Well would you?

Discussion in 'Columns' started by JimmyG2, Dec 24, 2011.

  • by JimmyG2, Dec 24, 2011 at 3:06 PM
  • JimmyG2

    JimmyG2 SC Supporter

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    Well would you resign Dimitar Berbatov? Growing excitement amongst Spurs fans, and not a little argument. He could be available in January at reasonable cost as he seems surplus to requirements at Man.Utd. Great player, one of the best in a Spurs shirt in the Premiership years.

    He would certainly boost our push for top three this season and provide necessary support for Adebayor. We might not even be vastly out of pocket from the sale of Pavlyuchenko.

    So where's the problem? No brainer to some, perhaps to most. However let me present an alternative view.

    We are currently third in the Premiership at the top of the London league.

    We have achieved this through sound financial management, increasing stability of managers and squad and careful team-building.

    We have had four fifth place finishes and a wonderful year in the Champions' League in the past few years and could do it again this year.

    We have recruited some outstanding senior players, some talented youngster and retained all of our best players.

    How have we achieved this without a shiny new stadium to generate cash?

    At the moment we don't pay top whack salaries or pay ridiculous transfer fees.

    We don't have owners who have pockets deep enough to satisfy our every whim.

    We don't offer the certainty of the Champions' League though the whole situation is becoming much more fluid.

    So what exactly is our USP as the marketing boys say? It's certainly not sexy money. It certainly includes the prospect of a brighter future and our reputation currently as possibly the most exciting team in the Premiership. Cue 'The Entertainers'.

    We have at root our prestige as a famous club; our reputation as a side that plays good football and our integrity as a fair, honest, stable and well run club. We won't attract the mercenaries and trophy hunters with this pitch but it might appeal to the next level, Modric, Van der Vaart, Berbatov himself at the time. Players who haven't quite hit the headlines or don't fit in where they are.

    It will appeal to up and coming stars like Sandro, and to experienced players looking for a safe haven at the end of their careers, Friedel, Gallas and Parker for example. It is enough to retain our current stars, Bale, Lennon,Walker.

    So back to the Berbatov dilemma. Some would sign him without a second thought because he's a good player and whatever happened in the past is water under the bridge. Success is all that matters.

    Some would sign him with pegs on their noses but sign him nevertheless saying that there's no point cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    Some like me would not re-sign him at any price because of the circumstances under which he left. He showed total disrespect to the club, was a destabilising and disruptive influence and to ignore all this undermines the very integrity on which our success relies.

    Success must be achieved by the proper means, not bought, not cheated for or else it is a hollow sham and not worth having. I desperately want us to succeed; I pine for Champions' League and for the signing of better and better players and I've waited for it for a lot longer than most of you. But not at any cost or at any price.

    Out of touch I may be but so in a sense are our core values, but we don't seem to be doing too badly by them. There are many reasons to dislike Harry but he has restored our pride through success on the pitch.

    And he has done all this without losing his dignity, slagging off other managers and referees; without encouraging the team to dispute every decision, or crowd the referee. I take almost as much store by our current position as top of the Fair Play league as I do at our third place in the Premiership.

    Success then, achieved the right way, playing good football, with a well integrated and bonded team under Harry's benign dictatorship. Berbatov, great player but poor attitude. You didn't want us when we needed you and there should be no rewards for rejection.

    Thanks Dimitar, but no thanks. We made this mistake with Keane and even made him captain. Let's not humiliate ourselves again.
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Discussion in 'Columns' started by JimmyG2, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. WhiteHeartLowe
    I woulnt sign him simply because I dont think he is the player he was when he was with us before, and in his mind, wont he always be thinking hed rather be at Old trafford.....?
  2. Krafty
    No. Never go back, and when he wasnt the most motivated player in the first place, even if he is 10% less motivated then he would be a disappointment. I think we need to go out and get the next Berbatov - a quality player entering his prime, around 10 mill, he will have the ability and the desire.
  3. ultimateloner
    Most of the facts point towards a yes with only the doubt in whether he is the same player he was the only drawback. However class is perm, esp given his edge (technique as opposed to pace). Also he is probably the best and cheapest subsitute for Adebayor.

    The reasons against resigning him is sentimental and I can't relate that to success or entertinament. You can only talk of 'pride in success' if you actually have any, but football is fast-changing and an injury to Adebayor would dry our goals up and see us quicky fall. This isn't unthinkable either.
  4. CosmicHotspur
    Coming back doesn't always work because the team/squad dynamic changes from season to season and I honestly don't think he's the player he once was.

    If he had stayed, he'd no doubt be an integral part of our current squad and he may well now regret the decision to leave when he did.

    Just as Robbie Keane did.
  5. mil1lion
    I think we should be looking to sign a young number 9 like Leandro or Abel Hernandez.

    Berbatov is at his best when he's the main man. He is a top quality player but he also benefited from being the star of our team. If he's not the star then he is a big sulker and doesn't look half the player.
  6. davidmatzdorf
    I have a very different take on Berbatov's departure to nearly all other Spurs supporters, because I tend to see it from Berbatov's point of view as much as from the perspective of a Tottenham fan.

    I think Berbatov has quite a depressive personality. He's a melancholic by nature and that's a very unusual mindset for a footballer. Introspective sportsmen tend to get an exceptionally hard time from fans and teammates: Stan Collymore perhaps devised a few rods for his own back, but remains an extreme example of a player whose talent was undermined by his depressive tendencies; in a very different way, Graeme Le Saux is a player who got interminable and unmerited stick - mainly from his teammates - because he didn't fit the stereotypical personality and lifestyle of the footballer. I could name a few others, all different, but all with introspection and a strain of melancholy or depression in common.

    In that context, I don't accept the official Spurs-fan view, which is that Berbatov "went on strike" and "disrespected the club". From all sorts of signs that were perceptible at the time, I'm pretty sure that he was in a major state of anxiety and panic in August 2008. His life-dream was being blocked and he couldn't see a way to realise it. Spurs had failed, certainly through no fault of Berbatov and his 20+ goals, to qualify for the Champions League for a second successive season and he felt that his chance was escaping.

    I don't think he was in any fit state to make rational decisions at all. Now, one can criticise that as a weakness and a failing, indeed his tendency to internalise and to brood has caused problems with his demeanour ("sulking") and consistency wherever he has played, but for fans to harbour an unforgiving rage about it and to speak of "betrayal" and "dishonour" just seems to me to be a misinterpretation of what was happening at the time.

    Put into that context, my views on whether we might want Berbatov back at Tottenham have solely to do with 1) whether he would be a footballing asset and 2) whether Redknapp could do any better at managing this especially odd player than Jol, Ramos and Ferguson, none of whom managed to get his trust and confidence and thus get him integrated into a squad, both as a player and as a person.

    I haven't really watched him play in any detail since the day he scored 4 goals in a game early last season. Assuming he's still got two thirds of what he had when he was at Tottenham, that makes him still a better striker than anyone we have except Adebayor. More importantly, his skill-set is right. he's the right kind of striker to act as an alternative to Adebayor and that's what is missing from our squad.

    But can Redknapp manage him, which means can he gain his confidence and trust and get him playing with consistency and positivity? That's a tall order, because Berbatov is such an odd, mercurial character, but the fact is that we are presently not only accommodating Adebayor and Gallas, both of whom had reputations for being troublesome employees, in our squad, but Harry has managed to jockey them into acting as cheerleaders for Spurs and for Redknapp's managerial skills. If anyone can deal with Berbatov, it has to be Redknapp.

    So I reckon it would be a well-judged risk. Not that I think it's likely to arise.
  7. Gaz_Gammon
    Bring him back and Sol as well, that way we can all enjoy the sheer joy of being fucked twice over.
  8. Nick
    I like Berbatov but i'd rather have a young up and comer. Leandro
  9. Mattspur
    I'd have him back all day. He'd add to the quality of our squad.
  10. gloryglory
    I'm sorry, I don't see what the difference is between what Berbatov did and what Modric did. The only difference is how we reacted to the two. If we can forgive Modric, we can forgive Berbatov.

    Like David, I try to see these things from players' points of view as well. In Berbatov's case, I never begrudged him his departure. He was clearly far too good for us. We were going backwards at the time. Playing alongside Darren Bent, basically the anti-Berbatov, clearly exasperated him. He had never hid his desire to play for one of the best clubs in the world, and when the opportunity arose (not for the first time), it was under the most successful manager in world football. Berba wasn't getting any younger, so he took that opportunity. Most of us in his position would have done much the same, Spurs blinkers aside.

    If anything, Modric ought to be the harder to forgive because he tried to engineer a move from a Spurs side much more on the up, to a not-much-better team, with an unproven manager, and with many years ahead of him at the top. And did I mention that it happened to be to the second richest club in the world? Much the more mercenary of the two players, really.

    And Berbatov is brilliantly gifted and plays the right style of football for our team - a perfect combination with Van der Vaart, I'd imagine - so to me it's a no brainer if we can.
  11. mattyspurs
    Levy would never sanction it
  12. kernowspur
    Never. He effectively went on strike in order to leave. There is no way back for him because the club is bigger than any player.
  13. Riandor
    As long as he was motivated then a big yes... he was the first player since Ginola to really play the "Spurs" way and I loved watching us play as a result.

    If redknap can get the best out of him he would be a great signing, but I worry about the mental aspects with regards to players returning to clubs they left for greater glory. Sheringham is the only one I can think of who came back and still gave his all.

  14. walworthyid
    I would have him back in a flash. He would add to the quality of our squad in a position we really need.

    I personally think he would want to come back as well. I believe that when he looks back at his career that his time at spurs will be the highlight. He was at his best and completely adored by our fans.
  15. minesadouble
    Some things are meant to be. Berba's sale and our poor form that resulted basically triggered the departure of Ramos and the appointment of Harry. We got nearly 30 million for a player who's won a few trophies (as a squad player) but who has never played in red like he did when he had a cockerel on his chest. I agree with much of David's post above.

    The past is the past. The question is the future. Can he play and can he be integrated ? Will our players and fans accept him ? I think he can play, and more's the point, he'd be a great replacement for Pav, offering much better alternatives in combination with Ade or Defoe or as a lone striker. Harry would have a much better chance of managing and motivating him than any other manager. The fans ? Who knows.

    I don't think it will happen for several reasons, but at the right price, and if United would sell to us nowadays, I'd take a punt on Berbatov and welcome him back.
  16. King Yid
    At the very least he is an upgrade on Pav, therefore the squad would strengthen. I don't like the way he left, but I could forgive. The real question, however, is could the players who were at Spurs, such as Ledley, Dawson, Bale, Lennon and Defoe also forgive?

    From an unblinkered view, Keane played the best football of his career by playing alongside Berbatov. When he came back to the club, there was no Berba, hence his struggle to replicate his form before he left. If Berba were to return to Spurs, I think we have a ready made upgrade on Keane in the form of Rafa. Also bear in mind the improvement in Bale and Lennon and the arrival of Modric since his departure and then imagine the damage he could do.

    At the end of the day, if we can accept Gallas and Ade into the fold, surely there is room for Berba. Everyone makes mistakes.
  17. JimmyG2
    An interesting and for all I know correct analysis of the Berbatov problem.
    But far too many 'known unknowns', 'unknown knowns', special pleadings and leaps of faith to arrive at the conclusion that it's the club that let Berbatov down and not the other way round, thus freeing the way for him to return without loss of face for us.

    Surely the probability is that he wanted to move to Man.Utd and manouevred and eventually engineered just such a move in pursuit of his wholly understandable desire to play at a higher level than we could offer him at the time.
    He wanted to leave, Levy made it difficult, there was unpleasantness, goodbye and good luck to you Mr. Berbatov.
    If it doesn't work out don't phone us.

    I think that your conclusion that it would be a 'well judged risk' is a complete stab in the dark , more so than less if your analysis of his possible mental state is accurate.
  18. Sweetsman
    I presume people have heard the parable of the prodigal son? Berbatov has never been fully accepted by Man Utd fans, but if he were to come back and contribute then I think that he would be accepted by Spurs fans. He is better than Pav and also Defoe, whose focus is one thing: Jermain Defoe. In fact, were he to come back then it might cause Defoe to leave, but not until the summer and that would be OK by me. I don't know about DM's hypothesis, but there was a general malaise at the club at the time and he may not have seen a future. I will be very interested to see this for one reason only and I have said this on the last match thread: if ManU refuse to sell, then I think it will show that they do fear us. If they don't wish to sell then go for Odemwinge, who can also play on the right. And in the summer, if Harry is still here, why not go in for Torres?
    MERRY CHRISTMAS, everyone!
  19. spud
    A difficult question, and you argue your point most persuasively Jim. Some interesting insights too from Mr. Matzdorf.

    I am ambivalent on the subject, agreeing in principle with the argument that betrayal does not warrant a second chance and that principles are more important than instant gratification. But there is a part of me thinking 'to err is human.....'. It is also worth considering the poisonous atmosphere within the club under Ramos and the consequent thought that it would be difficult to blame anybody wanting to leave at that time.

    The other aspect to consider is the team dynamic, Somebody pointed out that there are players who 'hung in there' after Berbatov left and they might not welcome him back with open arms.

    So I think I will slope my shoulders and side with the Manager on this one. If he feels that Berbatov can make a contribution and that he can harness his 'troubled psyche' for the good of the team and the club, then I will have no objection. If not, I won't lose any sleep over it.

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