World Cup Match Thread Day 12 - Monday

[Spursh]

Watched the Croatia match with some Croatian friends. Awful tactics from their manager, completely disjointed and their passing lacked rhythm and cohesion. Modric and Rakitic spent most of the match in their own half, far too deep to influence proceedings (they lacked a natural holding midfielder to enable these two to move forward), so their front three were rarely utilised. His subs showed that he had no clue as to how to rectify the balance issue (kept bringing attacking players on).

Shame, as there is some real talent in that team. Hopefully with a better coach they'll do well at Euro 2016.

To be fair though, Mexico played well. Moreno looked good again, as did their midfielder Herrara. Love the manager's passion on the sidelines too

 

[Bus-Conductor]

There were plenty of complaining about it when they wanted. I wanted him more than any striker that season but the columbian pundits and etc all say he is poor with his back to goal which is why they played him off Ramos and even costa at times. Here are articles all moaning about him being poor with his back to goal and build up play

http://www.espnfc.com/fifa-world-cu...tions-as-they-defeat-ivory-coast-at-world-cup
http://www.espnfc.com/team/colombia...lombia-without-falcao-forces-tactical-rethink
http://www.givemesport.com/401061-chelsea-must-sign-lewandowski-over-falcao?&mobile=on
http://www.just-football.com/2013/0...-world-analysis-ii-ibrahimovic-rooney-suarez/
http://chewingthecoca.wordpress.com...-can-get-the-best-from-radamel-falcao-garcia/
http://www.football.co.uk/chelsea/is_falcao_the_answer_up_front_for_chelsea__rss3611692.shtml

As I said he was the best striker in the world in the air and in the box at the time and don't forget he had a buyout clause for £26million but no one came in for him.

It didnt help that his goal record wasn't great compared to europe and he also suffered abit of the "oh its portugal and Oscar Cardoza got 26 goals there the season before"

I think he is the best no.9 in the world but his link up play and his play with his back to goal though improved isn't that great

Again, I didn't say it was great, but it wasn't what he was about and not why anyone would buy him. And it was never as shit as say someone like Defoe. And his game didn't drastically improve at Atletico.

All of this has very little baring on the original point, which was AVB didn't just want big powerful players whacking the ball from 25 yards. IE Falcao and Moutinho.

 

[beats1]

Again, I didn't say it was great, but it wasn't what he was about and not why anyone would buy him. And it was never as shit as say someone like Defoe. And his game didn't drastically improve at Atletico.

All of this has very little baring on the original point, which was AVB didn't just want big powerful players whacking the ball from 25 yards. IE Falcao and Moutinho.

But I did say this one dimensional player of course Moutinho and Falcao were better as was Guarin

However I struggle to see Hulk being a top player in a top league. However I don't think we will ever see it as its hard to get out of Russia and sadly the same goes for Witsel

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Another day that didn't disappoint in terms of action. LVG continues to show off his tactical credentials, he's now beaten two (plus the durable Aussies) very tough opponents without really playing great football. That dutch team is a real curates egg of team. There are two or three world class players, but there are also a plethora of real ho hummers. There's no total football, it's very pragmatic, but he gets them playing to their strengths and to maximise the potential of their best individuals.

I really hope Mexico fuck them up, but I fear they may come a cropper the same way Chile did. Holland will suck them in and Robben will spit out.

Before the tournament I was questioning the tactical nous of Kovac and this tournament did nothing to allay those fears. It was a shitty tough group but his 4231 which morphed into a 442 most of the time just didn't make best use of the very rich assets he had at his disposal. If only he'd played a 433 he'd have got the best out of Modric/Rakatic/Perisic etc. Tonight was his tactical nadir. He fucked it up royally. Good idea putting Modric into the 10 position, but got it all wrong everywhere else, then changes just compounded earlier tactical fuck ups.

Brazil keep on keeping on.

 

[Partizan]

 

[markieboy]

Watched the Croatia match with some Croatian friends. Awful tactics from their manager, completely disjointed and their passing lacked rhythm and cohesion. Modric and Rakitic spent most of the match in their own half, far too deep to influence proceedings (they lacked a natural holding midfielder to enable these two to move forward), so their front three were rarely utilised. His subs showed that he had no clue as to how to rectify the balance issue (kept bringing attacking players on).

Shame, as there is some real talent in that team. Hopefully with a better coach they'll do well at Euro 2016.

To be fair though, Mexico played well. Moreno looked good again, as did their midfielder Herrara. Love the manager's passion on the sidelines too

I would agree with the things you said about the manager not being good enough and I think Belgium have the same problem,if they want to progress in the future then they need to invest in a top quality manager.
Really like Herrara as a player too.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I would agree with the things you said about the manager not being good enough and I think Belgium have the same problem,if they want to progress in the future then they need to invest in a top quality manager.
Really like Herrara as a player too.

Agree. Such a shame because both Croatia and Belgium have the squads to really challenge the best. For me both need to be playing a version of 433 and both need the be much better without the ball, pressing better, higher up the pitch as they aren't built to play deep, break away football.

You put Herrera or Sampaoli in charge of Croatia or Belgium they'd probably win the the tournament.

Brazil or Argentina will probably win it, and neither have the midfield quality or all round balance of skills that Croatia have.

 

[Blake Griffin]

In terms of the premiership (which is all I give a shit about where he's concerned) I think only two players scored more goals playing in a CM2 than Paulinho (6 goals and 2 assists in 28 games). Ramires for example managed 1 goals and 2 assists from 29 games

In terms of Spurs he scored /assisted 8, tackles more per game than Sandro, and averages a pass less than Eriksen a game.

I know he doesn't always look great doing what he does, I don't think he's wonder bread, he is a bit dynamically meh at times, but you either have a specialist who excels at one aspect, or you have a player like Paulinho who does a bit of everything.

In terms of the EPL and more pertinently us, what he's actually bringing to the team is pretty productive, goals/assists wise, tackles per game wise and passes per game wise. Which comes down to people basically not liking the aesthetics of he he goes about that.

Who do you think we could realistically bring in that would score more, assist more, tackle more, pass more and look better doing it ?

steve sidwell.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

steve sidwell.

Was one, Yaya Toure the other.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Was one, Yaya Toure the other.

jonjo shelvey.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

jonjo shelvey.

How long have Sidwell and Shelvey been playing in the PL...?

 

[markieboy]

How long have Sidwell and Shelvey been playing in the PL...?

Along with Paulinho...............way too long.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Along with Paulinho...............way too long.

Your comment isn't even funny. It's terribly sad.

 

[Blake Griffin]

How long have Sidwell and Shelvey been playing in the PL...?

i don't really care how long they've been playing in this league, i also don't particularly care debating over semantics on how well paulinho faired overall this season. if you've been on here long enough then you'll know i haven't formed my opinion on him over his time with spurs either. i look at paulinho and see a player with a limited skillset, i don't need 38 games to conclude that, one or two is enough. some may say chiriches didn't have a great season but no matter how he performed, i can see a talented footballer/defender in there, whether that's over one game, 10 games or 100 games it doesn't really matter. steve sidwell is largely a mediocre player but it's a legit comparison, just imagine the reaction on here 12 months ago if you knew that's the calibre of player we were signing. jonjo shelvey has talent, higher than both sidwell and paulinho, he's an unfashionable player so most probably won't recognise it.

christian eriksen had to deal with all of the same shit as paulinho but that didn't stop him from showing his talents, that's because he's a vastly superior footballer.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

i don't really care how long they've been playing in this league, i also don't particularly care debating over semantics on how well paulinho faired overall this season. if you've been on here long enough then you'll know i haven't formed my opinion on him over his time with spurs either. i look at paulinho and see a player with a limited skillset, i don't need 38 games to conclude that, one or two is enough. some may say chiriches didn't have a great season but no matter how he performed, i can see a talented footballer/defender in there, whether that's over one game, 10 games or 100 games it doesn't really matter. steve sidwell is largely a mediocre player but it's a legit comparison, just imagine the reaction on here 12 months ago if you knew that's the calibre of player we were signing. jonjo shelvey has talent, higher than both sidwell and paulinho, he's an unfashionable player so most probably won't recognise it.

christian eriksen had to deal with all of the same shit as paulinho but that didn't stop him from showing his talents, that's because he's a vastly superior footballer.

I can't argue. You are clearly the most knowledgable person about football in the universe. If you see it, it must be true.

Good day.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

jonjo shelvey.

No, only two CM2's scored more. Shelvey is not one of them.

 

[Blake Griffin]

No, only two CM2's scored more. Shelvey is not one of them.

i didn't look it up, but now you mention it, i see shelvey also assisted six to add to his six goals, in an inferior team. he's also 3.5 years younger and much more talented than paulinho. if paulinho scored 10 goals, i'll still think he's a poor footballer, if he scored 20 i'll still feel the same way. that's how many he's going to hve to score though to be a worthwhile player in any team as he's brings nothing else to the table. you hated defoe so i'm surprised you like this guy so much.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

i didn't look it up, but now you said it, i see shelvey also assisted six to add to his six goals, in an inferior team. he's also 3.5 years younger and much more talented than paulinho. if paulinho scored 10 goals, i'll still think he's a poor footballer, if he scored 20 i'll still feel the same way. that's how many he's going to hve to score though to be a worthwhile player in any team as he's brings nothing else to the table. you hated defoe so i'm surprised you like this guy so much.

But that's the point. Defoe offered fuck all apart from a mediocre (for a main striker of a top 5 club) goal tally. Paulinho tackled more per game than Sandro, passed more per game than our other CM's bar Bentaleb (and one per game less than Eriksen) scored more than any other CM2 bar Toure and Sidwell in the EPL (and more than all our other CM'sput together).

I don't like him so much, I even said he's not wonder bread. I just think he's suffering from not being brilliant at anything, but offering a decent contribution overall and being asked to play a system that asks a bit much of him - a system which few manage to excel in.

None of our other CM's are wonder bread either. None of them have managed to offer more all round than Paulinho. Bentaleb passes more per game but has contributed knish going forward and is lax defensively at times, Sandro charges around kicking people but doesn't see that much ball and gets a nose bleed past the half way line. Dembele sees less ball, scores less, slows attacks and is no better defensively.

My question to is how easy will we find a CM2 player who'll tackle more than Sandro, pass as much as Eriksen and score more than 6 a season ?

 

[markieboy]

But that's the point. Defoe offered fuck all apart from a mediocre (for a main striker of a top 5 club) goal tally. Paulinho tackled more per game than Sandro, passed more per game than our other CM's bar Bentaleb (and one per game less than Eriksen) scored more than any other CM2 bar Toure and Sidwell in the EPL (and more than all our other CM'sput together).

I don't like him so much, I even said he's not wonder bread. I just think he's suffering from not being brilliant at anything, but offering a decent contribution overall and being asked to play a system that asks a bit much of him - a system which few manage to excel in.

None of our other CM's are wonder bread either. None of them have managed to offer more all round than Paulinho. Bentaleb passes more per game but has contributed knish going forward and is lax defensively at times, Sandro charges around kicking people but doesn't see that much ball and gets a nose bleed past the half way line. Dembele sees less ball, scores less, slows attacks and is no better defensively.

My question to is how easy will we find a CM2 player who'll tackle more than Sandro, pass as much as Eriksen and score more than 6 a season ?

I have said it before that midfield is our biggest area of concern......both defensively and offensively they do a piss poor job.
We need to sell seven and replace them with 3 or 4 quality players..that alone would take this team to another level.
Paulinho is just another version of Jermaine Jenas and unfortunately we paid £17m for the pleasure.
In fact I think Jenas was a better player.

 

[Shadydan]

https://vine.co/v/MtZ2xhIjDPe