What's new

We're almost there...

Dec 6, 2006
11
0
Hi all,

As a first time writer on this glorious website I'd just like to give my opinion on where our beloved team is going wrong. And I promise not to include throw-away, ill-conceived phrases like 'he's shit' or 'sack Ramos', because as an avid watcher of football (not just 'the greatest league in the world ever ever') I think I have a solution…

Many of the comments I've read on here over the last few weeks have focussed solely on the striker issue. The fact that we have 2 Premier League rookies and 1 over-priced player who rarely featured last season (but still scored a few, mind you). Yes, Berbatov and Keane are huge losses. Not just because they scored most of our goals and are excellent players, but because they have been the creative fulcrum of the team for the last 2 seasons. Every attack went through those two, which is quite strange.

Nearly all of the top European and International sides play through the midfield, with the help of the full-backs to create chances for the strikers. Spurs relied on Berbatov and/or Keane to drop deep in order to make things tick, and that would seriously hinder our ability to attack as a potent force because the balance of the side would be uneven.

Their replacements, Pavlyuchenko and Campbell, as well as Bent, are not creative forwards. They're goalscorers. If the ball goes into the box, they will attack it, that's when they come alive. They just don't have the finesse or skill of Berbatov or Keane so we can’t expect them to play good football outside of the penalty box.


So without those two we've had to adapt to a new system. A system, which I'm all in favour of, where we are essentially being forced to let the midfielders be the creative players in the team, and leave the strikers to do their job when the ball arrives in and around the penalty area. The problem is that we don't have the midfielders who are up for the job. Bentley on the right is perfect for the system. Lennon/Bale or Giovani on the left can play in the system. They will be dangerous and provide untold crosses for Bent/Pavlyuchenko and Campbell to attack. As we saw in Euro 2008, Pavlyuchenko can head a ball. Bent can head a ball. Campbell looks like a poacher.

So it should all be good, right? Why aren't we scoring goals? It's because our central midfield has not assumed the mantle of being the 'bosses' on the pitch. The 2 centre mids need to be at the heart of everything. If the defenders have the ball, they need to demand the ball of the defenders, whether it's a full back or a centre back. If the wingers have the ball, they need to be available in space close to the action. They need to be where the ball is. If we have a throw-in, they need to collect the ball or be close to the action, wherever it is on the pitch.

Far too often last night (and all season) I have seen Jenas/Zokora or Huddlestone shy away from taking control of the game. For all Zokora's endeavour, he doesn't have the best passing range or positional sense. Jenas has the ability to pass, shoot, and tackle to a decent standard. But he doesn’t do it often enough. He is so unbelievably lazy that it's impossible to play him in the middle. The simple answer is that he does not have a 'football brain'. His positional play is terrible, and it always takes him about 4 seconds to decide which pass to make. If you play in centre midfield you need to be sharp. 1 and 2 touch. Quick passing. I think Modric when he comes back can be the answer. He's a playmaker and that's what we've been missing the last 2 games. He just needs a partner in the middle to compliment him.


I seriously believe we are almost there. If we stop playing long, hopeless balls up to Bent (who to his credit flicked it on, but to no-one), and focus on passing the ball through the spine of the team and out to the wingers and full backs to cross the ball, we'll be fine. The reason we had to resort to playing the long ball game last night was because our midfielders were not taking the ball off our defenders and taking control. Zokora was nowhere to be seen and Jenas played just behind the strikers, whilst being marked by 2 Polish defenders

Ramos needs to address the balance of the midfield and tell the team to start closing down as a unit. We sit off teams far too often and give them so much space to play their way round us. It's embarrasing. Play as a unit, play as a team, pass the ball through the midfield. Get crosses in from wide position. Don’t play the long ball. And give jermaine jenas a hard kick up the backside, because if he puts the effort in he could be a good player for us

Believe in the team, cos we are almost there

Bring on Sunday!
 

ParkLaneUpper

Active Member
Feb 6, 2004
210
152
Does anyone think that O'Hara and Modric as a CM partnership would be any good? I would love to see it in action.
 
Dec 6, 2006
11
0
Absolutely agree. I wanna see Modric and O'Hara given a go in the middle. If anyone says, 'oh they're both too lightweight and small', I refer you to the Spanish midfield at euro 2008 and the great Man Utd team of the 90s. Keane and Scholes in the middle. Neither are big men, but both had heart, skill, brains and passion. O'Hara's a tough cookie and Modric, although small can look after himself
 

chrisp

Member
Nov 8, 2004
35
42
I agree with most of what you're saying, but I have to say the biggest thing we need from here to the future is STABILITY.

After yet another offseason of upheaval we've yet again found ourselves with a bad start, and dropped points which could prove crucial in the race for those 4-6 spots we're chasing.
 

RuislipSpur

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2008
1,002
229
Modric and O'Hara is an interesting one, not something i've thought of before. I do like the idea though. O'Hara changed the game when he came on last night, added some steel to a midfield that was seriously lacking in that department. He has the heart and is not afraid to put a foot in.

Hopefully Ramos saw the effect that he had last night and gives him a chance on Sunday. I mean, surely he can't do any worse than the others have been?
 

Byron

Active Member
Aug 10, 2004
1,076
4
o'Hara is pretty under-rated i think. As soon as he plays were a far better side. he can pass as well as anyone, gets stuck in and hassles and gets up and down really well. i agree lets pair him up with modric, in fact pair him up with anyone, he deserve's a run of games at least, he cant do any worse surely!
 

spursLA

Raising the 4th generation
Feb 3, 2005
417
122
Jenas has the ability to pass, shoot, and tackle to a decent standard. But he doesn’t do it often enough. He is so unbelievably lazy that it's impossible to play him in the middle. The simple answer is that he does not have a 'football brain'. His positional play is terrible, and it always takes him about 4 seconds to decide which pass to make. If you play in centre midfield you need to be sharp. 1 and 2 touch. Quick passing. I think Modric when he comes back can be the answer. He's a playmaker and that's what we've been missing the last 2 games. He just needs a partner in the middle to compliment him.

Sorry but i think you're completely wrong about Jenas. He would be my first choice midfielder week in and out. He gets up and down the pitch all game long, can tackle and shoot. I think he and Modric are our best choice in central midfield.

I think the problems we have are two-fold. One, we don't have a settled central defensive partnership and so the central midfielders dont have enough confidence to get forward. Second, we don't have a good outlet, especially if Lennon isn't playing (which he has been doing less of because his development hasn't been what it should).

My solution, for what it's worth, is that we should bite the bullet and let Ledley go and make Woodgate and Corluka our first choice CD partnership and 2, we need to get a specialist and ideally pacy LW.
 

Jules77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2008
1,227
1,284
I have been clamouring for O'Hara to assume the DM role. People are praising Campbell for his energy and hussle when he came on yesterday, but O'Hara does this all the time when he comes on. Excellent short and long ball passer, knows when to pass and can sheild the ball well to look for a layoff pass. doesn't look like a beefy enforcer, but as a terrier i think he can do the job. Alongside Modric I think it is our best bet.

I don't agree that Jenas is lazy, but do agree that he doesn't fit.
 

ibbz

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2004
1,837
951
Agreed.
We need a midfielder who will dictate play, who will DOMINATE the midfield position - as the game last night showed our midfield to be pathetically lacking in anything which could constitute control and cohesion.

Modric is the answer to our attacking play - he is skillful, an excellent all round player BUT we need some one to play alongside him, Zokora is not the answer - for all his energy and zeal he isn't that good a player, such players make good utility squad players, and Zokora to his credit can play to his strengths when up against other creative forwards - such as against Chelsea.
Huddlestone is too slow, and cumbersome, and he lacks the footballing 'brain' the tactical nous and experience/age/wisdom to take up this role.
O'Hara? He isn't makelele (howeevr you spell his name) nor is he quite what I'd term as 'world class' as if we wish o challenge the hegemony of the top 4 we need CLASS players with EXPERIENCE, and even though, I believe O'Hara is an excellent prospect, he isn't quite to the top level yet.

regarding our fowards, yes we lost two superb ones, and two more if you include Defoe and Mido.
Bent? I don't believe he is good enough for Spurs, I like him and wish he could score many many goals and wish he could be a success, but wishing and believing are two different things - I wish we had Mido back, or at least kept him, he seems to be knocking them in for Boro, and Mido IS a better player than Bent!

Yesterday we saw the Polish side playing some pretty football, neat passing movement and possession - whenever Spurs got the ball, players were looking around, waving their arms around, ushering, begging somebody to get into position so they could pass to them, movement was poor, passing was piss poor, it was a shambles, and by some luck we won!
Surely this is down to poor tactics, poor in regards to what takes place on the training field? and surely it means the manager/Coach is at fault? or is it confidence? or are the players simply over rated and not good enough? or a combination of the above?
It cannot be all down to the lack of this one position?? What do you reckon?

Ramos was superb at Sevilla, his team were quick, fluid, organised, tactically brilliant - they gave Jol's Spurs a good hiding in the Cup, and performed brilliantly - thats why I am so shocked and surprised at Ramos' shortcomings this season.

For all those who regret the sacking of Jol, I for one am not with you there. Jol got us 2 5th place finishes, and then went back a few steps at the beginning of last season.
He won NOTHING, 5th place? 11th place? what difference does it make??
Jol threw away important games with his tactical inadequacies, and he was sacked a replaced with a manager with more top class experience and more honours!
yeah yeah, he's top of the Bundesliga, but so what? The Bundesliga isn't quite The EPL nor is it La Liga! And being in charge of Hamburg in Germany is like someone giving you Liverpool or Arsenal to manage in England!

Give Ramos time, if he could do it at Sevilla, surely he can do it now - maybe the present slide is down to not having the exact squad of players Ramos requires, and this is down to chance - as top players want CL teams to play for.

I believe Ramos WILL succeed - perhaps not this season, but possibly next!
 

superspurs

Member
Jun 10, 2003
60
0
"we are almost there" - nearer to being "there" than with the team we had over the last couple of seasons? Not really in my opinion.

I can just about, just about buy into what you say about our strikers, but the fact that you even state yourself "They just don't have the finesse or skill of Berbatov or Keane so we can’t expect them to play good football outside of the penalty box." means that we're effectively down two options when trying to develop play. That is a giant step backwards from last year and plays a major part in why we arent scoring many goals, even if Bent is around to poke home rebounds and such.

I can't get on board with what you've said about our central midfield. Jenas surely cannot be accused of being "unbelievably" lazy, he's probably the one player in our team who covers the most ground every week. Anyone at the Villa game who says Jenas didnt come on and orchestrate our play must have fallen asleep during the shocking football we were playing beforehand.

Zokora does have his absolutely shocking moments most notably simple passes and shooting, but lets not forget that these two were in the centre of midfield when we finished 5th (for the second time) and won the League Cup.

When it comes to Modric im struggling to see why everyone has pinpointed him as the dominant creative midfielder we apparently are crying out for. Someone please tell me where the confidence comes from because in the games he's seen I havent seen anything worthwhile except for effort. I'm not gona keep that assessment as concrete as we are only a handful of games into the season and he needs time but i scratch my head when I hear people championing him. Is it because he played at the euros? A competition where average players make careers for themselves with 3 or 4 performances? His price tag clearly isnt an accurate indicator (correct me please if im wrong darren), or was it his performances in the friendlies - not even close to competitive football. Either way i think everyone should reserve opinion before moving a relative veteran like Jenas out of the equation.

We are not any nearer to doing anything than we were lsat year, if anything we've taken a few (possibly giant, only time will tell) steps backwards.
 

liewser

Member
Oct 14, 2004
315
5
Absolutely agree. I wanna see Modric and O'Hara given a go in the middle. If anyone says, 'oh they're both too lightweight and small', I refer you to the Spanish midfield at euro 2008 and the great Man Utd team of the 90s. Keane and Scholes in the middle. Neither are big men, but both had heart, skill, brains and passion. O'Hara's a tough cookie and Modric, although small can look after himself

Comparing scholes and keane to modric and ohara is possibly the most ridiculous thing i've read on this site. ever. The ONLY attribute they share is their height, and if anything keane and scholes are taller but either way thats about it.

If keane was still in his prime ohara would probably break down crying just having to line up against him in the tunnel.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
I never criticise fellow Spurs fans who think about the game and our team and try to analyse our situation and try to plot a way out of our current temporary problems.
O'hara is agood player as you describe but I dont feel that he is the answer in the long term,basically he lacks the skill to make it at the top level where I hope we are heading.As a temporary addition of 'bite ' in the midfield he has a role to play.
Huddleston certainly has a football brain as do Jenas and Modric and these three can do the midfield work you outline.Jenas is our most hardworking player according to all the statistics and to call him 'lazy' is just wrong.
I think that Ramos intends us to play through the midfield with overlapping fullbacks to provide width,but the team and the system needs time to gel.The problem with five or six new players each season is the lack of continuity in the team which in part explains our poor starts.
You say that we are 'almost there' but apart from giving Jenas a 'kick up the arse' I'm not clear how we make the final step. Keep the ball on the ground,yes,and play through the midfield,yes.This is what we did in pre-season but the sudden onslaught of the Premier League season has thrown us off course.A win tomorrow and against Newcastle on Wednesday and everyone will be asking what all the fuss was about.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
you were doing ok then you started having a go at our best mid - jj - so then you lost me :)
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,903
81,489
Good post but like others have said singling out our best midfielder isn't a good way to go.
 

antlesh

Active Member
Dec 19, 2006
517
72
Did anyone notice when we stopped playing the "Tottenham way" towards the end of the Wilsa game and we started hoofing it up field from DM position we looked a lot more dangerous!!

We have to maximise the best attributes of our strikers we now have a situation where we have a striker who is no Berbatov in terms of skill that killer ball.

However Bent is quick and can finish! It was the same with Defoe he never fit in to the Tottenham style of play in the end. so I think as a quick fix to get some points on the board we will have to adapt our midfield to suit our strikers. What do you think?
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
I'v never had any problem with the long ball - there's a lot of mythology about the 'tottenham way' that I don't buy into

to me long balls, long passes, crosses are all vital parts of the game

in the 60s Pat Jennings often hoofed it long - he even scored once from it

and one of the greatest ever spurs goals came from jennings punting it up to the halfway line - greaves controlling it like it a magician, turning on the proverbial sixpence and running through the leicester defence before puttin it past shilton

the early 60s team got loads of goals from crosses - there was nothing particularly elegant about a lot of bobby smith's work -

admittedly I'm moving a little away from the original point - but it's just all too easy to think Spurs have won their trophies by playing pretty short passing football on the ground - that's just a part of it

who can forget hod's classic route one goal - punt by keeper - flick on and hod with a stunning volley (forest I think - ok might have forgotten that bit :)

back to the 60s, punt by jennings, flick on gilly, couple of touches then 'bam' in the net by jg v pool in fa cup
 

antlesh

Active Member
Dec 19, 2006
517
72
haha the glory days!!!! Nice to think about it before our relagation clash today!
 
Sep 18, 2005
876
2
I'm sorry but your article seemed quite intelligent at the beginning and then it completely tailed off when you started going on about JJ being lazy, that is just plain and simple rubbish, look at the stats.

He may not be 'World Class' but recently he has been our best midfielder.

It's boring when people slate JJ and to some extent Zokora without basing it on anything substantial.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
HI DC. We scored from a long ball on Thursday but its not astyle I like to watch for any length of time.Ramos has stocked us on the whole with skilful,young and creative players:Giovani,Bentley,Modric to add to our existing stock of Jenas,Bale,Gunter and Lennon,so I assume he intends us to play through the midfield rather than over it.Of course the long ball can be effective but Bent or Pavlyuchenko dont seem to possess the ball control to profit. We would be better to allow our full backs overlap to provide width and rely more on crosses as you say but play through the midfield first.
Our best move of the night which ended in a wrong offside decision to rob Bent of another goal showed that we can keep the ball on the ground , pass quickly and attack with purpose in the Tottenham way.If we are not 'Spurs,good to watch we are nothing'
 
Top