Will we win a trophy under Poch?

[Guntz]

No Dier in the starting 11 please, looked well off the pace the last couple of games.

Play the same team that beat Liverpool

 

[SpurinChicago]

If I told you we would never win a trophy under Pochettino, would you fire him now?

 

[dontcallme]

If I told you we would never win a trophy under Pochettino, would you fire him now?

I wouldn't fire Poch based on anything any SC poster told me.

Pretty sure I don't have the authority to fire anyone anyway.

 

[ohtottenham!]

If I told you we would never win a trophy under Pochettino, would you fire him now?

Unreal conditional, pointing to a future unknown. Playing your game where Poch doesn't win anything in some future that you know, we still might not decide to fire him.

Just having Poch may pave the path to future success. He may not win us trophies, but he may take us to a point where another coach has the solid foundations that Poch laid, and can take us to the next step.

Meanwhile, Poch's doing an outstanding job in reality, right now, and I think he'll be in charge when we get our next trophy.

 

[spurs9]

Sir Alex Ferguson's United wasn't built on "shit happens".

Poch's Tottenham isn't built on "shit happens" either. When Utd won the CL & PL double in 2007/08, they were knocked out of the LC by Championship side Coventry, so yeah, "shit happens".

 

[Spurger King]

Well, for me, top 4 beats the Carabao hands down. Getting further in the CL than we've done in recent years also. Don't think I'll be left with any great Carabao regret, whatever happens. I'd love us to win the FA Cup again though.

In terms of our development I’d probably place CL qualification this season above a League Cup win and/or going far in the CL this season. It will be massive to have CL football when we hit the new stadium, especially after a season at Wembley.

 

[SpursDave88]

Poch's Tottenham isn't built on "shit happens" either. When Utd won the CL & PL double in 2007/08, they were knocked out of the LC by Championship side Coventry, so yeah, "shit happens".

So it is said, so it shall be done. CL, PL double here we come.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Shit happened and they lost games. They got knocked out of league cups as well remember.

Unlikely after taking a two goal lead.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

For the next 3 years the league is most important. Establish ourselves as a top 3 team then a lot of silverware will come automatically.

Prioritizing Cups at this moment could jeopardize our league position. Getting one trophy now and potentially none in the future.
I would say we are calculating risks at the moment: Field a team with a good chance to win, but saving players and increasing the probability to lose. I'm all for it.

That doesn't mean we cannot get a trophy now and in many ways it would be very important for the players and also the press. Just give us the title and we all shut up

Bit like ordering a pizza i suspect.

We have finished, 2,3,5,6,5,4,5,4. over the past few seasons winning fuck all.

Next February we will be able to celebrate ten years since we won a Trophy. So when you say "silverware will come automatically", make sure when you order my pizza add pineapple, and extra salami, there's a good chap.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Poch's Tottenham isn't built on "shit happens" either. When Utd won the CL & PL double in 2007/08, they were knocked out of the LC by Championship side Coventry, so yeah, "shit happens".

Sort of ruins his career if you ask me.....

Alex Ferguson won 38 trophies as manager, including 13 Premier League titles, 5 FA Cups and 2 UEFA Champions Leagues, between 1986 and 2013, when he announced his retirement.

 

[Phomesy]

Bit like ordering a pizza i suspect.

We have finished, 2,3,5,6,5,4,5,4. over the past few seasons winning fuck all.

Next February we will be able to celebrate ten years since we won a Trophy. So when you say "silverware will come automatically", make sure when you order my pizza add pineapple, and extra salami, there's a good chap.

I've enjoyed the last three seasons more than any other in the last 20 - with the possible exception of the bale/modric/VDW Champions league run where we won fuck all too.

We won the league cup under Ramos and went nowhere. I'll stick fat with the bloke whose taken us to 3rd and then 2nd playing imperious football against all comers thank you very much.

Don't know you're alive some of you lot

 

[sparx100]

I hate this "they haven't won a trophy" bollocks.

I've seen us win trophies at various times over the last few decades, it didn't altar my perspective of how good those teams were one bit. I remember Pleats team that blew it at the final (or close) hurdle in three competitions as one of the best Spurs teams I've watched and Graham's team that did win a trophy as pretty fucking meh.

Look at Arsenal, been winning cups regularly the last three or four years, their manager still gets shit almost weekly, and their players are constantly called legends.

We've got the best coach we've had for 50 years, some really good players, play the best football we have for 50 years give or take a season or two here and there in that time.

Winning the league cup won't alter that reality.

My view BC is that winning is a mentality. Sure this team is the best i have seen in my life as a fan but what do they have to show for it?

I can't fault the team that Poch put out against west ham - it was strong enough, but they took their foot off the gas in the 2nd half thinking they had done enough.

Of course we need to be looking at bigger trophies but Danny Rose said in his infamous interview that he wanted trophies and Harry Kane has alluded to the same. There are probably others that i cannot remember.

Players don't want to be remembered for finishing second and third in the league or for playing in a good team that played amazing football, they want to be remembered for scoring a goal in a cup final, lofting a trophy and having a good cv behind their football career.

I get that we cannot win every game but we were 2-0 uo against a team in poor form and we gave it up. I was conditioned from an early age to expect these kind of losses regularly but not anymore which makes it hurt more.

Trophies bring exposure to the club, give players what they ultimately want and give the fans bragging rights over their mates.

I am not saying we should be aiming for the league cup but surely we have more chance in that than the champions league or the premier league which i would love to win but as a club we do not have the resource to achieve that yet in my opinion.

 

[Bobbins]

Poch's Tottenham isn't built on "shit happens" either. When Utd won the CL & PL double in 2007/08, they were knocked out of the LC by Championship side Coventry, so yeah, "shit happens".

How likely are we to win the CL and PL double?

How many trophies had United won in the previous, say, ten years when they lost to Coventry?

This argument keeps coming up and people keep completely and utterly missing the point. Other big sides going out of the cups is totally irrelevant because they were already winning and had won trophies. We have won nothing.

 

[Bobbins]

I've enjoyed the last three seasons more than any other in the last 20 - with the possible exception of the bale/modric/VDW Champions league run where we won fuck all too.

We won the league cup under Ramos and went nowhere. I'll stick fat with the bloke whose taken us to 3rd and then 2nd playing imperious football against all comers thank you very much.

Don't know you're alive some of you lot

So you're saying winning the League Cup (5 games in an entire season) will mean we slip back out of the top six, or even top four?

Care to show any evidence for that? It's been suggested repeatedly by people that winning three more LC games would for some unknown reason totally ruin our season.

Why?

 

[Lilbaz]

How likely are we to win the CL and PL double?

How many trophies had United won in the previous, say, ten years when they lost to Coventry?

This argument keeps coming up and people keep completely and utterly missing the point. Other big sides going out of the cups is totally irrelevant because they were already winning and had won trophies. We have won nothing.

What would you have liked us to do differently? Should we have played kane and eriksen and then rested them against utd or madrid?

 

[Bobbins]

What would you have liked us to do differently? Should we have played kane and eriksen and then rested them against utd or madrid?

Nope, as I must've said 5849263 times now, the team was fine - it's the attitude of the club and fans that we're too good for the domestic cups that I have a problem with.

 

[dontcallme]

I hate this "they haven't won a trophy" bollocks.

I've seen us win trophies at various times over the last few decades, it didn't altar my perspective of how good those teams were one bit. I remember Pleats team that blew it at the final (or close) hurdle in three competitions as one of the best Spurs teams I've watched and Graham's team that did win a trophy as pretty fucking meh.

Look at Arsenal, been winning cups regularly the last three or four years, their manager still gets shit almost weekly, and their players are constantly called legends.

We've got the best coach we've had for 50 years, some really good players, play the best football we have for 50 years give or take a season or two here and there in that time.

Winning the league cup won't alter that reality.

All fair points.

I don't think we canwrite off the cups too much though. As a 35 year old fan my happiest Spurs memory was seeing us win the FA Cup in 1991. We finished 10th that season but I can't remember the league games, in my defence I was 8.

I loved our Keane and Berbatov partnership and can watch old footage of them for hours. Seeing them lift the cup and embrace was a great memory.

The 90s was a poor era for us so while the 1999 win was nothing major,certainly didn't lead to anything, it at least gave us a little cheer.

Naturally we need to improve our club in all areas. The reality is achieving top four does bring in extra revenue and prestige, more so than a domestic cup.

But for me fans should enjoy the magic of cup competitiions. Enjoy the day at Wembley and the big occasion.

You mention Arsenal going diwnhill. At least their fans can take solice in knowing that during their down period they still won back to back FA Cups.

 

[Bobbins]

I hate this "they haven't won a trophy" bollocks.

I've seen us win trophies at various times over the last few decades, it didn't altar my perspective of how good those teams were one bit. I remember Pleats team that blew it at the final (or close) hurdle in three competitions as one of the best Spurs teams I've watched and Graham's team that did win a trophy as pretty fucking meh.

Look at Arsenal, been winning cups regularly the last three or four years, their manager still gets shit almost weekly, and their players are constantly called legends.

We've got the best coach we've had for 50 years, some really good players, play the best football we have for 50 years give or take a season or two here and there in that time.

Winning the league cup won't alter that reality.

Look at Arsenal? The moment we try to take the piss out of Arsenal for our five minutes of superiority is the same moment they can turn round and point to 20 years of domination, and more pointedly, they can also point to the last few seasons of us performing so much better and still show off their shiny FA Cups in their trophy cabinet.

The major piss take with Arsenal for the last several years was that they finished top 4 every season but never won anything. They've won three FA Cups in four years now - just because their idiot fans call for Wenger's head, or the dumb media makes out they're failing, the history books will show another three trophies, the most successful club in the history of the FA Cup (that used to be us!).

And the whole point with Arsenal being criticised is that they've consistently fallen short of the major titles, which is why the domestic cups mean less for them. We haven't won anything - no Leagues, no CL's, and more to the point no domestic cups either.

We are not an uber club. We are not a winning club. We do however appear to be the first club in history to decide that we can skip over the domestic cups and head straight for the two major trophies, which no-one else has ever done (the oft-quoted references to Jose targeting the LC as a trophy to get any new club off to a winning start - which works).

 

[Bus-Conductor]

All fair points.

I don't think we canwrite off the cups too much though. As a 35 year old fan my happiest Spurs memory was seeing us win the FA Cup in 1991. We finished 10th that season but I can't remember the league games, in my defence I was 8.

I loved our Keane and Berbatov partnership and can watch old footage of them for hours. Seeing them lift the cup and embrace was a great memory.

The 90s was a poor era for us so while the 1999 win was nothing major,certainly didn't lead to anything, it at least gave us a little cheer.

Naturally we need to improve our club in all areas. The reality is achieving top four does bring in extra revenue and prestige, more so than a domestic cup.

But for me fans should enjoy the magic of cup competitiions. Enjoy the day at Wembley and the big occasion.

You mention Arsenal going diwnhill. At least their fans can take solice in knowing that during their down period they still won back to back FA Cups.

I’m not anti cup success, I just don’t agree with pundits who are saying - and I hear this a lot lately - “they haven’t won a trophy yet” as if winning a league or fa cup is needed to validate that this team is very good. It’s typical “proper football man” type jargon.

I’ve enjoyed every cup win we’ve had in the last four decades. But I enjoy much more feeling like we are a serious football team over a period of a few years and not a bit of a “lads, it’s Tottenham” joke.

Going into games against the very best teams without a timid inferiority complex feels bloody good. As does knowing everyone else fears us.

It’s not quite the same brief elation as a cup win, but I wouldn’t swap it for that more long lasting feeling of footballing well being we have enjoyed lately.

Success in the league brings CL football, which brings the revenues and kudos that brings a better quality of player that improves your overall squad which makes cups a more likely by-product.

Poch has that priority right.

 

[riggi]

In terms of our development I’d probably place CL qualification this season above a League Cup win and/or going far in the CL this season. It will be massive to have CL football when we hit the new stadium, especially after a season at Wembley.

I get that and agree. However, how long do you think that lasts? If we are 5 years down the line and all that time we have finished top 4 and got past the group stage but not actually won anything, but keep "developing" is that still acceptable?

I'm just interested to know people's time limits, I guess.