What exactly does a DoF have to do to get sacked?

[doubledecker]

True - but accounting deals with income as well. A gross figure can be misleading, but a net spend reduced by our outgoings is more indicative of the total progression of the club.

It's blinkered to just focus on his fee. The reason for it was an inflated market (7/8 million for Mido??!?), he's English and a striker. And a bloody good one at that.

And as SS57 said, it's planned out over years with add-ons all over the place.

It's like people yelling and screaming about Dawson and Reid costing us £8m - when in fact they cost us £1m each up front. We easily made that back on Reidy, and Dawson at a maximum of £4m? Snip.

Look at the price we paid for Jenas - English players (and those with a cap or two - unlike Lennon who was an unknown quantity to most) - they go for more money, it's just the trend. The money we got for Carrick was outrageous too.

And. To be perfectly honest, if West Ham had got him, how many of you would have been saying things like: "we never push the boat out for players", "we never put our hands in our pockets" and "Levy is a tight **** - spend our Carrick money".

So you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't really, with some.




Bent hasn't been rubbish so far, in fact he's had better games than Berbatov has this year. He offers something different to ShiftAndShoot and Keano. And actually plays on the last man. You've seen with the goals he's scored that he's a predator - and given a stretch of games he'll show that. You don't score the number of Premiership goals in that poor a team [Charlton] for no reason.

Torres is class - but comparing him isn't ridiculous. Bent's a proven Prem goalscorer - Torres isn't. Yet.

I don't believe that Bent has had any more impact in the matches he has played than say Helder Postiga. In fact the way he fails to convert 1 on 1 situations with the keeper reminds me of our former Portuguese hope. The miss against the Scummers at 1-2 with 5 minutes left was the ultimate.

Too right you can't compare Bent with Torres. One is class. The other is a journeyman pro. Do I need to say which is which ?

15-16m was a complete waste of money. Bent along with Kaboul are symbols of our season thus far.Limited ability, no confidence. I bet if you asked Ramos who he would have preferred , Kanoute or Bent , he wouldn't have to think too hard.

 

[themanwhofellasleep]

I am not saying that Bent is an appalling player, simply that so far this year he looks like an average Premiership striker worth £7-8 million. When you consider that Everton paid £11 for Yakubu, who has scored 62 goals in 93 Premiership appearances, it puts Bent into perspective. Yes, he's English, but we weren't obliged to buy an English striker (or any striker at all, to be fair). But this isn't about Bent.

My feeling overall is that Jol wanted to buy a certain type of player (experienced) in certain positions (midfield, left-wing) and Comolli just ignored him and bought young, "full of potential" glamour signings. The net result of which is that Jol is sacked and Comolli is still in a job. I'm not blaming everything on Comolli, but I am hoping that Ramos has significantly more input in buying and selling players from now on.

 

[Supersonic]

Surely that's the whole point of the coach/DOF set up so that if one goes the other is there to offer the continuity and stability.

Yer thats true. OK maybe its more realistic if the team is still not getting results when a DOFs signings are settled. By the time Ramos is being considered for sacking, which Im guessing is 2years from now (it always is) if Comollis signings are not showing the returns then he has had his time and we need a new DOF.

I think it should be tied with the managers fate to a certain extent becaus the two of them work together, and I just dont like the ridiculous way that Comolli can sit there smirking as his 'prospects' fail to achieve anything. Not that Im saying they will, but so far this season.

And I am totally confident that bent will come good

 

[SpurSince57]

I don't believe that Bent has had any more impact in the matches he has played than say Helder Postiga. In fact the way he fails to convert 1 on 1 situations with the keeper reminds me of our former Portuguese hope. The miss against the Scummers at 1-2 with 5 minutes left was the ultimate.

Too right you can't compare Bent with Torres. One is class. The other is a journeyman pro. Do I need to say which is which ?

15-16m was a complete waste of money. Bent along with Kaboul are symbols of our season thus far.Limited ability, no confidence. I bet if you asked Ramos who he would have preferred , Kanoute or Bent , he wouldn't have to think too hard.

A faintly ludicrous comparison. Actually, just plain ludicrous. Bent has already scored five goals. Remind me, how many did Postiga manage in his entire Spurs career? As far as on-target chances converted goes, Bent has managed three from six in the league, the best ratio of all our strikers. Actually, that's as good as St. Jermaine's penalty conversion rate. It's rather better than Torres' six from 18, and their shooting accuracy is pretty much on a par. He passes better than Torres. He's made one assist as opposed to two and created nine goal attempts as opposed to 12. Not bad, considering he's had far less time on the pitch and we haven't exactly been playing to his strengths.

Now, agreed, stats aren't everything, but they do help to give the lie to crap. I happen to think Torres is a very good player indeed, and on the ball he can be outstanding, but there have been several games in which he's been pretty ho-hum; when we played Liverpool he did pretty much fuck all for 90 minutes before popping up to score their equaliser. And he cost £25m.

Of course, if Darren Bent had been Darreno Bento and scored his goals in Spain or Italy there would be no talk of his fee being ridiculous. It just strikes me that there are some on here who are actually pleased he hasn't set the world on fire.

 

[Stoof]

I don't believe that Bent has had any more impact in the matches he has played than say Helder Postiga. In fact the way he fails to convert 1 on 1 situations with the keeper reminds me of our former Portuguese hope. The miss against the Scummers at 1-2 with 5 minutes left was the ultimate.

What about the two one-on-one chances he's scored from? Not to mention already doubling Postiga's total in what - 10 games?

What about Berbatov's open goal miss against the Scummers? Surely the more critical misssstake at 1-0 up?

Too right you can't compare Bent with Torres. One is class. The other is a journeyman pro. Do I need to say which is which ?

15-16m was a complete waste of money. Bent along with Kaboul are symbols of our season thus far.Limited ability, no confidence. I bet if you asked Ramos who he would have preferred , Kanoute or Bent , he wouldn't have to think too hard.

If you watched Torres, what 2 weeks ago? He had 10 chances. And scored 0. He's young. In fact they are both the same fucking age. "Journeyman pro" at 23? You're just wrong and plain out of your depth.

And Bent or Kanoute - in the League alone - Kanoute scored 39 over 5 seasons for West Ham and us - Bent has 32 in 2 season + the 3 goals he has at the start of this.

Hmmm striker with 39 in 5 seasons vs. 35 in 2 and a bit seasons. Not to mention Kanoute is 30.

HMMMM LET ME THINK!!!

 

[yanno]

The other point about Bent is that at Charlton, the whole team was set up to provide chances for him. Curbishley would keep it tight, and then when possession was won, their midfield players would look for Bent making the run behind the defence and play it early.

In fact, when Danny Murphy was played in a 4-5-1 for Charlton, he had the quality to put Bent in time and time again, and looked such a good creative midfielder that we were suckered into buying him for a 4-4-2 system. And as we know, Murphy struggled to find a position in Jol's 4-4-2.

Exactly the same happened to Man Utd flop Diego Forlan when he moved to Villarreal and had the incredible good fortune to find one Juan Roman Riquelme playing the ACM role. Um, Riquelme is like a million trillion times better than Murphy, so Man Utd flop Forlan got lots of chances, ended up top scorer in La Liga and nearly got a move to Barca.

My point is that because Bent is fairly one dimensional, the team has to play to his strengths for him to be effective. I still think given time on the training field, Ramos will be able to get our players to win the ball, look up, and if Bent can run in behind, play him in. However, because Bent will not create chances himself with pure individual skill (something Berba and Keano can do), he will look limited until Ramos gets them sorted.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The other point about Bent is that at Charlton, the whole team was set up to provide chances for him. Curbishley would keep it tight, and then when possession was won, their midfield players would look for Bent making the run behind the defence and play it early.

In fact, when Danny Murphy was played in a 4-5-1 for Charlton, he had the quality to put Bent in time and time again, and looked such a good creative midfielder that we were suckered into buying him for a 4-4-2 system. And as we know, Murphy struggled to find a position in Jol's 4-4-2.

Exactly the same happened to Man Utd flop Diego Forlan when he moved to Villarreal and had the incredible good fortune to find one Juan Roman Riquelme playing the ACM role. Um, Riquelme is like a million trillion times better than Murphy, so Man Utd flop Forlan got lots of chances, ended up top scorer in La Liga and nearly got a move to Barca.

My point is that because Bent is fairly one dimensional, the team has to play to his strengths for him to be effective. I still think given time on the training field, Ramos will be able to get our players to win the ball, look up, and if Bent can run in behind, play him in. However, because Bent will not create chances himself with pure individual skill (something Berba and Keano can do), he will look limited until Ramos gets them sorted.

Didn't do Charlton alot of good, building there team and style of play around Bent did it. Can't see it taking us to the CL can you ?

They weren't exactly great to watch either.

Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[yanno]

Didn't do Charlton alot of good, building there team and style of play around Bent did it. Can't see it taking us to the CL can you ?

They weren't exactly great to watch either.

Thanks, but no thanks.

B-C - good one! Yup, my entire argument is that I want Spurs to buy Danny Murphy back and play like Curbishley's Charlton.

But I'm a patient man. So, one more time.

Bent likes to play on the shoulder of the last defender, looking for through balls behind the defence so he can use his pace to get in one-on-one against the keeper. Jenas, and Zokora in particular, are seemingly incapable of looking up and playing the early through ball. So, Bent has no service. If Ramos buys players who can release Bent, then we'll see how useful a weapon he is for us. If Ramos can't get such players in, then he's better off sticking with Berba and Keano who will at least create chances for themselves, and Bent will be out the door.

But I'll tell you what. If we'd signed Riquelme, Darren Bent would have been in Seventh Heaven because he'd be getting 3 or 4 one-on-ones every game of the season. And then we would have learnt quite how good a finisher he really is. At the moment, we have no real idea.

 

[joey55]

The other point about Bent is that at Charlton, the whole team was set up to provide chances for him. Curbishley would keep it tight, and then when possession was won, their midfield players would look for Bent making the run behind the defence and play it early.

In fact, when Danny Murphy was played in a 4-5-1 for Charlton, he had the quality to put Bent in time and time again, and looked such a good creative midfielder that we were suckered into buying him for a 4-4-2 system. And as we know, Murphy struggled to find a position in Jol's 4-4-2.

Exactly the same happened to Man Utd flop Diego Forlan when he moved to Villarreal and had the incredible good fortune to find one Juan Roman Riquelme playing the ACM role. Um, Riquelme is like a million trillion times better than Murphy, so Man Utd flop Forlan got lots of chances, ended up top scorer in La Liga and nearly got a move to Barca.

My point is that because Bent is fairly one dimensional, the team has to play to his strengths for him to be effective. I still think given time on the training field, Ramos will be able to get our players to win the ball, look up, and if Bent can run in behind, play him in. However, because Bent will not create chances himself with pure individual skill (something Berba and Keano can do), he will look limited until Ramos gets them sorted.

I actually think we are already doing that and it is part of the problem (though actually there isn't a problem as Bents strike rate is fine), rather than the solution. When Bent is on the field our players definitely have a tendancy to try and play balls over the top. I think because they are actively looking for it, it becomes predictable. I think it was an option that was missing from our games last season and perhaps we've tried to over compensate for it. During pre season it was defintiely our most effective form of attack and Bent and the Hudd combined very well a few times (2 goals came via the Hudd playing over the top to Bent).

 

[Bus-Conductor]

B-C - good one! Yup, my entire argument is that I want Spurs to buy Danny Murphy back and play like Curbishley's Charlton.

But I'm a patient man. So, one more time.

Bent likes to play on the shoulder of the last defender, looking for through balls behind the defence so he can use his pace to get in one-on-one against the keeper. Jenas, and Zokora in particular, are seemingly incapable of looking up and playing the early through ball. So, Bent has no service. If Ramos buys players who can release Bent, then we'll see how useful a weapon he is for us. If Ramos can't get such players in, then he's better off sticking with Berba and Keano who will at least create chances for themselves, and Bent will be out the door.

But I'll tell you what. If we'd signed Riquelme, Darren Bent would have been in Seventh Heaven because he'd be getting 3 or 4 one-on-ones every game of the season. And then we would have learnt quite how good a finisher he really is. At the moment, we have no real idea.

I still don't rate Bent particularly, even as the type of player he is. I would much rather have Anelka who has the same ability to make runs but offers much better technique and team worth.

 

[SpurSince57]

And yet. B-C, you'd have been happy for us to sign the Emmerdale Eminem, hard-working but singularly lacking in that rather essential element for a striker, the ability to score goals, or an older version of Mido in the form of Viduka.

 

[Legend10]

take penalties out of the equation and Bent is statistically our most dangerous player in the Premiership averaging a goal every 180 minutes which is excellent by anybodys standards, let alone for a player who has had no chance to get a rhythm.

 

[stemark44]

I still don't rate Bent particularly, even as the type of player he is. I would much rather have Anelka who has the same ability to make runs but offers much better technique and team worth.

Team worth,are you losing your mind?If there was ever a player who played just for himself,it is without doubt Anelka.
Have you seen the chances that he has missed recently?
I have a young lad at 14 who would have buried them!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Team worth,are you losing your mind?If there was ever a player who played just for himself,it is without doubt Anelka.
Have you seen the chances that he has missed recently?
I have a young lad at 14 who would have buried them!

That's a coincidence because I have a 14yo daughter who knows more about football than you.

These 14 yo prodigies eh ? go fucking figure.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

take penalties out of the equation and Bent is statistically our most dangerous player in the Premiership averaging a goal every 180 minutes which is excellent by anybodys standards, let alone for a player who has had no chance to get a rhythm.

Don't make the mistake of taking personal stats over team ones. Are we winning ? Are we creating enough quality chances. Are the strikers retaining possession or losing it and putting prtessure on the rest of the team. How did Charlton do as a team with the "prolific" bent.

Bent had an identical goals per minute ratio at Charlton despite always being first choice as Defoe did at spurs last year despite playing in fits and starts.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

And yet. B-C, you'd have been happy for us to sign the Emmerdale Eminem, hard-working but singularly lacking in that rather essential element for a striker, the ability to score goals, or an older version of Mido in the form of Viduka.

That's right SS, Anelka, Viduka, Torres, Kanoute, Baptista are all shit and Mido and Bent are brilliant.

Who the fuck did you suck off to win "most knowledgeable poster"

 

[SpurSince57]

Have you been at the sauce again?

Baptista? When did he come into the equation? I take it that you mean the Baptista that virtually every Gooner was writing off as a complete donkey last season. For the very good reason that he was a complete donkey. He's been shit for Real this season.

Viduka was total shite for Boro for half of last season. Even when he got his arse together after Christmas (at which point Yakubu did his traditional transformation into shit) he was frequently pants. I don't think I've ever described Torres or Anelka as 'shit'. You, on the other hand, happily described a striker who comprehensively outscored Kanouté and provided quite as many assists as 'shit'. But, hey, you write off Robinson as shit, proving that you know far more than Eriksson, Jol, Ramos, Wilson, Clem, et al. We all enjoy the deep tactical insights that demonstrate your superiority over Jol and now, apparently, over Ramos. I mean, what do those tossers know compared to you?

Please refrain from abuse. I do it far better than you do.

 

[dannythomas]

[/b]What about the two one-on-one chances he's scored from? Not to mention already doubling Postiga's total in what - 10 games?

What about Berbatov's open goal miss against the Scummers? Surely the more critical misssstake at 1-0 up?



If you watched Torres, what 2 weeks ago? He had 10 chances. And scored 0. He's young. In fact they are both the same fucking age. "Journeyman pro" at 23? You're just wrong and plain out of your depth.

And Bent or Kanoute - in the League alone - Kanoute scored 39 over 5 seasons for West Ham and us - Bent has 32 in 2 season + the 3 goals he has at the start of this.

Hmmm striker with 39 in 5 seasons vs. 35 in 2 and a bit seasons. Not to mention Kanoute is 30.

HMMMM LET ME THINK!!!

No Mr Stoof , it is Mr Bent who is out of his depth. Are you honestly trying to say he has been impressive in his appearances this season ? 3 goals ? Fantastic. Indications are that he is a typical example of a player that looks good in a poor team with no big name players ( hence his 32 goals ) but cannot make the step up. Think Alan Brazil, Jason Dozzell, Sean Davis , Chris Armstrong, Oyvind Leonardsen, Steffen Iversen, Wayne Routledge, Andy Reid . Big fish in small ponds. Small fry in the big world.

To say that Bent is more proven than Torres is absurd. The Premier League is not the only League in the world. It is just as hard if not harder to shine in La Liga , yet the Kanoute you scorn ( who was by far our best player in his first season with us ) has excelled in a Sevilla team now looking good in the CL. Regrets he left us ? Sure, I bet he does . Cl or a relegation dogfight ? Then there are people like you who think that he is a poor player.

Now I happen to think that at a sensible price (5-7m ) Bent was worth taking on board as 4th striker. I think it is comical how you and SS57 say it's ok, we can pay in instalments which somehow means it didn't really cost 15m ! Our outgoing transfers are also received in instalments ( Carrick, Mido etc ) but do you write that Carrick was only really sold for 3m or whatever because that was Manure's downpayment ? No of course not. Like it or not the cold hard truth is that we are in a relegation battle and that is in part down to wasting 15m on a striker who shall we kindly say has not set the Lane alight since his arrival . Since we do not have infinite funds it is logical that his signing precluded a couple of others - an experienced central defender and a real ball winner in midfield which were much more necessary..

 

[Gazza123]

At a guess perhaps to get sacked he would have to sleep with levys wife.lol

 

[batigol]

Funny how a question on DOF can progress into mudslinging fest about strikers from all over.

For me, the continental set-up is all about team work between DOF and head coach. It worked fine between Arnesen and Jol but not well between Jol and Comolli. Now that Comolli ousted Jol to get the person he thinks he can work with in, the results will relate to whether he has made the right choice and if not, Levy won't hesitate to oust both Comolli and Jol this time round. I think if Comolli and Ramos can work things out between them then they have every chance of succeeding.