Without trying to start a row

[Flatters]

I haven't read anything but the first few lines of the first post (because I couldn't be assed to read any more) and I completely disagree. I look at our squad and see some great players all over the team, and I wonder why we're doing so badly. I think we have great players with great potential. I think the problem lies elsewhere. Perhaps just their confidence. Perhaps the coaching. Who knows?

 

[liberty]

Then why did Gerrard and Barry look much better?

DO they? :shrug:

 

[Dannyspur]

confidence starts from the back - and Robbo hasn't exactly shone his season! that has made the defenders nervy and prone to mistakes, the midfield are then thinking defensively and the service to the forwards has suffered. couple that with half the strikeforce being completely off colour and it is no wonder we are down at the bottom.

I blame Robbo!

 

[Stoof]

Then why did Gerrard and Barry look much better?

Because they were playing against farmers and accountants.

 

[Flatters]

I haven't read anything but the first few lines of the first post (because I couldn't be assed to read any more) and I completely disagree. I look at our squad and see some great players all over the team, and I wonder why we're doing so badly. I think we have great players with great potential. I think the problem lies elsewhere. Perhaps just their confidence. Perhaps the coaching. Who knows?

I tell you who doesn't know. Anyone from this forum.

 

[Nick]

Our centre midfield is shambles at the minute bring in Miguel Veloso and Kim Kallstrom then watch us be a champions league quality team in no time.

 

[Flatters]

Our centre midfield is shambles at the minute bring in Miguel Veloso and Kim Kallstrom then watch us be a champions league quality team in no time.

Yeah? You should manage our midfield then. :up:

Levy, take note.

 

[striebs]

Our centre midfield is shambles at the minute bring in Miguel Veloso and Kim Kallstrom then watch us be a champions league quality team in no time.

What if only bought in one of the people you mentioned and paired him with Jenas ?

To get the most out of the Hudd we are going to have to build the team around him like with Carrick . Otherwise should sell him .

 

[coope]

confidence starts from the back - and Robbo hasn't exactly shone his season! that has made the defenders nervy and prone to mistakes, the midfield are then thinking defensively and the service to the forwards has suffered. couple that with half the strikeforce being completely off colour and it is no wonder we are down at the bottom.

I blame Robbo!

As much as I love the guy I have to agree, if you were looking at the team as a supporter of another club, whichmost of my mates are, they all agree that robinson needs to sort it out and gain some confidence as you can tell the def are nervous

Hope he gets a good break and then comes in on fire!!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The fact that we have played pretty well at places like Old trafford and Anfield (52% possession) suggests we are definately better than mediocre in most areas, I just think that our spine is a little fragile and our manager has not made the right decisions often. Robinson is poor, Dawson slow, Kaboul inexperienced, Chimbonda loses concentration. Jol insists on playing two strikers away and they don't work hard enough when the opposition has the ball, this pushes the midfield up and exposes the defence.

I would love to see Jol play a proper 4-5-1 tonight - wih the players we have it would make sense on many levels. with Malbranque/Bale/Lennon we can attack from wide. It would compensate for the deficiencies of the individual midfielders we have and allow their individual strengths to flourish whilst offering the back 4 more protection.

But I have been advocating this for a long time and still we will almos certainly line up 442 or 44+keane+1.

 

[striebs]

so who said Bent was a priority?

Bent would be a good sub away at St James Park in late October with the wind blowing in off the Tyne .

 

[tony0379]

they will gel lads just as we did last season have faith

 

[rez9000]

In response to the actual thread subject (long post coming, be warned):

I've tried to be positive this season and I'm not going to moan. But I am going to give what I feel is an honest assessment, in my rather humble opinion. Yes, liberty, I do look at the squad and feel that there are weaknesses.

The main one, and I've posted about it before is the central midfield. We spent nothing this summer on the centre of the park, the heartbeat of a football game. Everyone knows that a match is won and lost in the midfield and we ignored it this summer.

Rather than just slate players, I'll give a rundown of good points and bad points:

Jenas:

Good Points: Good vision, reads the game very well and has an eye for goal.

Bad Points: Can't break up play, tackling weak, doesn't have the presence to stamp his authority on the game

Zokora:

Good Points: Lots of energy, can frighten the opposition with his runs.

Bad Points:Can't pass, can't tackle, can't shoot

Huddlestone:

Good points:Excellent distribution, can pick out passes very well, difficult to push off the ball.

Bad Points:Too slow to be able to break up play, tackling mediocre, sometimes goes missing entirely.

Tainio:

Good Points:Always up for it, difficult to beat, tackles well

Bad Points:Too bloody fragile and can't settle because he's always injured.

I've left off Malbranque, because although he can play CM, he's rarely done so for us.

Now, each of these players has strengths and can do particular jobs very well. Unfortunately, the weaknesses that they each bring to the game are magnified by their CM partner's weaknesses. This doesn't mean they bad players, just that they can't cover each other's faults enough to become effective in the midfield. We saw the same thing with the Gerrard-Lampard partnership for England. They just didn't gel.

What's needed are midfield players who can feed off each other's play and also mitigate their partner's weaknesses.

If Jenas is one of the pairing, then his partner should be one who can take on defensive roles, leaving JJ free to stretch defenses and link up with the strikers.

If Huddlestone is in the mix, then you need a decent and quick box-to-box midfielder who can provide help for Hudd when the opposition have the ball, but then can become a target for his passing when Spurs have the ball.

Sadly, for Tainio and Zokora, I think their problems are insoluble. You can't purchase better health for a player. And Zokora has too many weaknesses to mitigate. The only way I'd see Zokora as being useful would be in a three CM setup, with him sitting in front of a DM, but behind a proper attacking midfielder. In that scenario he wouldn't be too exposed and his runs would add options to offensive play. However, that sort of formation is defensive and wouldn't be used all that often.

Other less significant problems are a lack of organisation and discipline, the weakness of the defence and Robinson's current lack-of-form.

A bit more discipline and organisation in the team will work wonders and at at the very least steady the ship, I feel. Our players need to be told what to do and forced to stick to the gameplan. As we all know, organisation can reap wonders for a team, as Everton showed us only a few weeks ago.

The defensive weaknesses can only be solved by putting in proper defensive coaching. Many people have been saying that our defensive capability will improve once Ledley returns. Fair enough and I agree with that. But that doesn't mean that until he returns that that's an excuse for defensive weakness. There seems to be a lack of proper defensive coaching at Spurs and it needs to be resolved. And what if King doesn't return? What if he turns up on day one for training and inures himself again? What if he moves to Tanganika? Nothing is certain (apart from the Tanganika one, I think that's pretty much a no-no). Our defenders need a much more coherent defensive coaching regime.

As for Robbo's current lack-of-form, I've said my piece about that already: he needs time to get his head together. He needs a couple of weeks away from football altogether. Then he returns and instead of being dropped in at the deep-end, eased back into the team, giving him time to readjust.

Sorry about the length peeps. Just wanted to get a few things off my chest.

 

[rez9000]

I think there may be the theory that Bent is one for the future, given the likelihood of Mr. Berbatov's defection if Spurs are sin Champions Leagueo come May 2008.

Don't forget he's had his niggles. At some stage Berba will groin his strain wink and DBII will be rolled in and show us all why the money was splurgedo.

Oooh. get you with all the Frenchness! :wink:

One for the future, OK. But at 13 mil, rising to 16?!

 

[walworthyid]

In response to the actual thread subject (long post coming, be warned):

I've tried to be positive this season and I'm not going to moan. But I am going to give what I feel is an honest assessment, in my rather humble opinion. Yes, liberty, I do look at the squad and feel that there are weaknesses.

The main one, and I've posted about it before is the central midfield. We spent nothing this summer on the centre of the park, the heartbeat of a football game. Everyone knows that a match is won and lost in the midfield and we ignored it this summer.

Rather than just slate players, I'll give a rundown of good points and bad points:

Jenas:

Good Points: Good vision, reads the game very well and has an eye for goal.

Bad Points: Can't break up play, tackling weak, doesn't have the presence to stamp his authority on the game

Zokora:

Good Points: Lots of energy, can frighten the opposition with his runs.

Bad Points:Can't pass, can't tackle, can't shoot

Huddlestone:

Good points:Excellent distribution, can pick out passes very well, difficult to push off the ball.

Bad Points:Too slow to be able to break up play, tackling mediocre, sometimes goes missing entirely.

Tainio:

Good Points:Always up for it, difficult to beat, tackles well

Bad Points:Too bloody fragile and can't settle because he's always injured.

I've left off Malbranque, because although he can play CM, he's rarely done so for us.

Now, each of these players has strengths and can do particular jobs very well. Unfortunately, the weaknesses that they each bring to the game are magnified by their CM partner's weaknesses. This doesn't mean they bad players, just that they can't cover each other's faults enough to become effective in the midfield. We saw the same thing with the Gerrard-Lampard partnership for England. They just didn't gel.

What's needed are midfield players who can feed off each other's play and also mitigate their partner's weaknesses.

If Jenas is one of the pairing, then his partner should be one who can take on defensive roles, leaving JJ free to stretch defenses and link up with the strikers.

If Huddlestone is in the mix, then you need a decent and quick box-to-box midfielder who can provide help for Hudd when the opposition have the ball, but then can become a target for his passing when Spurs have the ball.

Sadly, for Tainio and Zokora, I think their problems are insoluble. You can't purchase better health for a player. And Zokora has too many weaknesses to mitigate. The only way I'd see Zokora as being useful would be in a three CM setup, with him sitting in front of a DM, but behind a proper attacking midfielder. In that scenario he wouldn't be too exposed and his runs would add options to offensive play. However, that sort of formation is defensive and wouldn't be used all that often.

Other less significant problems are a lack of organisation and discipline, the weakness of the defence and Robinson's current lack-of-form.

A bit more discipline and organisation in the team will work wonders and at at the very least steady the ship, I feel. Our players need to be told what to do and forced to stick to the gameplan. As we all know, organisation can reap wonders for a team, as Everton showed us only a few weeks ago.

The defensive weaknesses can only be solved by putting in proper defensive coaching. Many people have been saying that our defensive capability will improve once Ledley returns. Fair enough and I agree with that. But that doesn't mean that until he returns that that's an excuse for defensive weakness. There seems to be a lack of proper defensive coaching at Spurs and it needs to be resolved. And what if King doesn't return? What if he turns up on day one for training and inures himself again? What if he moves to Tanganika? Nothing is certain (apart from the Tanganika one, I think that's pretty much a no-no). Our defenders need a much more coherent defensive coaching regime.

As for Robbo's current lack-of-form, I've said my piece about that already: he needs time to get his head together. He needs a couple of weeks away from football altogether. Then he returns and instead of being dropped in at the deep-end, eased back into the team, giving him time to readjust.

Sorry about the length peeps. Just wanted to get a few things off my chest.

I honestly don't have the energy to respond to all of that but your assessment of the player's skills and attributes is flawed imo.

Jenas does not have good vision and nor generally does he have the composure on the ball to be able to use any vision he does have.

Huddlestone(ton) is not difficult to shake off the ball nor is does he have great vision. He is slow and lazy, when he does get the ball he does little with it to compensate for his weaknesses.

Zokora can tackle, he also can pass and I think he has the highest number of successful passes of all of our midfield players.

In general thoughI entirely agree with what you are saying. We have bad partnerships, not bad players. Our only real option is to play 5 in the middle, none of our players are at their best in a flat 4.

 

[SpurSince57]

I still put that down to poor defensive coaching, the quality is their, these players did not just become rubbish over the past year. I've been quite open that our defensive mess is my biggest gripe with Jol and i dont beleive it is through lack of quality in that area.

Careful Chubbs, you're in danger of starting to sound like Gibbsy!

By the same token, Jol and Hughton's ability to coach and organise the defence didn't suddenly become rubbish last summer (2006). Quite simply, injuries last season meant that we struggled to put together the same defensive line-up for more than a couple of games in a row; the CBs and, at the end of the season, LB, were particular problems. We've seen the same this season, with five different CBs and four different LBs in just nine games; that's as many as in the whole of 2005-2006. Until we get stability and the understanding and confidence that goes with it we'll continue to have problems. It's hardly helped that both Chimbonda and Robinson have been below-par, but even an on-song Robinson couldn't have compensated for what's been happening in front of him, the same way Hahnemann and Jääskeläinen haven't been able to compensate for Reading's and Bolton's defences going to pot. The other day someone accused him of 'hiding' behind our defence; when you think of it, our defence is a pretty stupid place to hide behind.

And that's without taking midfield into consideration.

 

[ChubbSpur]

Careful Chubbs, you're in danger of starting to sound like Gibbsy!

By the same token, Jol and Hughton's ability to coach and organise the defence didn't suddenly become rubbish last summer (2006). Quite simply, injuries last season meant that we struggled to put together the same defensive line-up for more than a couple of games in a row; the CBs and, at the end of the season, LB, were particular problems. We've seen the same this season, with five different CBs and four different LBs in just nine games; that's as many as in the whole of 2005-2006. Until we get stability and the understanding and confidence that goes with it we'll continue to have problems. It's hardly helped that both Chimbonda and Robinson have been below-par, but even an on-song Robinson couldn't have compensated for what's been happening in front of him, the same way Hahnemann and Jääskeläinen haven't been able to compensate for Reading's and Bolton's defences going to pot. The other day someone accused him of 'hiding' behind our defence; when you think of it, our defence is a pretty stupid place to hide behind.

And that's without taking midfield into consideration.

Im not trying to turn into Gibbs, i completely appreciate that our midfield dont do enough to prevent strikes from range among other problems. However from the way im looking at it defending set pieces and crosses (where we seem to be conceeding so many goals from) are down to coaching. I think it just depends you believe the buck for below par performance stops with the players or the coaching staff.

Perhaps im wrong, but its just my opinion.

 

[Fantasticlee]

I haven't read anything but the first few lines of the first post (because I couldn't be assed to read any more) and I completely disagree. I look at our squad and see some great players all over the team, and I wonder why we're doing so badly. I think we have great players with great potential. I think the problem lies elsewhere. Perhaps just their confidence. Perhaps the coaching. Who knows?

Not digging Flatters but out of interest, who do you consider a 'Great player' at Tottenham?
Please don't be confused between great and good or potential to be great.

 

[Fantasticlee]

they will gel lads just as we did last season have faith

I wondered when last season would be brought up.
Correct me if I'm wrong but last year hadn't we started to gel by now?

 

[StockSpur]

After last nights poor showing i feel malbranque should be in cm with zokora sitting back.

Id play any player other than dawson in cd.

We cant blame robbo after seeing how shaky our centraldefence was last night.