Would British players benefit from playing abroad?

[dontcallme]

I know there isn't one size that fits all but in general do people think more British players should go abroad?

It's a debate that comes up every now and again, especially when we fail, which is often.

One factor which people often seem to use is how much better players like Linekar, Rush and Hughes became after stints abroad despite their varying levels of success.

But English sides weren't allowed in Europe at the time and there were a lot less foreign players in the English leagues back then.

With the Premier league and regular European competition for many British players I wonder if going abroad is as big a factor as it once was.

I like the idea of those struggling to getting game time going abroad. Matt Derbyshire found himself in that situation but it didn't work out abroad for him.

Stambouli came over and said if he makes it in the Premiership his international career could get a big boost.

Like many things, I'm on the fence.

 

[Gbspurs]

Been a lot of incredibly 1 sided polls around here and this will be another.

Its all about context really. Taking Darius Vassell and sticking him out in Turkey isn't going to benefit anyone but a well placed youth loan overseas could be brilliant and should happen more.

Players like Tom Carroll should go and try out Spain or Italy where being small carries less of an issue, focus on developing the technical side of their game and I'd wager they would be in a stronger position to return.

 

[spursfan77]

I think so but our players don't have the motivation to do it.

 

[worcestersauce]

I've got a couple of views on this, I have been saying for years that youth players would do better to go abroad because they have little or no chance of getting into premier league teams, you only have to look at the percentage of home grown players in the top teams, mind you I'm not sure that carries much weight at the Spurs these days
My other observation is players such as Ryan Shawcross for example, who will play for Stoke for years and never win anything and never get to play in the Champions League but he is surely good enough to play in successful teams in many leagues across Europe and be playing CL football every year. I actually suggested a Bundesliga team of the quality of say, Shalke or Leverkusen, I know Lufti wasn't impressed but I stand by that call.
I guess the bottom line is the wages though.

 

[Spursidol]

Very few British playes speak a second language - contrast that to Dutch, Scandinavian, German and even French (eg Stambouli).

So its problem to move abroad and understand what the coach wants from you and to interact with other players.

So for most players its not a practical option IMO

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

I think the leagues of Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, Portugal & holland is a great place for youth not getting on in English football.

I think the top players could learn something too, although realistically there is not really a league you could conclusively say is better than EPL, Italy in the 80's was a different kettle of fish, surely only spain would qualify. Though middle end players gave shown to do well at middleish clubs in the past. Lambert at Dortmund, Elliot at Pisa..

 

[bceej]

Very few British playes speak a second language - contrast that to Dutch, Scandinavian, German and even French (eg Stambouli).

So its problem to move abroad and understand what the coach wants from you and to interact with other players.

So for most players its not a practical option IMO

Micah Richards and Ashley Cole seem to be doing OK in Italy, Bale's doing well in Spain and our own John Bostock is trying to rekindle his career in Belgium. It's got to be right for the player, yes, but perhaps there's a general hesitance when sourcing English players because of the higher wages for the quality of player you'll be getting.

 

[Spursidol]

Micah Richards and Ashley Cole seem to be doing OK in Italy, Bale's doing well in Spain and our own John Bostock is trying to rekindle his career in Belgium. It's got to be right for the player, yes, but perhaps there's a general hesitance when sourcing English players because of the higher wages for the quality of player you'll be getting.

But its a handful of British players who are playing abroad at any one time - go back 30 years and you will find its the same thing, and its before UK wages might be higher than elsewhere

 

[prawnsandwich]

The wages are too good in the EPL.
Most people's lives are improved by experiences. Aussies like Luongo routinely travel-I don't think it is in the British nature.

 

[DaSpurs]

Yes, absolutely no question in my mind. I also think the HG rule harms English/British football more than it helps.

 

[prawnsandwich]

Yes, absolutely no question in my mind. I also think the HG rule harms English/British football more than it helps.

That is a fair point. There was a big story a few years ago about British Olympic athletes doing "just enough" to warrant the very decent sponsorship money they received.
I can certainly see potentially a similar situation rising from HG status issues. ATM things are looking OK-kids are hungry.

 

[DaSpurs]

That is a fair point. There was a big story a few years ago about British Olympic athletes doing "just enough" to warrant the very decent sponsorship money they received.
I can certainly see potentially a similar situation rising from HG status issues. ATM things are looking OK-kids are hungry.

Yeah I think it directly inhibits kids from receiving their training elsewhere. Take Dier for instance, he didn't specifically choose Sporting's academy, he just lived in Lisbon because of his dad's work and was spotted by their academy. No one will choose to receive their training elsewhere because of the HG rule, and so they aren't branching out.

It's not the only factor, but IMO it's without doubt a significant one.

 

[ERO]

I think the leagues of Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, Portugal & holland is a great place for youth not getting on in English football.

I think the top players could learn something too, although realistically there is not really a league you could conclusively say is better than EPL, Italy in the 80's was a different kettle of fish, surely only spain would qualify. Though middle end players gave shown to do well at middleish clubs in the past. Lambert at Dortmund, Elliot at Pisa..

Middleish club like the Champions League winner Dortmund?

 

[UncleBuck]

I can't understand why a player wouldn't want to go and learn another culture and language given how long their peak earning potential lasts for, especially the younger players.
I take my hat off to any British player who does it as it'll only benefit them later in life if they can learn another language.
Unfortunately cash talks though so why would they move when they can get loaned out to a championship club and still get £20k a week from their parent club?
As much as I'd like to see us sign Ings I think it'd be brilliant to see him go to Spain.

 

[prawnsandwich]

I can't understand why a player wouldn't want to go and learn another culture and language given how long their peak earning potential lasts for, especially the younger players.
I take my hat off to any British player who does it as it'll only benefit them later in life if they can learn another language.
Unfortunately cash talks though so why would they move when they can get loaned out to a championship club and still get £20k a week from their parent club?
As much as I'd like to see us sign Ings I think it'd be brilliant to see him go to Spain.

Great post. Everybody likes the shekels but life is about experiences.

 

[aliyid]

Micah Richards and Ashley Cole seem to be doing OK in Italy

Not from what I've seen... Every time I've caught Fiorentina or Roma on tv Richards & Cole have been stuck on the bench

 

[mpickard2087]

I think the amount of money in the game is a problem, a player at a mid-lower table PL club who 'only' earns £20-30k a week is still likely to be out of the budget range for equivalent clubs in other leagues, even the bigger ones such as Spain.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Middleish club like the Champions League winner Dortmund?

Bit pedantic mate, historically yeh pretty much middling, much like us. They are not in the top tier of clubs and neither are we.

 

[ERO]

Bit pedantic mate, historically yeh pretty much middling, much like us. They are not in the top tier of clubs and neither are we.

You have to view it in the time of when Lambert was there. They were absolutely top dogs, with some of the best players in Europe (including Steffen Freund ), and they won the Champions League.

 

[Lufti]

I've got a couple of views on this, I have been saying for years that youth players would do better to go abroad because they have little or no chance of getting into premier league teams, you only have to look at the percentage of home grown players in the top teams, mind you I'm not sure that carries much weight at the Spurs these days
My other observation is players such as Ryan Shawcross for example, who will play for Stoke for years and never win anything and never get to play in the Champions League but he is surely good enough to play in successful teams in many leagues across Europe and be playing CL football every year. I actually suggested a Bundesliga team of the quality of say, Shalke or Leverkusen, I know Lufti wasn't impressed but I stand by that call.
I guess the bottom line is the wages though.

Hmmmmmmmm. I do actually think Ryan Shawcross is a decent player but Leverkusen or Schalke? That's a bit of a stretch for me, especially given one of Leverkusen's reserve players (Wollscheid) has gone to Stoke and is now a starter. I think you have to consider the position and the culture. For Shawcross to play in the Bundesliga would be a bit of a square pegs / round holes situation - he thrives at playing with his back to the wall, roughing people up and getting his head on the ball. In the Bundesliga, for starters, teams typically don't set up to defend, regardless of who they face. Long balls are also rarer and centre backs have to be good ball players, with positioning arguably a more key trait than tackling itself, so I don't think Shawcross would do well over there. That said, if he was still a young player potentially it would be a good move because he could go over there and improve those aforementioned traits and improve himself as an all-round player.

Answering the main question, I think it would help if more players did it but I'd stress that they should do it while they're young and before they're too set in their 'English ways'. I'm struggling to think of any English players who've gone abroad within in the last 10 years and really done well. Bale, (yes he's Welsh not English) has probably done better than anyone else, but I'm not convinced he suits the style and I don't think he's showing what he's capable of. The last couple of English players to try their luck in the Bundesliga haven't done well - Mancienne and Jennings.