What do we think of Poch?

[VegasII]

his Gilet wearing is at an appropriate level

THFC Managerial Gilet-O-Meter

 

[225]

Levy has been our chairman since 2001

Since then our average league position is 8th

7th, actually. It was 11th in the 10 seasons prior to that, under Sugar.

In the 80's our average was between 6th and 7th.

We've had 9 different managers

It's actually 8 (Hoddle; Santini; Jol; Ramos; Redknapp; AVB; Sherwood; Poch). It's a stretch to count Sherwood, and Santini bottled it within a month or two.

We have won 1 (one) trophy since he became chairman 14 years ago

As opposed to all the master tacticians winning trophies as Chairman. Look at all the trophies Sunderland won under Niall Quinn! Wowser.

None of anything you listed there has an impact on him knowing about football - success is more about business acumen than football knowledge.

...Unless of course you're suggesting that if Levy knew about Football he'd be the manager and winning trophies.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I don't remember us winning the league last year, or indeed frequently, so that's what the comparison is there.

Neither had Moyes.

This thread is interesting, on the eve of the most important 6 weeks of this season. Spurs' entire outcome of the PL season may be decided within the next 6 weeks. Equally, I believe a lot of fans will provide their final verdict on Poch mid-March, for better or worse. I've seen enough to entertain the idea that we can handle the next 6 weeks gracefully, but I expect a rather underwhelming period.

For those who don't understand what I'm referring to, here are our next opponents in PL:
Arsenal – Liverpool – West Ham – Swansea – Manchester United

All who are convinced Pochettinoers better hope this string of matches runs fairly well.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I do not think we will ever, as a whole, be happy with any manager.

Ever.

We'll turn at the drop of a hat

 

[225]

Neither had Moyes.

This thread is interesting, on the eve of the most important 6 weeks of this season. Spurs' entire outcome of the PL season may be decided within the next 6 weeks. Equally, I believe a lot of fans will provide their final verdict on Poch mid-March, for better or worse. I've seen enough to entertain the idea that we can handle the next 6 weeks gracefully, but I expect a rather underwhelming period.

For those who don't understand what I'm referring to, here are our next opponents in PL:
Arsenal – Liverpool – West Ham – Swansea – Manchester United

All who are convinced Pochettinoers better hope this string of matches runs fairly well.

He was performing poorly only as Man Utd manager. My mate is a Utd fan, and I pulled together a lot of details at the time to show that Moyes was actually achieving well by his own standards.

Similarly, if Ancelotti managed us to a 4th place finish he would have had a poor season - but we would have had a good season. Moyes got stick for not challenging for the title when, for the most part, LVG has been no better until very recently, and he got nigh on £150m to spend.


As for the next run in of games, it'll be pretty defining. If we can do anything but lose to Arse then we'll be right up there in contention for 3rd still - if we lose, we'll be at the mercy of our top 4 rivals. It's a few weeks of 6 pointers in essence, with a cup final on the cusp of it just to make it worse - although it's nice to have a cup final!

 

[jambreck]

Firing off abuse

Whatever!!

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence....


Levy has been our chairman since 2001

Since then our average league position is 8th

We've had 9 different managers

We have won 1 (one) trophy since he became chairman 14 years ago

He has done a fantastic job for ENIC and its shareholders. He has run our club financially very well

He's made more mistakes in regards to the football team than I care to mention......

- Average league position is a meaningless stat - especially when given no context.

- Levy's turnover of managers is par for the course in England (and less prolific by comparison to continental clubs). The likes of Ferguson at Utd and Wenger at Arsenal are outliers and not representative.

- We have won one trophy in an era in which it has never been more difficult to win trophies - because there is now a cabal of super wealthy clubs that virtually monopolises silverware.

- He's made plenty of football related mistakes (who hasn't?) but he's also made plenty of very good football related decisions. The club wouldn't otherwise have become an established top six perennial under his stewardship having previously been an established mid to lower table perennial under the previous owner.

 

[SteveH]

All managers are a few weeks away from the sack look at Klopp.
Poch needs to keep his head down and carry on as is.
Pleasantly surprised so far......

 

[The Spurs Lad]

Nope.

It is well documented that he resigned. He admitted as much himself.

It's quite possible that Levy would have sacked him at the end of the season but it was perfectly apparent that he did not want to sack him at that particular time.

Hahaha, sorry but do you think he'd come out and say "I was told leave or be sacked" Don't be so naive

 

[jambreck]

Hahaha, sorry but do you think he'd come out and say "I was told leave or be sacked" Don't be so naive

It's got eff all to do with naivety, fella. It's merely based on all the available evidence.

I think that AVB has no trouble saying exactly what he wants to say after leaving a club where he failed to deliver - just as he did after leaving Chelsea.

All the itk at the time suggested that AVB was fed up with not getting the players he wanted at Spurs (regardless that the players he wanted weren't always realistic). He felt that the job of Spurs manager in reality was not as it had been advertised. And reports suggest that he finally snapped, feeling undermined, when Levy tried to suggest ways of reintegrating Adebayor into the team.

The subsequent announcement of AVB's departure from Spurs talked of "mutual" consent and, more tellingly, Spurs being "forced" to search for a new manager. Later, reports in the UK and Portuguese press by journalists well connected with AVB, added weight to the story that he left of his own accord (or at least by mutual consent).

I suspect, in fact, that if any party was being economical with the truth, it was Spurs. They would rather have waited until the end of the season before waving goodbye to AVB.

Anyway, this is all a long way from the real subject of this thread, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Khilari]

Err...........no, we're not!

In terms of results and consistency, we're right up there on current form - Crystal Palace away being the only blip over the past two months.

To the extent that we don't look like making top four, it's that our overall performances are still too often unconvincing and rely on moments of individual magic.

Yes, agree - it's the overall performances that I think worries me the most, but more so that our inconsistency is 'consistent' and doesn't seem to be improving, but we are grinding out wins here and there with occasional brilliant performances thrown in. My main problem is that the teams around us are improving.

I worry that Liverpool are now hitting form and looking a good side, particularly with the likes of Sturridge back and Sterling and Coutinho firing on all cylinders. Southampton just keep playing well, and though they lost most recently, they seem to an ability to go on runs. Man Utd have thrown so much money at the team that despite playing really rather poorly, have enough class to win enough games to probably make the CL places. And finally Arsen*l, well they basically always make the top 4 and I'm sure they'll hit form at the business end of the season and get in there.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

7th, actually. It was 11th in the 10 seasons prior to that, under Sugar.

In the 80's our average was between 6th and 7th.



It's actually 8 (Hoddle; Santini; Jol; Ramos; Redknapp; AVB; Sherwood; Poch). It's a stretch to count Sherwood, and Santini bottled it within a month or two.



As opposed to all the master tacticians winning trophies as Chairman. Look at all the trophies Sunderland won under Niall Quinn! Wowser.

None of anything you listed there has an impact on him knowing about football - success is more about business acumen than football knowledge.

...Unless of course you're suggesting that if Levy knew about Football he'd be the manager and winning trophies.

Since Levy has been chairman our average league position is 8th

Since Levy has been Chairman we have had 9 managers

Get your facts right son

 

[225]

Since Levy has been chairman our average league position is 8th

Since Levy has been Chairman we have had 9 managers

Get your facts right son

It's not my facts that are the problem. If you're talking about George Graham and that season, you'll find that Alan Sugar owned the club for 90% of that season and David Buchler sacked Graham, with Levy not taking over as chairman until the October of the following season:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2001/oct/17/newsstory.sport

If you can't see the improvement made under ENIC then you're beyond helping, as players are now choosing the club for the facilities they've invested in, a new stadium is being constructed using their money, and the stability in top 6 finishes has come after the work that they've put into rebuilding the club after the awful leadership of Sugar and Venables.

What this has to do with Pochettino I don't know, but you've yet to provide any facts or evidence that "levy doesn't know a thing about football"

 

[jambreck]

Since Levy has been chairman our average league position is 8th

Since Levy has been Chairman we have had 9 managers

Get your facts right son

Why are you persisting with this average league position argument?

If judgements must be made on the basis of average league positions, then it's only useful to do so over a relatively short time span - 5 years, say (it's how UEFA calculates club coefficients, after all).

And over the past five years, our average league position is 5th (4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th = ave 4.8).

Given the competition, 5th isn't bad at all.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Why are you persisting with this average league position argument?

If judgements must be made on the basis of average league positions, then it's only useful to do so over a relatively short time span - 5 years, say (it's how UEFA calculates club coefficients, after all).

And over the past five years, our average league position is 5th (4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th = ave 4.8).

Given the competition, 5th isn't bad at all.

Yes I'm extremely interested in the UEFA coefficient

How about Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur and our trophy cabinet?

 

[southlondonyiddo]

It's not my facts that are the problem. If you're talking about George Graham and that season, you'll find that Alan Sugar owned the club for 90% of that season and David Buchler sacked Graham, with Levy not taking over as chairman until the October of the following season:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2001/oct/17/newsstory.sport

If you can't see the improvement made under ENIC then you're beyond helping, as players are now choosing the club for the facilities they've invested in, a new stadium is being constructed using their money, and the stability in top 6 finishes has come after the work that they've put into rebuilding the club after the awful leadership of Sugar and Venables.

What this has to do with Pochettino I don't know, but you've yet to provide any facts or evidence that "levy doesn't know a thing about football"

Congratulations you have successfully proved that Alan Sugar was an even worse Chairman than Daniel Levy in the footballing sense. They have both won the same number of trophies ie 2 (two) in 23 years but Levys Tottenham on average finish 8th as opposed to Sugars Tottenham finishing 11th

Unfortunately for me (due to emotional blackmail, and my bloodline!) I have had a season ticket for all those 23 years and have witness all that glory home, lots away and twice at Wembley

What has happened to Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur and our Trophy Cabinet?

 

[jambreck]

Yes I'm extremely interested in the UEFA coefficient

How about Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur and our trophy cabinet?

Ooooh! Sarcasm!

Fair enough.....you didn't like my post.

So stop spouting nonsense about average league finishes then!

 

[225]

What has happened to Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur and our Trophy Cabinet?

Chelsea and Man City with bought titles, basically.

FFP would never allow another team to be 'bought' in the same way again, and we don't generate enough income to compete with Arsenal, Utd, Chelsea or City on the wages/transfers front.

We're a stadium away from glory and long term stability, and the harsh fact is that it's taken 10 years to buy 99.9% of the land and get approval to redevelop - the sooner the better.

As with anything, it's all about patience. We're in a good place right now and we just need to wait for it all to settle in a bit - good manager, great facilities, great scouting setup and a club full of young potential.

 

[UpTownSpur]

I'm delighted with the way he's gone about things. He's the first manager in a long time who's had a genuine long term strategy and is trying to build something for the future. Too many of our managers in the recent past have bought in players for a short term fix, building teams from season to season, being over tolerant of players with poor attitudes and it's great to see these being rooted out of the club. A serious club should never give lengthy contracts to players like BAE and Adebayor, they will always cause trouble at some point.

Together with Levy it seems they have finally realised the only way we can achieve SUSTAINABLE long term success is by developing youth players and buying players for reasonable fees at the right age, rather than wasting money on the likes of Soldado and Paulinho.

I'm confident we can make a real challenge for the top 4 next season even if we fall short of it this one.

 

[Samson]

It's got eff all to do with naivety, fella. It's merely based on all the available evidence.

I think that AVB has no trouble saying exactly what he wants to say after leaving a club where he failed to deliver - just as he did after leaving Chelsea.

All the itk at the time suggested that AVB was fed up with not getting the players he wanted at Spurs (regardless that the players he wanted weren't always realistic). He felt that the job of Spurs manager in reality was not as it had been advertised. And reports suggest that he finally snapped, feeling undermined, when Levy tried to suggest ways of reintegrating Adebayor into the team.

The subsequent announcement of AVB's departure from Spurs talked of "mutual" consent and, more tellingly, Spurs being "forced" to search for a new manager. Later, reports in the UK and Portuguese press by journalists well connected with AVB, added weight to the story that he left of his own accord (or at least by mutual consent).

I suspect, in fact, that if any party was being economical with the truth, it was Spurs. They would rather have waited until the end of the season before waving goodbye to AVB.

Anyway, this is all a long way from the real subject of this thread, so I'll leave it at that.

This would be true if the club hadn't thought that Tim could stop the rot against the sides above us. No way you can ship 4 or 5 repeatedly without getting sacked.

 

[jambreck]

What has happened to Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur and our Trophy Cabinet?

What do you mean, exactly? We've regularly endured barren spells in our history - at times, considerably longer than the current one (despite English football having been far more open back then). It was only, respectively, in the early 60's, early 70's and early 80's that we managed to win trophies in clusters.

The reality is that it is now far more difficult to win a trophy than it was back in the day. The Champions League elite and the financially doped clubs have seen to that. During the past 14 years since ENIC took over, 12 different English clubs have won at least one of the three major domestic trophies. In the 14 years before that, 15 different English clubs won at least one of the three major domestic trophies. In the 14 years before that, 18 different English clubs won at least one of the three major domestic trophies.

And, just for good measure (since you specifically refer to Glory, Glory Tottenham Hotspur), during the 14 years between the Double season and Billy Nick resigning as Spurs manager, 20 different English clubs won one of the three major domestic trophies.

What has happened to Glory, Glory? It's more elusive and fleeting than it ever was.

But we still reach for it.