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Will Ramos bring success to Spurs?

LSUY

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2005
24,010
66,826
This was posted on 606 and is a good read, which is surprising as it's a West Ham fan who wrote it.

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Actually, I can't understand this obsession with Juande Ramos. Prior to his spell at Sevilla, he had no spectacular achievements to note.

Before he joined, Sevilla was 6th in the 03/04 and 04/05 seasons. Thereafter, he managed a 5th in the 05/06 season and then 3rd in the league in 06/07. Along the way winning the UEFA cup twice and the super cup as well. Looks good but is that a one-off?

Currently Sevilla is lying 11th in the table and that is probably the reason why he is willing to leave the club.

Jol's achievements are actually much better. In the same time prior to Jol's managerial career at Spurs, Spurs was 14th and 9th in the 03/04 and 04/05 seasons. To achieve consistent 5ths in the next 2 seasons can compare to Ramos' stats. Jol's earlier career successes are also far more spectacular and consistent.

Many forget that Jol's success with Spurs was achieved without much current local knowledge prior to his introduction whereas Ramos as a spanish would have already been familiar with the spanish league making Jol's achievement far better in that light.

Sure, Spurs' performance is abysmal this season but is it really Jol's fault? I agree with Graham Taylor when he questioned how the board could give 40m pounds to a successful manager and six games later be seen tapping up another manager.

I'm not so sure that in hiring Ramos, Levy is getting a better manager. It appears to be more hype.

Spurs are currently 18th in the league. Getting Sevilla from consistent 6th to 5th and 3rd is a whole different proposition than getting from 18th upwards with Spurs. Doing it with a manager who does have not have an understanding of the traditions of game and how the English game is played is taking a big risk.

I'm sorry I could have done this analysis before Jol left but my belief is that Jol's leaving will actually hurt Spurs far more and therefore as a west ham fan, it doesn't make sense to help the other team.

I think Levy has backed Spurs into a corner in its own half and has no choice but to pick Ramos (if assuming he is even considering or available). This is because it is not easy to get an even better manager than Jol and Ramos probably is the closest at this time. Perhaps only the introduction of Mourinho (which we know is not possible contractually) would criticism of Jol's sacking abate.

I wish Jol the best of luck but with his skills, he won't need it. By sacking Jol, Spurs have scored an own goal.
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,391
34,061
If he's given as much time as Jol and every manager before Jol since Burkinshaw then NO.
 

Spurs4Life23

Better dead than red
Apr 3, 2007
96
0
The sun guy IS ramos in disguise :) We were much to hasty to get rid of MJ - we do it with every manager. They have a bad patch they get sacked. We need some continuity!
 

coldasice199

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2005
1,401
216
I think the difference lies

a. In the fact that Ramos has won things and achieved Champs League football
b. Done it without having the resources we have to sign players

Okay, there are a few cracking players there, but the ones he has brought in havent cost the world, and player for player we have better talent than them. Technical at least. Sevilla play as a team though and are fantastic to watch when they do. We talk about the effect the approach on Ramos had on Jol, but what about the effect on Ramos and Sevilla?
 

Stoof

THERE IS A PIGEON IN MY BANK ACCOUNT
Staff
Jun 5, 2004
32,220
64,274
If anything the effect would be to galvanise them more. He came out and rejected us in favour of staying with them.

Do you think otherwise?
 

GenericID

Member
Nov 15, 2006
271
1
Sevilla have a DoF. Saying Ramos is responsible for putting together an exciting team is putting the cart before the horse.
 

coldasice199

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2005
1,401
216
No I guess your right Stoof.

I think the fact we continued pestering may have made it slighter more difficult though.
 

vashthfc

New Member
Aug 6, 2005
66
0
Juande ramos is the right man for us, he has already done for seviila what jol has been trying to do for spurs, win eufa cup or anyother cup and play in the champo league, also don't care about how many clubs he has been to and what he has achieved, it's he's management style that i'm interested in, I remember interviews with Alves and Kanoute, and they both spoke very highly of he's management style.And according to other sources he is not afraid to drop big players when he needs to , NO favouritism.
 

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
There are two things I like about Ramos. He has a system and everyone knows their role. Its not totally rigid, players do overlap and there are partnerships all over the pitch, but you could drop a player in a position and he will know what that role consists of. I dont think we have that at the moment, and I think he will be quite aggressive with who is and who isnt up to the job.

Second, its this bit about when he was manager of Rayo Vallecano and they were winning 2-0, and he took off a player so his team only had ten men because they were not working hard enough! How quality is that! He'd rather have ten players working their socks off then 11 swanning about. Thats the ethos we need.
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
In answer to the question: who knows :shrug:

But Teemu don't go on what a Spammer says, here's what Sid Lowe the Guardian's Madrid-based Spanish football expert, writing last January in World Soccer magazine (before they'd retained the UEFA Cup etc) says,

[Source: World Soccer magazine]
"The fact that they are now in the running for a second Spanish Championship and have just won two pieces of silverware is not bad at all considering they lost Julio Baptista and Sergio Ramos to Real Madrid in the summer: the former their best player who had scored 50 goals in two seasons; the latter the youth team standard bearer. Consider also that that summer they lost coach Joaquin Caparros to Deportivo and that the budget for 2006 was £20m against Real Madrid's £232m, Barcelona's £162m and Valencia's £89m."

"...But in fact Sevilla soon showed they had made a leap of quality under the new man.

That should not have been a major surprise, since Ramos has a superb record. He made his name when steering Logrones into the top-flight in 1996, then took Rayo Vallecano into the first division and the 2000-01 UEFA Cup, when they reached the Quarter-Finals. He also proved a success at Malaga, his last posting before Sevilla. Only at Espanyol, where problems with the board meant Ramos lasted just five weeks, had he failed to be successful.

After Malaga, whom he left in 2004, he took a sabbatical, during which he travelled the world watching football. Now he is widely recognised as the best coach in Spain.

Ramos's training regime was so hard last summer that the players wore tape over their mouths as a silent protest. But no one is complaining now. "The coach has really driven home the need to win every game, to go out there and fight to the death," goalkeeper Palop says, "That attitude is vital."

...Sevilla are tough and uncompromising. Above all though they are fast. In fact, Sevilla play at breathtaking speed, swarming all over opponents, going all out for victory. The way they approached Middlesborough in the UEFA Cup Final was no one-off; it was a stamp of identity.

...Ramos and Monchi have consciously sought out players with both mental and physical speed, while the entire side have been given a boost by the efforts of Endocrinologist Dr Antonio Escribano. His methods have prompted the squad to lose unwanted weight..."


Anyway the piece goes on and is followed by an interview with Ramos.

The point is, according to at least one expert in Spanish football, Ramos is the business, not just now with Sevilla, but also in the past with his other clubs. The philosophy fits, the discipline and fitness regime is certainly what the team needs and his approach to improving himself as a coach as well as the team seems detailed and thorough.

Doesn't mean he's the answer of course, but it puts the lie to the idea that Ramos is a 'one-club-wonder'.
 

DoublePivot

Relegated to Lurker
Jul 1, 2005
8,987
67
And the point on Rayo Vallecano......he did that with Kasey Keller as his keeper. Now that's fucking impressive.
 

michaelden

Knight of the Fat Fanny
Aug 13, 2004
26,386
21,685
Will Ramos bring us success? :think:


*runs to get crystal ball

How would we know? If I did then that would be real ITK!!!
 

archiewasking

Waiting for silverware..........
Jul 5, 2004
7,848
11,668
His methods have prompted the squad to lose unwanted weight..."

I expect Robbo's already started. Getting through a lot of pants at the thought of Ramos.

I feel so so sad at the way we have dumped one of the nicest guys in football. Even if the results maybe warrant it.

The best bit of this whole fiasco is getting rid of a goalkeeping coach whose tenure has coincided with the most uncertain form for two custodians of supposed international quality. If they can't dominate the box, catch crosses and judge the flight of a ball accurately, what on earth was Segers teaching them?
 

archiewasking

Waiting for silverware..........
Jul 5, 2004
7,848
11,668
And to answer the question, if he can sort out the defence - for instance by persuading Kaboul to act as part of it - get everyone to know what their role is and playing to their strengths, ensure they all concentrate until the final whistle instead of the 82nd minute and get fit enough to work till they drop for the right to wear the first team shirt of my beloved Tottenham, then maybe he has a fighting chance.
 

gibbs131

Banned
May 20, 2005
8,870
11
I think he will see our team fullfil its potential. And he will give us relative realistic success no doubt.

EURO CUP HERE WE COME!!!!
 
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