When will the fans' mentalities change?

[guiltyparty]

I've heard this "controlled the game" term mentioned several times. We were never in the lead, went behind on 3 different occasions and conceded 4 goals. Sorry that is no definition of "control", however good the football we played was.

 

[Bobbins]

I might possibly have had a drink today. . .

What I was trying to say was that my mentality is fine. I expected a tough game which is what we what got. I've seen quite a few threads blaming all sorts - perhaps that's what you mean by the fans mentality?

It's a shitty day don't worry about it, I think we're all due a rant - though it seems some people think everything in every thread should be negged into oblivion for no reason.

I think all I'm really saying is that whilst we're all surely loving the progress of the club under Poch, we've all got nagging doubts in the back of our minds as to whether we're ever really going to actually win anything - and today's game won't have helped that. Usually we've fallen short with inexplicable performances or drops in form - today frankly we were generally excellent, and yet we still somehow managed to concede four goals.

We desperately need to make that big step forwards in actually winning something, crossing the line - Poch is almost certainly the guy to do it, but until he does, as fans we'll always have that nagging doubt.

 

[guiltyparty]

So it's Spursy is it? We lost 7 in a row, but rather than a positive of 7 SF's it's a negative that we didn't win. Most teams don't win and in particular most don't win when they come up against the elite (and by elite I mean wealthiest).

We didn't "find a way to lose" - we came up against an expensive outfit who are ruthless. We are a young team that make mistakes - oil money has compiled a Chelsea team that doesn't.

Part of our problem is that we are close and so we think we should win stuff. However, we are not quite as good (or rich) as the big boys. I also think the Poch era is different - if he'd been in charge for all 7 QFs I might feel differently.

My mentality is good - I have faith in Poch and the team - it's not if we will win something, it's when.

I'm hurting too - it sucks but this victim culture needs to stop - be it blaming fate, refs, mentality or whatever - we were just not quite good enough on the pitch today - but we are getting closer. That was so much of an improvement on the cup final against Chelsea a couple of seasons ago.

We beat Chelsea in the league cup final when they were richer than us. At Wembley too! We beat Chelsea earlier in the season when they were richer than us. And Man City.

You say victim culture needs to stop, I say using "they're richer and bigger" as a catch all Get Out of jail free card needs to stop. There will always be a richer and bigger club, so using that as an excuse means we'll never win anything by that reasoning.

We play the best football and it's great to watch. But the reality is we need to win something, soon, or this team will be broken up before our feet touch the ground

 

[guiltyparty]

It's a shitty day don't worry about it, I think we're all due a rant - though it seems some people think everything in every thread should be negged into oblivion for no reason.

I think all I'm really saying is that whilst we're all surely loving the progress of the club under Poch, we've all got nagging doubts in the back of our minds as to whether we're ever really going to actually win anything - and today's game won't have helped that. Usually we've fallen short with inexplicable performances or drops in form - today frankly we were generally excellent, and yet we still somehow managed to concede four goals.

We desperately need to make that big step forwards in actually winning something, crossing the line - Poch is almost certainly the guy to do it, but until he does, as fans we'll always have that nagging doubt.

And I don't think anyone can blame a Spurs fan for thinking like that either. It's not productive but it's perfectly understandable

 

[SpartanSpur]

I've heard this "controlled the game" term mentioned several times. We were never in the lead, went behind on 3 different occasions and conceded 4 goals. Sorry that is no definition of "control", however good the football we played was.

We made mistakes but however you want to frame it from a pure footballing standpoint we looked the more impressive outfit. Dominated possession but in a progressive and inventive way, not possession for possessions sake. Scored two top class goals. Chelsea's gameplan was to soak up pressure, but no way did they plan on extended spells of not being able to get out of their defensive third, often hitting aimless clearances. Sadly this good play didn't quite translate to clear cut chances on this occasion, they defended well, but for large spells they offered zero threat, they being the champions elect.

In hindsight their plan worked a treat, but had we won 3-2, they would have been hammered by the same pundits lauding them (whereas even in defeat a lot of pundits were impressed by us). That is what people were getting at by saying we were the better team. Hindsight is after all 20/20.

The crux was we cost ourselves with naive mistakes. Chelsea in the end deserved to win because they punished said mistakes and weathered our storm, then their expensive squad depth told. In terms of this years FA Cup being the 'better side' means little but going forward is key. Now the mentality comes down to if you see these mistakes as 'same old spurs' or simply something we can learn from and improve on.

 

[guiltyparty]

We made mistakes but however you want to frame it from a pure footballing standpoint we looked the more impressive outfit. Dominated possession but in a progressive and inventive way, not possession for possessions sake. Scored two top class goals. Chelsea's gameplan was to soak up pressure, but no way did they plan on extended spells of not being able to get out of their defensive third, often hitting aimless clearances. Sadly this good play didn't quite translate to clear cut chances on this occasion, they defended well, but for large spells they offered zero threat, they being the champions elect.

In hindsight their plan worked a treat, but had we won 3-2, they would have been hammered by the same pundits lauding them (whereas even in defeat a lot of pundits were impressed by us). That is what people were getting at by saying we were the better team. Hindsight is after all 20/20.

The crux was we cost ourselves with naive mistakes. Chelsea in the end deserved to win because they punished said mistakes and weathered our storm, then their expensive squad depth told. In terms of this years FA Cup being the 'better side' means little but going forward is key. Now the mentality comes down to if you see these mistakes as 'same old spurs' or simply something we can learn from and improve on.

Our storm equalled 4 shots on target all game. Less than Chelsea's. I don't disagree we were the better team to watch. I just don't think we threatened anywhere near as much as people are suggesting.

Also not sure squad depth played that much of a part. We could have been out of sight as our starting 11 was infinitely superior to theirs but conspired to hand them 3 of the 4 goals. Costa was anonymous when he came on. Hazard scored but we literally handed him the goal on a plate, shouting shoot while not chasing him down.

And as for "they being the champions elect" - what is it with this inferiority complex? We're 2nd. We're the 2nd best team in the league. So what if they're probably going to win the league, they had several key players out, we've beaten them at full strength this season already, we are the best chance of stopping them win it, and were the best chance in the cup. To just dismiss that as "ah well, they better" as if we're sat in 10th is what I find weirdest of the lot

Yet those who are taking this loss "better" seem to think they are being the most positive. Funny old game as a great man once said

 

[Graysonti]

Our storm equalled 4 shots on target all game. Less than Chelsea's. I don't disagree we were the better team to watch. I just don't think we threatened anywhere near as much as people are suggesting.

Also not sure squad depth played that much of a part. We could have been out of sight as our starting 11 was infinitely superior to theirs but conspired to hand them 3 of the 4 goals. Costa was anonymous when he came on. Hazard scored but we literally handed him the goal on a plate, shouting shoot while not chasing him down.

And as for "they being the champions elect" - what is it with this inferiority complex? We're 2nd. We're the 2nd best team in the league. So what if they're probably going to win the league, we are the best chance of stopping them win it, and were the best chance in the cup. To just dismiss that as "ah well, they better" as if we're sat in 10th is what I find weirdest of the lot

Yet those who are taking this loss "better" seem to think they are being the most positive. Funny old game as a great man once said

This game was always 50/50 and we handed them three easy goals.

Not much more we can do except support team trying to win next six games.

Regardless of today, this club is in a very, very positive place.

Eventually all these infrasture projects will start to help too - we will be able to compete financially with most.

 

[guiltyparty]

This game was always 50/50 and we handed them three easy goals.

Not much more we can do except support team trying to win next six games.

Regardless of today, this club is in a very, very positive place.

Eventually all these infrasture projects will start to help too - we will be able to compete financially with most.

Of course it is, but do we really have to say all of that every time before saying anything negative just to qualify it?

This Spurs team is the best starting 11 in my football watching lifetime. I think Poch is the perfect manager for us. I am overall incredibly happy with where the club is

Now can I moan about how we totally fucked it today?

 

[SpartanSpur]

Our storm equalled 4 shots on target all game. Less than Chelsea's. I don't disagree we were the better team to watch. I just don't think we threatened anywhere near as much as people are suggesting.

Also not sure squad depth played that much of a part. We could have been out of sight as our starting 11 was infinitely superior to theirs but conspired to hand them 3 of the 4 goals. Costa was anonymous when he came on. Hazard scored but we literally handed him the goal on a plate, shouting shoot while not chasing him down.

And as for "they being the champions elect" - what is it with this inferiority complex? We're 2nd. We're the 2nd best team in the league. So what if they're probably going to win the league, we are the best chance of stopping them win it, and were the best chance in the cup. To just dismiss that as "ah well, they better" as if we're sat in 10th is what I find weirdest of the lot

Yet those who are taking this loss "better" seem to think they are being the most positive. Funny old game as a great man once said

Hmm I'm not sure we are quite alligned here. I clearly admit the mistakes were what cost us in my post. We were good enough to win today but failed. It hurts. But equally we put up a hell of a fight until the freakish 4th goal.

And no matter what you think. Bringing on Hazard when we can only bring on N'Koudou is a difference maker.

As for chelsea being champions elect, the title is in their hands with a much better run in. I'm hoping we take them all the way but it's not inferiority complex, it's just not blind faith. I'm not quite sure why you are so bullish about the whole thing, blind faith is no more helpful than pessimism in my book.

 

[Graysonti]

Of course it is, but do we really have to say all of that every time before saying anything negative just to qualify it?

This Spurs team is the best starting 11 in my football watching lifetime. I think Poch is the perfect manager for us. I am overall incredibly happy with where the club is

Now can I moan about how we totally fucked it today?

I do agree that we could have avoided all three goals - they were given so easy.

And we played well apart from that - scored two crackers.

What can you do but think of positives

 

[SpartanSpur]

Now can I moan about how we totally fucked it today?

Thats what the match thread is for! Haha

 

[Graysonti]

How the fuck is today my fault

 

[guiltyparty]

Hmm I'm not sure we are quite alligned here. I clearly admit the mistakes were what cost us in my post. We were good enough to win today but failed. It hurts. But equally we put up a hell of a fight until the freakish 4th goal.

And no matter what you think. Bringing on Hazard when we can only bring on N'Koudou is a difference maker.

As for chelsea being champions elect, the title is in their hands with a much better run in. I'm hoping we take them all the way but it's not inferiority complex, it's just not blind faith. I'm not quite sure why you are so bullish about the whole thing, blind faith is no more helpful than pessimism in my book.

We should have had Son to bring on. That was a tactical fuck up, hardly a squad thing. Only Poch knows why he's bringing on a player who often can't buy a place on the bench in the league. Maybe if he'd given him more minutes this season he'd make more of an impact when brought on? Not N'koudou's fault.

You certainly can't compare him to their best player who was rested anyway. Willian, the nearest player who you could reasonably compare him to, has started 21 games; GKN has started 2. Yes they have a better squad but they also use theirs a lot more.

And I'm not doubting they're champions elect. I'm saying that's a slightly crap reason for writing off a loss in the cup to them, as if it's to be expected

I don't know if I am bullish, but that's what I expect if people think we're the better team. We either are or aren't. Too many caveats and excuses. I don't get the meekness at all.

 

[glacierSpurs]

The discussions in this thread are all over the place...

I thought this season most of the fans' mentalities already changed, with hopes of winning the double (despite the league title being a long shot) before the the semi yesterday.. Was that not a change for the better for that optimism after our meltdown at the end of last season? It was with hindsight after the loss that perspective may shift abit. But no doubt more optimism may be renewed for the next season after ending this; that is of course considering how far hindsight will alter what comes after finishing the end of these coming 6 league games!

 

[TaoistMonkey]

Sean get out of the clouds mate! Spurs choke simple really. No winners and our club has a mentality that fails not sure how that can change really. One the phrase Spursy was created it stuck. To be winners you need to find a way!!

This is my mate who's a spurs fan who I've now told to never discuss football with me ever

 

[Deleted member 27995]

"A senior monk and a junior monk were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The young woman asked if they could help her cross to the other side.

The two monks glanced at one another because they had taken vows not to touch a woman.

Then, without a word, the older monk picked up the woman, carried her across the river, placed her gently on the other side, and carried on his 
journey.

The younger monk couldn’t believe what had just happened. After rejoining his companion, he was speechless, and an hour passed without a word between them.

Two more hours passed, then three, finally the younger monk could contain himself any longer, and blurted out “As monks, we are not permitted a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?”

The older monk looked at him and replied, “Brother, I set her down on the other side of the river, why are you still carrying her?”

 

[guiltyparty]

The discussions in this thread are all over the place...

I thought this season most of the fans' mentalities already changed, with hopes of winning the double (despite the league title being a long shot) before the the semi yesterday.. Was that not a change for the better for that optimism after our meltdown at the end of last season? It was with hindsight after the loss that perspective may shift abit. But no doubt more optimism may be renewed for the next season after ending this; that is of course considering how far hindsight will alter what comes after finishing the end of these coming 6 league games!

Like last season, been a very good season, but the run in has the ability to take some of the shine off as it lasts in the memory. Being great for 3/4 of a season is something we're getting used to, but so is blowing up in the run-in.

Personally, this team had me - after years of negativity, I so thought we'd win that game yesterday. Inside, where it matters, I thought it was ours. Not the double, but the cup. It was our time. I had faith. You're right, that's a big shift.

But where does that leave us today? Licking wounds, feeling sorry for ourselves, unbecoming outpourings of grief (in a Spurs forum, the best place for it). Ultimately, it was misplaced faith. It's almost like an animal being electrocuted as it picks up the wrong controlled experiment block... A-what happened? How does that compute? This sickness is such a familiar feeling as a Spurs fan. The hope that kills you, as my mate said earlier in the week. So you get some and go again...

But now you look at that league table and you're instantly looking down, not up. It's completely human nature. There comes a time when the faith has to be repaid to make thinking something else real. Otherwise you're just a zealot screaming on a street corner. I have patience, most Spurs fans are hard wired for that, I just really hope this team does as, being a Spurs fan, I still have my doubts.

Poch saying "five year plan" is enough for some, I just see all the other managers that said the same thing. That's not a lack of support, it's an inevitable result of conditioning.

 

[widmerpool]

"A senior monk and a junior monk were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The young woman asked if they could help her cross to the other side.

The two monks glanced at one another because they had taken vows not to touch a woman.

Then, without a word, the older monk picked up the woman, carried her across the river, placed her gently on the other side, and carried on his 
journey.

The younger monk couldn’t believe what had just happened. After rejoining his companion, he was speechless, and an hour passed without a word between them.

Two more hours passed, then three, finally the younger monk could contain himself any longer, and blurted out “As monks, we are not permitted a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?”

The older monk looked at him and replied, “Brother, I set her down on the other side of the river, why are you still carrying her?”

I have difficulty in seeing the relevance or rhe merit of this little parable. It certainly isn't worth bold font. Its natural home is Comic Sans.

 

[guiltyparty]

I have difficulty in seeing the relevance or rhe merit of this little parable. It certainly isn't worth bold font. Its natural home is Comic Sans.

It means it's over, what needed to happen happened, get on with your life and stop bringing it up. The older monk has already forgotten it happened. Actually quite profound

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I have difficulty in seeing the relevance or rhe merit of this little parable. It certainly isn't worth bold font. Its natural home is Comic Sans.

The modern term is baggage - the quicker you let go of it, the quicker you move on.