Winter Break

cider spurs

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#21
Love my footie over the festive period. Can't handle the pub, all the once a year drinkers cluttering up the bar, chatting shite and kicking off.

Football and family has always been my festive period. Long may it continue.

As for reducing the league to 18 teams to accommodate a break.

See you Arsenal...you owe us this. West Ham or Chelsea the other...just because.
 

'O Zio

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#22
Not really. Matches on tv will probably be the same just less 15:00 saturday games. Meaning the tv pot would be split between 18 rather than 20 making up for lost gate revenue.
It wont happen because 2/3 of prem chairmen would have to vote for it. Which as you've seen this year wont happen because half the league are scared of being relegated, they are not going to vote to make it more likely.

If anything it would be the league cup with prem teams putting in u21 sides or something.
The 3pm kickoffs aren't shown in the UK but they are everywhere else around the world, and I believe the PL makes most of it's money from it's international TV deals. Assuming I've done the maths right, having 18 teams would mean only 306 matches in total as opposed to the 380 we have at the moment. I don't know how much they make from international TV deals, sponsorships, etc. per game but I imagine it's fairly significant and losing that X74 is definitely a significant amount of money to sacrifice. Even if split between fewer teams, each team would still get less than they do currently and the PL as a whole would make significantly less.
 

Lilbaz

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#23
The 3pm kickoffs aren't shown in the UK but they are everywhere else around the world, and I believe the PL makes most of it's money from it's international TV deals. Assuming I've done the maths right, having 18 teams would mean only 306 matches in total as opposed to the 380 we have at the moment. I don't know how much they make from international TV deals, sponsorships, etc. per game but I imagine it's fairly significant and losing that X74 is definitely a significant amount of money to sacrifice. Even if split between fewer teams, each team would still get less than they do currently and the PL as a whole would make significantly less.
At the moment it's £3.2bn international, £5.1bn domestic. Obviously this will change.
How many of those games are played at the same time? Yes nbc put one game on tv and another on the net but will it significantly drop their bid to not have a game on the net?
It's all moot anyway as wont happen.
 

'O Zio

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#24
At the moment it's £3.2bn international, £5.1bn domestic. Obviously this will change.
How many of those games are played at the same time? Yes nbc put one game on tv and another on the net but will it significantly drop their bid to not have a game on the net?
It's all moot anyway as wont happen.
Well as an example NBC currently has 3 games on the Saturday and then 2 on Sunday, with the rest of the games streaming on their "premier league pass" style paid subscription service, so all of the games are actually available. I don't know how it works in the rest of the world though to be honest.

You're right, the games that they would lose would probably be ones that they weren't showing on the actual channels anyway. I guess it would just come down to how much competition there was for the bid. If they're not prepared to pay the same rate for fewer games but someone else is then obviously it wouldn't matter in terms of TV revenue I suppose. But there'd still be fewer actual games and so even without knowing the actual numbers of sponsorships, matchday revenues etc. etc. my prediction would be that the PL would earn less money than if it played 20 games. All hypothetical though I suppose.

Either way, as you say, it's not going to happen anyway (which was my main point in the first place :D )
 

nailsy

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#25
They aren't thinking about reducing the size of the league. Not sure why people think they would? This season is finishing two weeks early because of the world cup so we're already getting all of the games into a shortened season as it is.
 
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cwy21

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#26
A good solution would be to give each team a weekend without a league match in January/February, but stagger it so you don't have entire weekends without football. It's similar to what the National Hockey League does where every team gets a 10 day break during the season, but only a handful of teams are in their break at any one time or the NFL with it's bye weeks.

So for this season, January and February could have looked like this.

Jan 6/7: FA Cup 3rd round
Jan 13/14: 6 Premier League teams get this weekend off
Jan 19/20: 8 Premier League teams get this weekend off
Jan 27/28: FA Cup 4th Round
Feb 3/4: 6 Premier League teams get this weekend off

There will be things like the mid week league games, League Cup semis and FA Cup replays during mid-weeks, but I think this strikes the balance by giving teams 10 to 13 days off.
 
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nailsy

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#27
A good solution would be to give each team a weekend without a league match in January/February, but stagger it so you don't have entire weekends without football. It's similar to what the National Hockey League does where every team gets a 10 day break during the season, but only a handful of teams are in their break at any one time or the NFL with it's bye weeks.

So for this season, January and February could have looked like this.

Jan 6/7: FA Cup 3rd round
Jan 13/14: 6 Premier League teams get this weekend off
Jan 19/20: 8 Premier League teams get this weekend off
Jan 27/28: FA Cup 4th Round
Feb 3/4: 6 Premier League teams get this weekend off

There will be things like the mid week league games, League Cup semis and FA Cup replays during mid-weeks, but I think this strikes the balance by giving teams 10 to 13 days off.
That would destroy my Fantasy League. No way thats getting approved :mad:
 

'O Zio

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#28
One thing they definitely should cut out is Sky faffing around with the christmas fixtures like they did this year. They had games spread out across virtually every day of the week which meant teams who played one round of fixture "early" (i.e. on the Monday) then had a much bigger rest before the second round of fixtures the following weekend than teams who played the first round of fixtures later (i.e. on the Thursday/Friday). For the christmas fixtures everybody should play on the same days each time so that you don't have one team with a 7 day break and others with a 2 day break like happened this year.

For example, this year some teams played something like Monday, Saturday, Thursday, while other teams played Thursday, Saturday, Tuesday, which just isn't fair.
 

talkshowhost86

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#29
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

There's a very easy way to ease the fixture congestion and that's to get rid of the League Cup.

Play league games on those weeks instead, and then build in the break after the FA Cup 3rd round.

Done.
 

nailsy

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#30
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

There's a very easy way to ease the fixture congestion and that's to get rid of the League Cup.

Play league games on those weeks instead, and then build in the break after the FA Cup 3rd round.

Done.
But why? It's in my top three domestic competitions.

Personally I don't see the big deal in clubs making lots of changes to their sides when they play cup games. Clubs have squads, they should be allowed to use them as they please. The clubs could also make rotation less of a big deal by making it clear that they will be rotating in the cups and by not including Cup games in the cost of a season ticket. Or at least giving fans the option of buying one that didn't include cup games.
 

talkshowhost86

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#32
But why? It's in my top three domestic competitions.

Personally I don't see the big deal in clubs making lots of changes to their sides when they play cup games. Clubs have squads, they should be allowed to use them as they please. The clubs could also make rotation less of a big deal by making it clear that they will be rotating in the cups and by not including Cup games in the cost of a season ticket. Or at least giving fans the option of buying one that didn't include cup games.
I just really don't see what it adds to the calendar anymore.

Nobody really cares who wins it.

It doesn't even have a bearing on the Europa places these days because it's pretty much always won by a side that's already qualified anyway. Plus even if sides do then get into Europe through that competition they don't give it a go.

I just think it offers very little in the way of interest these days, the authorities clearly don't give a shit any more as proved by them farming out the draw to somewhere in China, and with the search for a way to have a winter break this seems like the easiest option.

Any other way of getting a Winter break will just cause congestion elsewhere in the season.
 

Lilbaz

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#33
I just really don't see what it adds to the calendar anymore.

Nobody really cares who wins it.

It doesn't even have a bearing on the Europa places these days because it's pretty much always won by a side that's already qualified anyway. Plus even if sides do then get into Europe through that competition they don't give it a go.

I just think it offers very little in the way of interest these days, the authorities clearly don't give a shit any more as proved by them farming out the draw to somewhere in China, and with the search for a way to have a winter break this seems like the easiest option.

Any other way of getting a Winter break will just cause congestion elsewhere in the season.
For the clubs from the lower leagues it means a hell of a lot though.

Wouldn't mind seeing the premier league being limited to u21's but they start in the first round as well.
Gives youngsters a chance to play competitive games.
 

'O Zio

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#34
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

There's a very easy way to ease the fixture congestion and that's to get rid of the League Cup.

Play league games on those weeks instead, and then build in the break after the FA Cup 3rd round.

Done.
Exactly. The FA Cup has lost a lot of it's prestige but at least it has a great history to fall back on. The league cup is just exactly the same as the FA Cup but minus any semblance of prestige or history. I've never understood the point in it. I don't know of any other league that has 2 domestic cups.
 

'O Zio

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#35
For the clubs from the lower leagues it means a hell of a lot though.
I don't know if it does really. Obviously they get decent money if they go to the latter rounds and get a massive draw, but that's only a tiny proportion of the clubs every year. What people forget is that it's just as much of an inconvenience for lower league clubs as it is for PL clubs. If you're fighting for your survival in the football league at the bottom of league 2, do you really want to have to play some random league cup game against a League 1 side right before a crucial game against someone else in the relegation zone? Absolutely not. If anything it's even more of an inconvenience for those teams because they can't afford to have a big enough squad to even field a B team half the time.
 

talkshowhost86

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#36
For the clubs from the lower leagues it means a hell of a lot though.

Wouldn't mind seeing the premier league being limited to u21's but they start in the first round as well.
Gives youngsters a chance to play competitive games.
I assume you mean financially rather than in any other sense, because the lower league teams don't seem to care any more than most about putting out stronger teams.

If they really wanted to keep a competition to give them the extra revenue, then maybe just extend the EFL Cup, which already has those u21 teams.
 

Lilbaz

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#37
I assume you mean financially rather than in any other sense, because the lower league teams don't seem to care any more than most about putting out stronger teams.

If they really wanted to keep a competition to give them the extra revenue, then maybe just extend the EFL Cup, which already has those u21 teams.
Yes i mean financially.
 

nailsy

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#38
I just really don't see what it adds to the calendar anymore.

Nobody really cares who wins it.

It doesn't even have a bearing on the Europa places these days because it's pretty much always won by a side that's already qualified anyway. Plus even if sides do then get into Europe through that competition they don't give it a go.

I just think it offers very little in the way of interest these days, the authorities clearly don't give a shit any more as proved by them farming out the draw to somewhere in China, and with the search for a way to have a winter break this seems like the easiest option.

Any other way of getting a Winter break will just cause congestion elsewhere in the season.
That's just a premier league mentality though. The PL may offer the eventual winners, but the premier league clubs only make up roughly a quarter of the teams in it. For the non PL sides it offers them a great chance to play a glamour tie.
I disagree that no one cares who wins it as well. The last four winners were Utd, City, Chelsea, City so the big clubs are taking it more seriously these days. If there wasn't such negative association with squad rotation then fans would be less dismissive of at as well. You could change the semi finals to a single match, although I like the two legged format, which would give you an extra week for fixtures and then just start the season a week earlier and you've got space for two extra fixtures.
 

robertgoulet

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#39
That's just a premier league mentality though. The PL may offer the eventual winners, but the premier league clubs only make up roughly a quarter of the teams in it. For the non PL sides it offers them a great chance to play a glamour tie.
I disagree that no one cares who wins it as well. The last four winners were Utd, City, Chelsea, City so the big clubs are taking it more seriously these days. If there wasn't such negative association with squad rotation then fans would be less dismissive of at as well. You could change the semi finals to a single match, although I like the two legged format, which would give you an extra week for fixtures and then just start the season a week earlier and you've got space for two extra fixtures.
I'm not sure that big clubs winning it proves that they are taking it more seriously. I'd argue that they have the depth to be able to rotate and still breeze through until the quarters/semis when they can put their "real" sides out without too much detriment to their League or Europe campaigns.
 

talkshowhost86

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#40
That's just a premier league mentality though. The PL may offer the eventual winners, but the premier league clubs only make up roughly a quarter of the teams in it. For the non PL sides it offers them a great chance to play a glamour tie.
I disagree that no one cares who wins it as well. The last four winners were Utd, City, Chelsea, City so the big clubs are taking it more seriously these days. If there wasn't such negative association with squad rotation then fans would be less dismissive of at as well. You could change the semi finals to a single match, although I like the two legged format, which would give you an extra week for fixtures and then just start the season a week earlier and you've got space for two extra fixtures.
That solution only gives you two weeks extra for the Premier League teams...if we're talking about premier league mentality.

And it's not a glamour tie because the clubs very rarely put strong teams out so they don't see it that way.

I might be wrong about this, but I think even Bristol City made changes to their team earlier in this year's competition and only started taking it seriously when they got to the quarter final.

And those last four winners don't prove anything other than the fact that those teams can afford to have massive squads. If anything that highlights how pointless a competition it is. Those teams don't even really need to try and they still get to the final.

I think if anyone took it seriously I'd be loathed to get rid of it, but for me this move to the 'Carabao Cup' really is the death knell of the tournament.
 
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