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Will we win a trophy under Poch?

Will Poch win us a trophy?

  • Yes - Poch will get us some silver

    Votes: 143 62.4%
  • No - we'll always be the nearly men

    Votes: 54 23.6%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 32 14.0%

  • Total voters
    229

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,986
81,918
I’m not anti cup success, I just don’t agree with pundits who are saying - and I hear this a lot lately - “they haven’t won a trophy yet” as if winning a league or fa cup is needed to validate that this team is very good. It’s typical “proper football man” type jargon.

I’ve enjoyed every cup win we’ve had in the last four decades. But I enjoy much more feeling like we are a serious football team over a period of a few years and not a bit of a “lads, it’s Tottenham” joke.

Going into games against the very best teams without a timid inferiority complex feels bloody good. As does knowing everyone else fears us.

It’s not quite the same brief elation as a cup win, but I wouldn’t swap it for that more long lasting feeling of footballing well being we have enjoyed lately.

Success in the league brings CL football, which brings the revenues and kudos that brings a better quality of player that improves your overall squad which makes cups a more likely by-product.

Poch has that priority right.

Agreed.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,986
81,918
I get that and agree. However, how long do you think that lasts? If we are 5 years down the line and all that time we have finished top 4 and got past the group stage but not actually won anything, but keep "developing" is that still acceptable?

I'm just interested to know people's time limits, I guess.

Guess it truly depends on whether we are truly developing or at some point start stagnating.

We are doing better in the league and CL than we were at the same point last season.

If we continue in this manner then I am certain we will win something. If we don't then I'm not convinced we actually are developing.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Look at Arsenal? The moment we try to take the piss out of Arsenal for our five minutes of superiority is the same moment they can turn round and point to 20 years of domination, and more pointedly, they can also point to the last few seasons of us performing so much better and still show off their shiny FA Cups in their trophy cabinet.

The major piss take with Arsenal for the last several years was that they finished top 4 every season but never won anything. They've won three FA Cups in four years now - just because their idiot fans call for Wenger's head, or the dumb media makes out they're failing, the history books will show another three trophies, the most successful club in the history of the FA Cup (that used to be us!).

And the whole point with Arsenal being criticised is that they've consistently fallen short of the major titles, which is why the domestic cups mean less for them. We haven't won anything - no Leagues, no CL's, and more to the point no domestic cups either.

We are not an uber club. We are not a winning club. We do however appear to be the first club in history to decide that we can skip over the domestic cups and head straight for the two major trophies, which no-one else has ever done (the oft-quoted references to Jose targeting the LC as a trophy to get any new club off to a winning start - which works).


We've treated the domestic cups exactly how the "uber clubs" have. Mourinho, Conte and Guardiola all made changes and rotated their teams this week. We probably played more experienced players than all of those teams I think. Chelsea played 4 kids.

And they and we all did that for the same logical reasons. Not because we are "skipping" domestic cups, but because all of us have limited resources (i.e. squads with finite amount of players) and we must all prioritise and we all prioritise League, CL then domestic cups.

And like some of those we also already reached a cup final under Poch, and a semi-final. How does that suggest we are skipping them?

The uber clubs have all done the same for years, play rotated sides for early rounds then more full strength for semis and finals.

The point about arsenal is that the media and pundits will always find a stick to beat you with if you let them dictate your agenda. For 90 odd clubs in England finishing top four and winning nothing for 20 years would be nirvana. But when you're that club suddenly it's failure according to the punditry mob. Then they finish top four and win a cup or two and it's "yeah, same old Arsenal, finish top four, win a cup, but they aren't winning the league". It's just the pundits needing something to say.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Nope, as I must've said 5849263 times now, the team was fine - it's the attitude of the club and fans that we're too good for the domestic cups that I have a problem with.

As i've also said a million times the club and fans would be overjoyed to win a domestic trophy.

At the end of the day you are pissed off that we lost and the way we did. Guess what? So is everyone else including poch the players and the fans (even if they say they don't care).

Vent away. Get it out of your system.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
We've treated the domestic cups exactly how the "uber clubs" have. Mourinho, Conte and Guardiola all made changes and rotated their teams this week. We probably played more experienced players than all of those teams I think. Chelsea played 4 kids.

And they and we all did that for the same logical reasons. Not because we are "skipping" domestic cups, but because all of us have limited resources (i.e. squads with finite amount of players) and we must all prioritise and we all prioritise League, CL then domestic cups.

And like some of those we also already reached a cup final under Poch, and a semi-final. How does that suggest we are skipping them?

The uber clubs have all done the same for years, play rotated sides for early rounds then more full strength for semis and finals.

The point about arsenal is that the media and pundits will always find a stick to beat you with if you let them dictate your agenda. For 90 odd clubs in England finishing top four and winning nothing for 20 years would be nirvana. But when you're that club suddenly it's failure according to the punditry mob. Then they finish top four and win a cup or two and it's "yeah, same old Arsenal, finish top four, win a cup, but they aren't winning the league". It's just the pundits needing something to say.

Ok this is the very last time I'll say it. I must have now said this on every single page of this thread at least once.

I don't have a problem with the team we put out. I don't have a problem with rotating players for the cups.

My problem is with the attitude of the fans in particular, and the club as well, that we're too good for the domestic cups now, like we're an uber club. We're not, and we're not.

I'm totally done with this subject now.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Nope, as I must've said 5849263 times now, the team was fine - it's the attitude of the club and fans that we're too good for the domestic cups that I have a problem with.


I don't think any fans really think that, they just understand the hierarchy of priority to sustain a proper league and CL campaign year on year means league Cup and FA Cup compromise. Even a little CL compromise and definitely Europa compromise.

We'd all enjoy a cup win. Nobody really actively wanted to lose to West Ham, including the players, they just weren't our best 11 and came a little unstuck.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Ok this is the very last time I'll say it. I must have now said this on every single page of this thread at least once.

I don't have a problem with the team we put out. I don't have a problem with rotating players for the cups.

My problem is with the attitude of the fans in particular, and the club as well, that we're too good for the domestic cups now, like we're an uber club. We're not, and we're not.

I'm totally done with this subject now.


Again, it's not for anyone to tell fans how to think, if some of us empathise with prioritising the league, and choose to accept that that will inevitably weaken our cup teams and ergo our chances of winning domestic cups then we are entitled to do that, it's not that any of us are anti the idea of a cup win, we just appreciate that sacrifices need to be made when you prioritise and aren't going to get angry with the coach, or other fans for understanding that.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Again, it's not for anyone to tell fans how to think, if some of us empathise with prioritising the league, and choose to accept that that will inevitably weaken our cup teams and ergo our chances of winning domestic cups then we are entitled to do that, it's not that any of us are anti the idea of a cup win, we just appreciate that sacrifices need to be made when you prioritise and aren't going to get angry with the coach, or other fans for understanding that.

@Bobbins
Just to add to this, we also understand that we should still be able to put out a side that can beat most opposition (who will also often be rotating too - as West Ham did). And some of us also think that the domestic cups also serve a valuable remit of allowing squad and youth players to get very valuable game time so that when they are needed they have at least got some first team mileage on their clock.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
Again, it's not for anyone to tell fans how to think, if some of us empathise with prioritising the league, and choose to accept that that will inevitably weaken our cup teams and ergo our chances of winning domestic cups then we are entitled to do that, it's not that any of us are anti the idea of a cup win, we just appreciate that sacrifices need to be made when you prioritise and aren't going to get angry with the coach, or other fans for understanding that.

I saw actual real people on here and on social media saying they wanted to lose the game, that they didn't care when we did lose, that it was a good thing that we lost, and even one on here who said he wouldn't even celebrate winning the League Cup because he thought it was a total waste of time.

You're giving our fans far, far too much credit :LOL:
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
As i've also said a million times the club and fans would be overjoyed to win a domestic trophy.

At the end of the day you are pissed off that we lost and the way we did. Guess what? So is everyone else including poch the players and the fans (even if they say they don't care).

Vent away. Get it out of your system.

100% not the case. Completely and utterly incorrect. Luckily I know exactly what I think and why I think it. I'm afraid despite your insistence, you don't Baz.
 

nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
41,857
25,919
I saw actual real people on here and on social media saying they wanted to lose the game, that they didn't care when we did lose, that it was a good thing that we lost, and even one on here who said he wouldn't even celebrate winning the League Cup because he thought it was a total waste of time.

You're giving our fans far, far too much credit :LOL:
I haven't seen any of these comments, so it would clearly seem that it's a minority.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
I haven't seen any of these comments, so it would clearly seem that it's a minority.

That makes it ok then. I'll make sure in the future to definitely avoid voicing my opinion on anything unless at least 50.1% of people are officially incorrect.
 

Rufusman

Member
Jun 19, 2005
56
15
The people who say they didn't care about losing to West Ham the other night have obviously never worked in a place full of their supporters.
 

nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
41,857
25,919
That makes it ok then. I'll make sure in the future to definitely avoid voicing my opinion on anything unless at least 50.1% of people are officially incorrect.
You just appear to be ranting at an opinion that doesn't really seem to exist.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
100% not the case. Completely and utterly incorrect. Luckily I know exactly what I think and why I think it. I'm afraid despite your insistence, you don't Baz.

A fan threw a cup of piss at west ham fans. Does that mean spurs fans, poch and the players find it acceptable to throw piss on away fans? No it doesn't it just means we have a few fans that are idiots.

You think it's not right that some of our fans don't care about the domestic cups, so do 99% of our supporters including me. Do you really think that poch or the players don't want to win an fa cup or league cup? Because i don't.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I saw actual real people on here and on social media saying they wanted to lose the game, that they didn't care when we did lose, that it was a good thing that we lost, and even one on here who said he wouldn't even celebrate winning the League Cup because he thought it was a total waste of time.

You're giving our fans far, far too much credit :LOL:


But that's like one fan out of tens of thousands. I'm talking more about the general consensus.
 

riggi

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2008
48,487
104,720
The people who say they didn't care about losing to West Ham the other night have obviously never worked in a place full of their supporters.

Totally agree. Even being in the ground seeing how much they celebrate and take the piss is so much more than Arsenal or Chelsea.

Spread the hate people!
 

gerishep

Connected to the Spurs.
Aug 2, 2004
1,159
1,955
We don't invest enough in the 1st team to win the PL or CL not enough depth to squad. Poch has said he's not interested in the 2 domestic cups so, no we won't win anything anytime soon. 3 years before we win a trophy.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,986
81,918
We don't invest enough in the 1st team to win the PL or CL not enough depth to squad. Poch has said he's not interested in the 2 domestic cups so, no we won't win anything anytime soon. 3 years before we win a trophy.

Literally unbelievable people actually think this.
 
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