect. Both of those players do not like the physical battle. We lost because we were too passive, coasting around in the first half and didn't compete properly in the 2nd, and ended up getting bullied.

Eh?

Ok, I’ll rephrase. He might like it, but against those man mountains in their team he’ll be outmuscled and rendered ineffective.

Eh?

I understand where you’re coming from, but I think you do Lamela a disservice by saying he’d become “ineffective.” He is also a smart player and, as he has demonstrated recently, can pick the pass that can turn a defence. In effect he can render their physicality somewhat ineffective. Turn them towards their own goal, make them throw in last ditch challenges and you increase the chances of them making mistakes. Their physicality works against them somewhat in that scenario. We failed to do that last night, playing in front of them too much. On the odd occasion when we did have them facing their own goal, they looked vulnerable.

A moot point anyway, Lamela didn’t play and we ended up playing to their strengths rather than ours.

Awwww!

 

[spursfan77]

Still annoyed about this result and the fact we lose our players to their national teams. I see Man City have withdrawn Sterling. We should pull a few of ours out if we had any sense.

 

[Metalhead]

Still annoyed about this result and the fact we lose our players to their national teams. I see Man City have withdrawn Sterling. We should pull a few of ours out if we had any sense.

Of all the teams that are going to be least affected by injury, although fair play, I don't blame them.

 

[Jonesey]

Yes but your analysis in your preceeding post which stated that there must be problems behind the scenes because we lost a match is a reach, we win 3 matches and all is well and good but we lose 1 and all of a sudden there's some sort of issue?

Playing badly doesn't mean the sky is about to fall in, it means you played badly and you need to improve that's all.

I guess that's the worry. We weren't great for 65mins admittedly but even at 75% we still dominated the game until we were bullied into submission. The point is that the desire hasn't been there since the beginning of the season. We've been sloppy, under par, our defence is leaking goals it shouldn't (remember this was our strongest defence on paper), we're insipid going forward, our build-up is slow. We don't look like the team we were last season (although admittedly our build up was slow last season at times too). We wouldn't have lost that game last season - or the previous season.

Some will blame tiredness. Eriksen certainly looks tired. Kane looks well off the pace and tired. Alli isn't tired as much as not looking like he's going to be the player he was two seasons ago ever again without a serious wake-up call (one that doesn't look like it's coming any time soon).

But Poch certainly isn't blaming tiredness, he's saying all of the above - and adding that our winning scorelines have flattered to deceive so far this season.

Intel from the club (and sources on here can clarify I'm sure as it's not exactly a secret behind closed doors) is that Toby and Rose both definitely wanted to go - just not to the clubs who came in for them. Toby wanted Man U but Levy wouldn't sell to them because they didn't offer enough cash - he would have though, if they had ... something which angered Poch as he believes that not many top-6 clubs would sell good players to their closest rivals for top-4 - even if they wanted to leave. And he has a point.

This is compounded by the fact that some of the key first team players (Toby, Rose, Dier, Alli, more recently Trippier sadly) are far from pleased with the lack of transfer activity because they don't feel the team are currently good enough to challenge for honours or trophies, despite the lines to the press RE: the lack of purchases meaning it shows the manager's faith in the current squad.

Combine this with the problems with the stadium and the unrest that creates amongst the players having to play another nomadic season at the last minute and ... it's no wonder there are problems behind the scenes with this team. Anyway, I'm just going by what I've been told. If anyone on here knows any different let them be the ones to shoot it down by all means.