What our opponents' fans are saying

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by ajspurs, Dec 20, 2011.

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  1. StartingPrice

    StartingPrice Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

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    We've finished above them 6 seasons out of the last seven. We have finished top four in three of the last seven seasons, they have managed it once. We have finished lower than fifth once in the last seven seasons, sixth; they have finished higher than sixth once, including two seventh and two eighth placed finishes. That suggests our team is better than theirs. We may not have beaten them for a while - but they regularly beat United while United were winning a succession of trophies - so that don't mean much.

    We are likely to improve due to a further years' maturity, a further years' experience, a further years' cohesion, and a strategically improved squad. We are ahead in our manager's project. With no reference to them at all, I expect us to improve. So, the question to me is will Klopp, facing a set of challenges he never faced in Germany, with a (relatively) weaker club, poorer squad and poorer youth set-up, and still, at best, half-proven in the BPL, not only improve them to catch up with the amount we were ahead of them last season, but also the improvement I expect us to make this summer?

    I can't say he will, and I can't say he won't. But I have guarded optimism. Liverpool just haven't been that good for a while, aside from one Suarez-inspired season, and I am not sure that Klopp and his methods will prove to be so much better than the several teams who are richer, or better than they have been for a while, who are also working to improve this summer. He is not in the relatively poor German league, with the second best team and a hell of a youth set-up, now. He is at a much more competitive, much less deferential league.
     
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  2. StartingPrice

    StartingPrice Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

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    I think you do other things that make your thumb far more tired :sneaky:

    I do apologise. Sometimes analysis requires covering more than can be covered by a simlpe that's crap. And I learned to write before computers were commonplace and type/use computers before minuscule touch-screen devices were invented. I know this offends some folk (though I do shudder to think were humanity is heading if reasoned argument is frowned upon because it takes more than 13 bytes).

    I wouldn't worry, however, as making any kind of comment about the length of (some) of my posts, rather than their merit, will always generate some positive ratings. Chin up 'ol fella (y)
     
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  3. Lighty64

    Lighty64 Glory Glory

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    i know we have finished above them 6 out of 7, but the last time they did they had no European football just like this season. before last season i can't remember the last time Leicester finished above us, and we all know what happened there. nothing is written in stone anymore after all those seasons you could name the top 4 just not the order.

    this season i honestly believe will be 1 of the toughest to predict, yes we have a great squad, and stronger back ups within and some exciting youth coming through, but i see Liverpool, Everton, Chelsea and Man U being stronger next season, and with the TV money coming in there won't be many easy games, we will need to produce better than last season to grab a top 4
     
  4. StartingPrice

    StartingPrice Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

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    I'm sure you did know we have finished above them six times in the last seven seasons - I chose to emphasise it to further my argument (y)

    I have referenced the lack of European football (for them and the Chavs) as being cause for pause.

    It is a fair comment that the last time they finished above us they had no European football. It is also fair to point out we now have a much better squad and manager, and they don't have Suarez (or Sterling). There is not an unavoidable conclusion to be drawn from it.

    The Leicester analogy is, IMHO, totally irrelevant.

    Nothing is written in stone...which is why all my posts have been very clear that I am not making any comment of how good, bad or indifferent Liverpool will be. I did say the salient feature of the forthcoming season is that it is so difficult to make any predictions.

    I agree with everything else you say. My main point is that there seems to be a constant obsession with making Liverpool seem almost irresistible - while ignoring any scope for improvement for ourselves. We haven't been lucky to finish seventh in the last seven years, despite it being repeated at the start of every season. Liverpool haven't become a major force in English and European football again despite many members of this forum despite the many posts saying they've signed Rodgers/Klopp/Sakho/Coutinho/Balotelli and on and on and Ariston they are going to win the CL another five times, five times. I just wanted to put things into a bit of perspective. Part of that perspective is that Klopp had a good record in Germany and they don't have any European football, the season is unpredictable and I wouldn't dismiss them. But part of that analysis is also that we have a shed load of reasons for going into the season with guarded confidence...is all.
     
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  5. spursfan77

    spursfan77 Well-Known Member

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    @StartingPrice i agree with your series of posts, especially about their fans hamstringing their club. You can add all the pundits in the media that used to play for them building them up all the time plus any ex-player that can't wait to hail them as the best team in the world.

    I firmly believe had Rodgers stayed they would have probably finished higher than they did. They seemed to be getting on a good run under klopp though towards the end of the season. But I very much doubt they will finish above us. Hopefully they've improved enough to take points off of our rivals though, that will be the most important role for them this season.
     
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  6. Danny1

    Danny1 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I was a bit blase in my description of Poch being better, however as detailed in @StartingPrice posts I am in agreement. Klopp is a good manager, no doubt, however when he joined he was deemed the messiah by everyone on TV, just because it was Liverpool that he had taken over. What I will say is that Klopp left Dortmund in a pretty horrid state and they have improved massively since Tuchel has taken over. Therefore, do we now say that Tuchel is now the top manager around, considering people in Germany were questioning him before he went to BVB.

    Much like in France, the German League is run by one club, and everyone else tends to play for second. Therefore, coming to the Premier League which is the most 'competitive', definitely not 'technically' the best, is a completely different thing & requires a different approach to management. Klopp may need a number of years to get used to this, and hopefully this season will realise that a draw at home to West Brom does not require a Champions League winning celebration infront of the Kop. It just adds to the million and one reasons why non-Liverpool fans hate them so much.

    Also, every year in here it seems that people say that "Liverpool will challenge us" and I honestly IMO, do not understand this statement. I look at their team and I don't see anything special. Coutinho turns up 1 in every 3/4 games, Firmino is a hit & miss player, Sturridge is always injured, and that's their best players. Who else in that team would get into a top 4 side? Henderson, Can, Lallana, Lovren, Benteke, Lucas, Moreno? None of those players would get close to the Spurs or Arsenal team, let alone the already improving City, Chelsea & United sides.

    My prediction for Liverpool this year is that they will be the same type of side as last year that are sometimes great going forward, but are regularly very poor defensively and will finish 7th, 6th at best dependent on teams like West Ham, Southampton & Leicester. But hey, I may be wrong and if so, then Ill hate Liverpool even more :)
     
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  7. Marty

    Marty Throbbing member

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    Spending a combined £55m on Mane and Wijnaldum isn't spending big, it's spending ridiculously. Neither are consistent enough to warrant that kind of fee.

    Plus I think they're weaker in the middle for selling Joe Allen. I rate him well above Henderson.

    That's not saying I don't think they'll be decent this year, but I can't see how that squad can go higher than 6th unless one or several of the supposed top clubs fail spectacularly.
     
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  8. Dazzazzad

    Dazzazzad Member

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    [​IMG]

    Can't quite put my finger on it but it feels like something is missing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
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  9. degoose

    degoose Well-Known Member

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    haha ,slightly confused how liverpool get on that list.
     
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  10. npearl4spurs

    npearl4spurs Believing Member

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    Love the dedication and thought in your posts SP. And I actually like to read. It just makes me smile when you live up to your reputation fella
     
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  11. vicbob

    vicbob Well-Known Member

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    Because they always do. They are always part of the big 4, or maybe 5, or even 6 or possibly even 7 or 8 (depending on where they finish). We however never make the big 5 even when we finish 3rd. Still I kinda quite like that.

    Also bookies know there market, they must make a packet on all the scousers putting their benefits on Liverpool to win the title every year
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
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  12. olliec

    olliec Well-Known Member

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    Obviously a goon who wrote that poll!
     
  13. degoose

    degoose Well-Known Member

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    good point and yes regarding the bets. I made 50 quid two years in a row with a couple of liverpool fans betting me they would finish above spurs. The beer i bought with that money tasted even better :D
     
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  14. Shadydan

    Shadydan Well-Known Member

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    West Ham?
     
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  15. RichieS

    RichieS Well-Known Member

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    The reigning champions are only there as an afterthought as well (it's alphabetical until their inclusion).
     
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  16. Gaz_Gammon

    Gaz_Gammon Well-Known Member

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    Heard that each year for the last decade.

    A new shiny manager does not make a Championship, and we should know that well enough as to trot out the "whoever dismisses them is deluded" tripe.

    We are better than them in every department and in more than enough areas with our fringe players.
     
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  17. worcestersauce

    worcestersauce "I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope

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    That's what I said, I said that we are good enough.
    My post was reflecting my feelings in response to some opinions that seemed to say that Liverpool were no hopers, they are not and I stand by that.
     
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  18. Mattspur

    Mattspur Do Mattspur

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    :p I'm pretty sure that M comes after L.
     
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  19. RichieS

    RichieS Well-Known Member

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    Ha, what was I thinking?!
     
  20. oskathegobshite

    oskathegobshite #Spursy

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    No doubt in my mind that we will finish above Liverpool. None whatsoever.
     
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