Will we win a trophy under Poch?

[Everlasting Seconds]

I think there is no easy trophy. If there was, we would have won it a few more times over the last decade. The curaçao cup certainly isn't easy, but it is less prestigious.

As such, I'm fine with them prioritising. We should focus on a big trophy, and really go for it.

 

[nicdic]

I know what he's saying, but the rest of that post is bollocks. Saying "no-one will care two hoots about cup wins down the line" is the exact 100% opposite of the truth.

The only thing which will show in the record books, which will inspire future generations and which will form part of the rich history of the club, is winning trophies. It's the top four finishes and the CL knockout stage exits that won't be recorded, that no-one will remember, that no-one will give two hoots about.

Everyone knows Poch is prioritising the League and CL and that's perfectly understandable given they are the tougher games and bigger rewards. The problem isn't the relative weighting of importance - it's the history of writing the domestic cups off completely, and the attitude of some fans that 1, the cups aren't important in any way and 2, that they're actually somehow an inconvenience to us because we're trying to win bigger pots.

The hubris of this thinking is astonishing - our recent history shows that we have won absolutely fuck all! We are not United, Chelsea or Arsenal, who can justifiably say they have a recent history of winning these cups and so can be excused in saying they're now pushing for the bigger targets. We can't just suddenly decide we're an uber club who are too big for the cups - we're not.

We're not going to win the league. We're definitely not going to win the CL. We do need to keep finishing in the top four for a variety of reasons. We should be looking at the domestic cups as the perfect platforms to achieve real success, and to launch the club into this new era of becoming a true uber club. We can afford to win the precisely because we're not going to win the other prizes. We can win them without damaging our top four hopes. We can win them because the fans have been suffering for years watching our rivals win everything. We can win them to get our players some damn medals and to get rid of the millstone around our necks that says you'll never win anything with Tottenham.

We are not the massive club some people (including Poch) seem to think we are - not yet - and the domestic cups are not below us, as some people seem to think.

Rubbish. All of it gets written down in books. People record all of it. But realistically no one will be all that bothered about league cup wins, it's just the way it is now.

I think very few people have actually argued we should just sack off the domestic cups, I don't actually remember reading anyone on here, or elsewhere saying we should throw them, they just aren't as high a priority. It makes for an easier argument if you pretend everyone is saying they don't care though I guess.

The club and fans also aren't saying we're bigger than the domestic cups, they're just saying they fit in a list of priorities, and don't find themselves at the top. All of us (club, manager, players, fans) would love to win them, but not at the expense or cost of league progression or CL progression. We could well win the league, and who knows with CL, sure it'd be a stretch but we just drew away at the reigning back-to-back champs, could we beat them in a one-off? Why not?

This whole domestic cups thing being a great platform is of course true, but let's not re-write history and pretend that people like Mourinho prioritised domestic cup wins over the league or CL. The top teams all approach them in the same way. They rest and rotate squads, and if they happen to get to semi-finals and finals they bring in the top players. We've done the same but come up short twice in Poch's reign. People act like Mourinho picked a full strength team on the way to win these league cups down the years. That never happened as far as I'm aware. Of course is we got to a final and won it would be great, and serve as potentially a great platform, but it's not as big as some people are making out.

Poch hasn't said the domestic cups are below us, he's just said we prioritise the league and CL, like any sane fan would. You have to prioritise, and drawing the line anywhere else is stupid. Should we sack off the league in order to win the Carabao Cup only then to find us well off the pace in the league come February?

All of this is of course somewhat pointless, because we had a team more than good enough to win last night, and it was complacency from players that should know better that cost us. It's fine to be annoyed at the result from last night, but this whole trophies conversation is stupid in my opinion.

 

[Zammo]

Well, we won't win the league cup that's for sure.
From the manager's point of view winning the league cup doesn't take the club forwards and it's an unnecessary distraction from his main goals that he will have agreed with the chairman. Poch will take the blame but if Levy made it clear that this was an absolute priority for the club then I think his attitude would be different.

I don't really agree, and I think winning the cup would have been a decent marker for the club. But I can't see anything changing anytime soon unless the message changes from the chairman.

 

[nicdic]

Well, we won't win the league cup that's for sure.
From the manager's point of view winning the league cup doesn't take the club forwards and it's an unnecessary distraction from his main goals that he will have agreed with the chairman. Poch will take the blame but if Levy made it clear that this was an absolute priority for the club then I think his attitude would be different.

I don't really agree, and I think winning the cup would have been a decent marker for the club. But I can't see anything changing anytime soon unless the message changes from the chairman.

And I guess you'd have been thrilled about Kane watching the Liverpool and United games on the telly at home with his feet up? And keeping players like Hugo, Jan, Sanchez, Eriksen, etc. out of those games to give ourselves the best chance?

 

[Zammo]

And I guess you'd have been thrilled about Kane watching the Liverpool and United games on the telly at home with his feet up? And keeping players like Hugo, Jan, Sanchez, Eriksen, etc. out of those games to give ourselves the best chance?

No of course not and I never said anything like that. I was reasonably happy with the team picked last night and I think the fact that we strolled to a 2-0 lead showed that the team picked was strong enough. However the attitude was wrong, and this down to the pre match comments made by the manager. If this was a league game we would not have lost that game with that team.

 

[StartingPrice]

I'm glad someone has made this thread...even though I know my answer is going to pee-off (but not in a cup and over West Ham fans) all sides.

1) I have seen several times, last night, earlier in the week, and now in this thread, a continuous desperate assertion that we have no hope of winning the effing league! Oh, really, how do you fucking know? Are you fucking clairvoyants? Look, City are favouties, no-one, ever, ever, ever, has said that they aren't fucking favourites. But we are joint second after nine fucking games (NINE AAAAAARGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!). But for Harry Kane not being able to score in August but hitting the woodwork in three consecutive matches in that month, and Mike Dean point-blank refusing to even countenance giving us one of the three penalty claims, of varying merit, against Swansea (and just look at the pathetic penalty United were given against Everton the same day!), we would actually be right up there with City. Their squad cost more...so effing what! Oh, look, if I believe we have any chance at all of winning the league I might be disappointed, and other club's fans might rather pathetically take the piss, and I'll cwy and cwy and cwy. Grow the feck up and let your fecking balls drop (not you, girlies, that would be most disturbing and a possible sign that a nefarious government agency has been tampering with the water supply). Anything rather than facing the burden of hope, eh!!! The funny thing, literally hilarious, is that we had exactly the same attitude about finishing in the top four - we won't be doing it any time soon. And finishing in the top four two seasons running, and finishing higher than fourth and getting out of our CL group. It is constantly the same, woolly thinking defeatist bullshit. Honestly, the way some folk go on I think we should just hold an Uncle Pep and the Pot Full of Gold auction every season, or, better still, raffle! Whoever wins the Uncle Pep, we can just give them all the trophies for that year and not bother playing any fecking football. Just to make it clear to you - they are favourites, we have a chance, they got off to a blistering start last season (remember when folk were fapping over them and discussing if they could win the title without dropping a single point - yeah - well that was last season - it happened FFS!). The team who wins the league will be the one who is most consistent over a full season, not the one who has the best start over nine! And who that is remains to be seen. We were pretty consistent last season without having the best record against other teams in the top six (think that was Liverpewel). Honestly, I wish I could get a Doctor Death Ming the Merciless Joy-Snatcher Intergalactic Ray Gun, that zaps the Universe and robs any Spurs fan who declares as an absolute that we have no chance of winning the league, of any joy whatsoever at us winning the league if, y'know, we actually win the fecking league! And breath.

2) I don't think Poch set out to not win last night, and I don't think his attitude is that it isn't worth winning. But I do think his attitude that it isn't as important has an effect on the players. He should just not say anything.

3) Everyone is talking about the second half last night. The rot was there in the first half. They were strolling about in third gear. And it sounds good having a scratch side leading by two while in third gear. But when you get into a third gear mind set it is not always easy to shake it off. And, y'know, sometimes you might need to. Like, for instance, if a team gets a goal back and gets up its belief and momentum. It happens. It happened last night and we needed to react to it but couldn't. And the rot was there the way we were fannying about in the first half!

4) In the grand scheme of things, winning the League Cup once means precisely feck all. It won't alter our profile as a club. It won't attract better players. Hell, we even get ragged that that is the only trophy we have won in the last few decades. Winning it once is going to change feck all!

5) Not winning one game in the Caribou Cup IS NOT the end of our season. Hopefully it will be a footnote of more interest to Wet Spam fans than anyone else.

6) Having said that, I would love to win it. It might help to instill a winning mentality in our players. And one of the few things I actually admire about Mourinho is that as soon as he arrived on these shores his instant attitude was What is the first trophy I can win? The League Cup? Right, I will make a good effort to win that, and then no matter what happens I can say I won a trophy. We can't just dismiss it, or the FA Cup, or the Europa league. As a club and fan base.

7) I admire Poch's attitude that he is here to win this club major major honours (and, unlike some, I actually believe he will do it*). But if he falls short on that and falls short on winning any other trophy, it won't look so clever. At some stage something has to give.
*Just to be clear, that is my answer to the question - we will win silverware under Poch, and we will win honours higher than the League Cup.

8) Actually, for those of us who lived through the Fergie era, yes, United had plenty of shitty nights like we had last night, where Fergie thought he would get away with putting out a scratch team with an iffy attitude and it all unraveled. He actually had quite a few blips where he lost two or three games on the trot, including a lower league gubbing in the cup. Not ever having a blip wasn't what made him great...it was how he recovered from blips.

Now, can everyone just calm the feck down and actually grow a pair. We are second favourites in a title race after nine games in a 38 game season - and when I say second favourites I do mean every single bookmaker on OddsChecker has us as second favourites in the betting to Man City. We are joint second in the league after nine games. And last night's result, disappointing as it was, won't change that.

 

[guiltyparty]

I'm glad someone has made this thread...even though I know my answer is going to pee-off (but not in a cup and over West Ham fans) all sides.

1) I have seen several times, last night, earlier in the week, and now in this thread, a continuous desperate assertion that we have no hope of winning the effing league! Oh, really, how do you fucking know? Are you fucking clairvoyants? Look, City are favouties, no-one, ever, ever, ever, has said that they aren't fucking favourites. But we are joint second after nine fucking games (NINE AAAAAARGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!). But for Harry Kane not being able to score in August but hitting the woodwork in three consecutive matches in that month, and Mike Dean point-blank refusing to even countenance giving us one of the three penalty claims, of varying merit, against Swansea (and just look at the pathetic penalty United were given against Everton the same day!), we would actually be right up there with City. Their squad cost more...so effing what! Oh, look, if I believe we have any chance at all of winning the league I might be disappointed, and other club's fans might rather pathetically take the piss, and I'll cwy and cwy and cwy. Grow the feck up and let your fecking balls drop (not you, girlies, that would be most disturbing and a possible sign that a nefarious government agency has been tampering with the water supply). Anything rather than facing the burden of hope, eh!!! The funny thing, literally hilarious, is that we had exactly the same attitude about finishing in the top four - we won't be doing it any time soon. And finishing in the top four two seasons running, and finishing higher than fourth and getting out of our CL group. It is constantly the same, woolly thinking defeatist bullshit. Honestly, the way some folk go on I think we should just hold an Uncle Pep and the Pot Full of Gold auction every season, or, better still, raffle! Whoever wins the Uncle Pep, we can just give them all the trophies for that year and not bother playing any fecking football. Just to make it clear to you - they are favourites, we have a chance, they got off to a blistering start last season (remember when folk were fapping over them and discussing if they could win the title without dropping a single point - yeah - well that was last season - it happened FFS!). The team who wins the league will be the one who is most consistent over a full season, not the one who has the best start over nine! And who that is remains to be seen. We were pretty consistent last season without having the best record against other teams in the top six (think that was Liverpewel). Honestly, I wish I could get a Doctor Death Ming the Merciless Joy-Snatcher Intergalactic Ray Gun, that zaps the Universe and robs any Spurs fan who declares as an absolute that we have no chance of winning the league, of any joy whatsoever at us winning the league if, y'know, we actually win the fecking league! And breath.

2) I don't think Poch set out to not win last night, and I don't think his attitude is that it isn't worth winning. But I do think his attitude that it isn't as important has an effect on the players. He should just not say anything.

3) Everyone is talking about the second half last night. The rot was there in the first half. They were strolling about in third gear. And it sounds good having a scratch side leading by two while in third gear. But when you get into a third gear mind set it is not always easy to shake it off. And, y'know, sometimes you might need to. Like, for instance, if a team gets a goal back and gets up its belief and momentum. It happens. It happened last night and we needed to react to it but couldn't. And the rot was there the way we were fannying about in the first half!

4) In the grand scheme of things, winning the League Cup once means precisely feck all. It won't alter our profile as a club. It won't attract better players. Hell, we even get ragged that that is the only trophy we have won in the last few decades. Winning it once is going to change feck all!

5) Not winning one game in the Caribou Cup IS NOT the end of our season. Hopefully it will be a footnote of more interest to Wet Spam fans than anyone else.

6) Having said that, I would love to win it. It might help to instill a winning mentality in our players. And one of the few things I actually admire about Mourinho is that as soon as he arrived on these shores his instant attitude was What is the first trophy I can win? The League Cup? Right, I will make a good effort to win that, and then no matter what happens I can say I won a trophy. We can't just dismiss it, or the FA Cup, or the Europa league. As a club and fan base.

7) I admire Poch's attitude that he is here to win this club major major honours (and, unlike some, I actually believe he will do it*). But if he falls short on that and falls short on winning any other trophy, it won't look so clever. At some stage something has to give.
*Just to be clear, that is my answer to the question - we will win silverware under Poch, and we will win honours higher than the League Cup.

8) Actually, for those of us who lived through the Fergie era, yes, United had plenty of shitty nights like we had last night, where Fergie thought he would get away with putting out a scratch team with an iffy attitude and it all unraveled. He actually had quite a few blips where he lost two or three games on the trot, including a lower league gubbing in the cup. Not ever having a blip wasn't what made him great...it was how he recovered from blips.

Now, can everyone just calm the feck down and actually grow a pair. We are second favourites in a title race after nine games in a 38 game season - and when I say second favourites I do mean every single bookmaker on OddsChecker has us as second favourites in the betting to Man City. We are joint second in the league after nine games. And last night's result, disappointing as it was, won't change that.

That covers basically every angle, good job.

As ever, things get conflated, and it seems like you're not allowed a negative opinion of Spurs without being negative about everything as a whole. As ever, to clarify, very happy where we are, what Poch's done, I think we can win the league (but I don't think going out of the league cup has anything to do with it, one way or the other).

 

[StartingPrice]

I think the biggest problem is that finishing 3rd and 2nd in consecutive seasons has fooled the majority of our fanbase into believing we were actually realistic contenders, when at no point in either season did we ever get close enough to realistically challenge. and now we, Tottenham Hotspur that have won all of 2 trophies in the last 25 years, seem to have this attitude that domestic cups (and the Europa League for that matter) are somehow beneath us. it would be a stupid mentality to have, even if we had been winning more lately, as Man U, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool all seem to find the time to take them more seriously than we do, but to have it while we win absolutely nothing just blows my mind.

I completely respect the hell out of Pochettino for having the balls to go on record as saying he's only really that interested in the PL and CL, but which manager ever wins either of those without ever having won anything else before? there's a reason why Jose Mourinho, an epic **** but one of the most successful managers of the modern era, always targets the League Cup as a way of instilling a winning mentality into his team. by constantly sending out the message that the cups really aren't that big a deal, I really think we're going about things the "wrong" way.

I very rarely give out NEGS, and by that I really do mean hardly ever...even in response to Negs given against me by others (even when they seem a bit pathetic). But I am absolutely making a point of giving you a <Disagee> and saying so, to.

1) Actually, a lot of folk believe that if we had held out to half time at Stamford Bridge last season, we would have won that game. We were by far the better team in the first half, and by equalising so late in the half the Chavs very clearly came out with renewed vigour and belief. How many points did Chelsea beat us by? That would have been three more for us and three less for them. More importantly, if was a part of their fantastic run, and they may not have had that run, or had that run so emphatically. So, but for that game we may well have won the title. So, yes, actually we were in a title race last year. We came pretty close to it and we very much were in a title race. Likewise, we could have went ahead of Leicester when it was clearly coming down to us and them. Fixtures were arranged in a way that massively benefited them, teams and managers made it clear that they were derperate to stop us while being powder-puff against them. And even so, going into the last four games, it took banning of our players for less than Wayne Rooney got away with in any select thirty second slot of his entire career, virtual assault, condoned by the officials, to the were we reacted and teams saying they want Leicester to win it for their friend Ranieri before putting out a team without a striker and then basically giving Leicester the ball to score (I'm talking about Swansea), going into the last few games, to ensure that they maintained (and even grew) their points advantage. That IS a title race!

2) Jaysus wept, that is the exact attitude that is gnawing the tats off me. YES we have a chance of winning the title this season. We are not favourites...but we have a bloody chance. We are second (joint) after nine games in a 38 game season, second favourites in the bookies, and still have to play the leaders twice. It is a marathon not the Award the Most Expensively Assembled Team the Trophy League. And YOU have literally zero knowledge of what happens. If you have to tell yourself there is no chance of us winning the title so that you won't have any hope and then you won't be all upset if we don't do it, you go right ahead and do that. But stop stating something that is defeatist and lazy and cowardly as an absolute fact!

3) What we have won in the last 25 has exactly the grand total of zero relevance. We have been progressing as a club and team from a point of near collapse. This is an upward trajectory. We are close to the endgame now. If you really can't see that we have improved dramatically both as a club and as a team then you are literally binded by your own fear. If you can't see that picking any point previous point on an upward trajectory is going to give you nothing but a false inference then, sorry, but perhaps the you are lacking certain cognitive skills.

4) The attitude that domestic cups are beneath us is not only, at best, unproven (I certainly don't have that attitude) but also another total irrelevance in regard to whether we actually have any chance of winning the title. Being knocked out of the League Cup may help us in the quest to win the league, and it may not...and not a one of us actually knows either way right now!

5) Poch never said he is only interested in the BPL and CL. He only voiced what ever single other person on the planet knows. Perhaps he shouldn't have voiced that opinion - as said in my last post, I don't think he should have said it. But he didn't say he didn't want to win them, and he didn't say he wasn't interested in them.

6) When, exactly, was the last time Leicester won something before winning the BPL title?

7) As said in my previous post, I agree with you completely about Mourinho.

Just to be clear, I am so sick that vomit may burst out of every vein and capillary, as my mouth is overflowing, at this frequently stated insistence that we have zero chance of winning the league. Just support the team in every single match and believe that if that means we win more games than City or anyone else we will win the league. That is literally all you need to now. And we have just shown beyond any shadow of a doubt that we can get a result against absolutely any club, last season we showed we can be very consistent, and we have improved this year. Just stop with the we have zero chance of winning the league BS or promise me that if we do win it you will force yourself to take zero pleasure out of it, please.

p.s. Just to clarify, because I know this confuses the beejaysus outta folk: I am not saying we will win the league, so you can throw this back at me if we don't win the league (or come second, or finish outside the top four) if you want, but it will be a bit pathetic.

 

[Bobbins]

And I guess you'd have been thrilled about Kane watching the Liverpool and United games on the telly at home with his feet up? And keeping players like Hugo, Jan, Sanchez, Eriksen, etc. out of those games to give ourselves the best chance?

This is nonsense, absolutely no-one has suggested this for one second - why are you just making stuff up?

 

[SpursDave88]

I very rarely give out NEGS, and by that I really do mean hardly ever...even in response to Negs given against me by others (even when they seem a bit pathetic). But I am absolutely making a point of giving you a <Disagee> and saying so, to.

1) Actually, a lot of folk believe that if we had held out to half time at Stamford Bridge last season, we would have won that game. We were by far the better team in the first half, and by equalising so late in the half the Chavs very clearly came out with renewed vigour and belief. How many points did Chelsea beat us by? That would have been three more for us and three less for them. More importantly, if was a part of their fantastic run, and they may not have had that run, or had that run so emphatically. So, but for that game we may well have won the title. So, yes, actually we were in a title race last year. We came pretty close to it and we very much were in a title race. Likewise, we could have went ahead of Leicester when it was clearly coming down to us and them. Fixtures were arranged in a way that massively benefited them, teams and managers made it clear that they were derperate to stop us while being powder-puff against them. And even so, going into the last four games, it took banning of our players for less than Wayne Rooney got away with in any select thirty second slot of his entire career, virtual assault, condoned by the officials, to the were we reacted and teams saying they want Leicester to win it for their friend Ranieri before putting out a team without a striker and then basically giving Leicester the ball to score (I'm talking about Swansea), going into the last few games, to ensure that they maintained (and even grew) their points advantage. That IS a title race!

2) Jaysus wept, that is the exact attitude that is gnawing the tats off me. YES we have a chance of winning the title this season. We are not favourites...but we have a bloody chance. We are second (joint) after nine games in a 38 game season, second favourites in the bookies, and still have to play the leaders twice. It is a marathon not the Award the Most Expensively Assembled Team the Trophy League. And YOU have literally zero knowledge of what happens. If you have to tell yourself there is no chance of us winning the title so that you won't have any hope and then you won't be all upset if we don't do it, you go right ahead and do that. But stop stating something that is defeatist and lazy and cowardly as an absolute fact!

3) What we have won in the last 25 has exactly the grand total of zero relevance. We have been progressing as a club and team from a point of near collapse. This is an upward trajectory. We are close to the endgame now. If you really can't see that we have improved dramatically both as a club and as a team then you are literally binded by your own fear. If you can't see that picking any point previous point on an upward trajectory is going to give you nothing but a false inference then, sorry, but perhaps the you are lacking certain cognitive skills.

4) The attitude that domestic cups are beneath us is not only, at best, unproven (I certainly don't have that attitude) but also another total irrelevance in regard to whether we actually have any chance of winning the title. Being knocked out of the League Cup may help us in the quest to win the league, and it may not...and not a one of us actually knows either way right now!

5) Poch never said he is only interested in the BPL and CL. He only voiced what ever single other person on the planet knows. Perhaps he shouldn't have voiced that opinion - as said in my last post, I don't think he should have said it. But he didn't say he didn't want to win them, and he didn't say he wasn't interested in them.

6) When, exactly, was the last time Leicester won something before winning the BPL title?

7) As said in my previous post, I agree with you completely about Mourinho.

Just to be clear, I am so sick that vomit may burst out of every vein and capillary, as my mouth is overflowing, at this frequently stated insistence that we have zero chance of winning the league. Just support the team in every single match and believe that if that means we win more games than City or anyone else we will win the league. That is literally all you need to now. And we have just shown beyond any shadow of a doubt that we can get a result against absolutely any club, last season we showed we can be very consistent, and we have improved this year. Just stop with the we have zero chance of winning the league BS or promise me that if we do win it you will force yourself to take zero pleasure out of it, please.

p.s. Just to clarify, because I know this confuses the beejaysus outta folk: I am not saying we will win the league, so you can throw this back at me if we don't win the league (or come second, or finish outside the top four) if you want, but it will be a bit pathetic.

Agree with absolutely everything you have written in both your posts and have tried to express the same in the matchdau thread.

If I could give you multiple winner rating I would.

 

[SpartanSpur]

why would we finish 13th though? this whole "would you rather Top 4 and CL qualification or win a cup and plummet down the leagues into oblivion" argument makes no sense whatsoever. we can win cups AND still finish Top 4 this season.

I was referring to the Utd link in the original comment.

With the competition amongst the top 6 this year the disruption caused by a league cup final run could be the difference between a top 4 battle and a title challenge. Something had to give after our recent fixtures, would you rather us rotate vs Utd or Madrid? The team last night WAS good enough to win. Alli, Davies, Alderweireld and Dier played 90 mins.

Everyone rotated this week (some more heavily than Poch) he is no different to the rest, his team just let him down. Sucks but that's football, you need luck in the cups.

 

[StartingPrice]

But when we look at ourselves and try to imagine that we are now the next Utd or Chelsea with that winning mentality, last night showed just how we are not.
Don't get me wrong the club have pushed themselves forward in recent times and the club is developing along solid lines, but that was fucking shit and totally avoidable against almost relegation fodder.
While I can see the picture emerging in front of us I can also see the images of our past of performances like last night all too common, and realise we are still some way off winning the league or anything for that matter.

I agree with everything else you say, but what you cannot see is that United and Chelsea have had results like ours last night - even in the middle of winning lots of trophies.

 

[Spurs' Pipe Dreams]

Yes

 

[fatpiranha]

This is nonsense, absolutely no-one has suggested this for one second - why are you just making stuff up?

What a strange question to ask the 'Official SC Padre' .

 

[WiganSpur]

This is nonsense, absolutely no-one has suggested this for one second - why are you just making stuff up?

Yep, I think everyone accepts the squad rotation.

But there's still no excuse for that result. That was poor attitude and nothing else, especially not the quality of players on show.

 

[StartingPrice]

This is nonsense, absolutely no-one has suggested this for one second - why are you just making stuff up?

Probably for the same reason that you have given a <Disagree> to both of my posts even though parts of both of them agree with parts of what you have been saying in yours

 

[Bobbins]

Probably for the same reason that you have given a <Disagree> to both of my posts even though parts of both of them agree with parts of what you have been saying in yours

You've contradicted yourself in both posts SP and I strongly disagree with certain parts of both. Sorry.

 

[shelfboy68]

I agree with everything else you say, but what you cannot see is that United and Chelsea have had results like ours last night - even in the middle of winning lots of trophies.

SP your right every team does have shit result sometimes but these defeats to west ham are happening a bit to often the last few years, we know how much they hate us yet we do not raise our game sufficiently to deal with this.

 

[aliyid]

Which version of events are we agreeing on here:

• Didn't pick a strong enough team (Poch didn't take it seriously)
• Picked too many first team regulars (players didn't take it seriously)
• Put out a stronger squad than anybody expected, went into a good lead and switched off in front of a half-empty stadium (fans didn't take it seriously)

Personally I'm floating between 2 & 3 but all will be forgotten if/when we turn over Utd on Sat

 

[Bobbins]

Which version of events are we agreeing on here:

• Didn't pick a strong enough team (Poch didn't take it seriously)
• Picked too many first team regulars (players didn't take it seriously)
• Put out a stronger squad than anybody expected, went into a good lead and switched off in front of a half-empty stadium (fans didn't take it seriously)

Personally I'm floating between 2 & 3 but all will be forgotten if/when we turn over Utd on Sat

2 and 3 with a sprinkling of 1.

All those scenarios have a bearing because the overall point is the dismissing of the domestic cups (and previously the Europa League) as being beneath us somehow. This comes from every aspect of the club, staff, players and fans. It's a general arrogant atmosphere that pervades Tottenham Hotspur at the moment when it comes to domestic cup success (or lack of).

And no, it won't all be forgotten if we win (not by me, anyway).

We have the same thing most years when we get dumped out in the cups under Poch - and most people do forget as they get caught up in the euphoria of finishing high up in the league.

But we still don't have a trophy to show for all our progress, and until we do, we need to stop acting like the cups are beneath us as fans and as a club, and we need to stop excusing failure by saying "all will be forgotten as long as we win the next game".