What the pundits are saying about us

ralvy

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Actually I just saw a report which says the 4th official didn't give any decision but the ref gave it anyway. In which case the ref was wrong to 'guess' that Lovren touched the ball but got 'lucky' in that it was the correct decision. He probably shouldn't make that decision given he wasn't sure as you say. If he didn't give the penalty we would have continued to dominate and likely to go on and win the game. The decision probably cost us in the end. We were robbed!
Why is he wrong for guessing? Whatever decision he could have ended up giving, it would have been a guess one way or another. So why is giving the pen, which was his original call, worse than not giving it if the ref just doesn't know for sure either way? He had to make a call.
 

worcestersauce

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.
Actually I just saw a report which says the 4th official didn't give any decision but the ref gave it anyway. In which case the ref was wrong to 'guess' that Lovren touched the ball but got 'lucky' in that it was the correct decision. He probably shouldn't make that decision given he wasn't sure as you say. If he didn't give the penalty we would have continued to dominate and likely to go on and win the game. The decision probably cost us in the end. We were robbed!
He didn't give the decision anyway though, he had already given the decision and the only reason to change it was if the linesman confirmed it was offside which he didn't and couldn't do in which case he could not change his decision.
He didn't guess at anything he played it by the book.
Personally I think our own Christian Eriksen played a blinder when he told them Lovren did touch it and when Can said he didn't, laughed at him, it was clear he was telling the truth and Can was lying.
I look at it from the other direction, what if Moss had changed his mind and given offside, all the talk would be about a miscarriage of justice and that Lovren deliberately kicked the ball so it wasn't offside and we were robbed of a penalty and the win.
 

mil1lion

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Why is he wrong for guessing? Whatever decision he could have ended up giving, it would have been a guess one way or another. So why is giving the pen, which was his original call, worse than not giving it if the ref just doesn't know for sure either way? He had to make a call.
Because he didn't see the touch by Lovren and didn't know the player was offside when he gave the penalty. The linesman said he was onside only if Lovren touches the ball. The ref admitted he didn't know if Lovren touched it but stuck with the decision. So yes he is wrong for guessing. In reality if he doesn't know if Lovren touched the ball he can't give the decision. His initial decision to give a penalty wasn't a guess because he didn't know the player was offside until he spoke to the lineman.
 

Spurs 1961

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I think you are right, in the sense that refs should totally be encouraged to assess the decision with a linesman, etc... the criticism Moss is getting (from non Liverpool fans) is his asking for "anything on the TV", which i a bizarre question to ask as VAR or any other tech is not permissible as of yet.

And my personal criticism was more related to the fact that he suggests in the conversation to not know for sure that it hit Lovren and if it hasn't, then said consulted linesman said "then its offside." As I said, would have had (begrudgingly) more respect if he said, don't know and the lino said, then we can't award the Pen and Moss says, true, overturned.
Sure I hear what you are saying but suspect he had a gut instinct that thee had been a touch and without the benefit of replays ... like we had ... had to decide whether to back his instinct. I don't think being overruled by the assistant was a problem to hi since that is what happened later.

I agree that rules say they can't use video but that is one of the things I think is so annoying at Premier League games which are all televised. Going forward it would make sense to use all eyes including the technology that is readily available.

However this situation remains unclear but at least the right result was achieved. For me that is way better than being at Wembley, watching clear fouls unpunished and a blatant penalty not given. That to me is poor officiating
 

ralvy

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Because he didn't see the touch by Lovren and didn't know the player was offside when he gave the penalty. The linesman said he was onside only if Lovren touches the ball. The ref admitted he didn't know if Lovren touched it but stuck with the decision. So yes he is wrong for guessing. In reality if he doesn't know if Lovren touched the ball he can't give the decision. His initial decision to give a penalty wasn't a guess because he didn't know the player was offside until he spoke to the lineman.
What you're saying would be correct had the linesman not made the original call of not waving the flag. Non of them knew for sure whether Lovren played the ball or not, hence they had no choice but to go with their original call. The real mistake would have been overturning their original calls with no real evidence to back it up.
 

Jody

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Funny how people have complained / discussed so much about a pen that didn't end up in a goal. I'd understand if he'd put it away and it made a difference to the outcome.
 

isaac94

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Paul Merson said: "Spurs' defenders won't have seen a lot of Aubameyang, they won't know his movements." Spurs have faced Aubameyang four times in the last two years, in which time the striker has scored four goals against them. Even by Merson's standards, that comment is pathetic.
 

ryantegan

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The conversation in full:

Smart
: ‘All I need to know is, did Lovren touch the ball?’
Moss: ‘I don’t know.’
Smart: ‘If he’s not touched the ball, it is offside, so you’re chalking off the penalty. It has to be offside if Lovren has not touched the ball.’
Christian Eriksen: ‘He did touch the ball.’
Emre Can: ‘He didn’t touch the ball.’
Moss: ‘Just talk to me again.’
Smart: ‘You know what I’m asking; I need to clarify, has Lovren touched the ball? If he has, it’s a deliberate action and, therefore, it’s a penalty. If he has not, it is offside.’
Moss: ‘I have no idea whether Lovren touched the ball to be honest with you. Martin, have you got anything from TV? I’m giving the penalty.’

That last line in italics just makes me cringe. Replays suggest the ball did come off a Liverpool player, but to not be sure and still award the penalty??? To me, I would have been annoyed if he hadn't have given it, BUT based on that conversation, I think it's dangerous from a netral perspective to argue the Ref made the informed decision!
The italic part, despite denials from the referees association, suggests to me that Martin in the earpiece said "yes, Lovren touched the ball"
 

Basil Brush

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Paul Merson said: "Spurs' defenders won't have seen a lot of Aubameyang, they won't know his movements." Spurs have faced Aubameyang four times in the last two years, in which time the striker has scored four goals against them. Even by Merson's standards, that comment is pathetic.
Merson is an idiot, and that is offensive to idiots.
 

Gb160

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The italic part, despite denials from the referees association, suggests to me that Martin in the earpiece said "yes, Lovren touched the ball"
Exactly, there's a pause when he asks the 4th official, Before he says he's giving the pen...I'm pretty sure it was at this point the Lino done his fist pump thing.
 

dricha1

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Can’t be believe we’re still banging on about this. Both decisions were correct, in fact the first penalty should have been retaken for encroachment.

I doubt there would have been all this fury if it was Southampton v Stoke, but cos Liverpool are involved......

I work in Liverpool and pretty much every Liverpool fan has avoided me until today when one said “you’ve been keeping a low profile this week!”....the cheek!....as if I should be embarrassed!

I think all this over reaction is what Poch was trying to get at in his press conference earlier in the week..
 

Danny1

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So Garth Crooks weird all of a sudden dislike of us continues in his Team of the Week comments.

1 - He says Vertonghen was great but then ends his discussion on Verts by saying that Arsenal had enough chances to get a draw and blew it......what about the 8 chances we had......? Strange comment!
2 - He says Kane is great, but he deserves trophies and unless we win them he should leave.......

Think its time this moronic individual was taken off air. He was no doubt a good player, but as a pundit he has always been a strange guy who comes out with such utter tripe (not just about Spurs).
 

SugarRay

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So Garth Crooks weird all of a sudden dislike of us continues in his Team of the Week comments.

1 - He says Vertonghen was great but then ends his discussion on Verts by saying that Arsenal had enough chances to get a draw and blew it......what about the 8 chances we had......? Strange comment!
2 - He says Kane is great, but he deserves trophies and unless we win them he should leave.......

Think its time this moronic individual was taken off air. He was no doubt a good player, but as a pundit he has always been a strange guy who comes out with such utter tripe (not just about Spurs).
I think he compared Raheem Sterling to Eusebio the other week. He’s on the gear 100%

Anytime he speaks about Kane he ends up saying he needs to leave. Some serious bitterness there for some reason
 

ExpatFan

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So Garth Crooks weird all of a sudden dislike of us continues in his Team of the Week comments.

1 - He says Vertonghen was great but then ends his discussion on Verts by saying that Arsenal had enough chances to get a draw and blew it......what about the 8 chances we had......? Strange comment!
2 - He says Kane is great, but he deserves trophies and unless we win them he should leave.......

Think its time this moronic individual was taken off air. He was no doubt a good player, but as a pundit he has always been a strange guy who comes out with such utter tripe (not just about Spurs).
Yes, noticed that myself this morning. Used his so-called "Team of the Week" column to keep pushing the media-driven agenda about Kane "having to leave to win things".... even threw ManUre into the mix. No mention of any Liverpool players having to do the same, of course.
 

Danny1

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I think he compared Raheem Sterling to Eusebio the other week. He’s on the gear 100%

Anytime he speaks about Kane he ends up saying he needs to leave. Some serious bitterness there for some reason
Ha I had forgotten about that. Eusebio, one of footballs greats ever and Raheem Sterling, scores a few goals and runs into people a lot.
 

Insomnia

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Can you wank puffins talking about them deluded scouse fuckwits & the penalties fuck off somewhere else, maybe talk about it in the picture thread
 
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