It seems pretty clear that the new manager wants to clear out Parkinson's favourites - Yeates was with Parkinson at Colchester last season and was quoted as saying how much he enjoyed it there.

If so, then no reflection on anyone, really.

He's hardly played.. not even under Parkinson

The standard of youth development has been upped alot at spurs. Alot of the youth at the club are going to have to be shipped out. I think young Mark is amongst those who will leave soon.

He has great skills, but may lack the right mentality.

I was having a discussion with a mate the other day about the average life span of premiership footballers and he was under the impression that players are starting earlier, peaking earlier and then falling into decline earlier. Thinking about it, I can see his point. Players rarely make it in the big time when they're as old as Mark Yeates (the ripe old age of 21!) and more players seem to be coming to national if not global attention when they're in their mid to late teens (Messi, Ronaldo(s), Walcott, Rooney, Lennon). So are players becoming more physically fit and ready for the fight at a younger age (hence bringing on an early retirement for those who do make it) or does media hype and constant global tv coverage just make these players more prominent now than in the past? Or am I analysing things to much and it's all just down to the fitness and injury-proneness of the individual (fit Giggs versus perennially crocked Owen if you like)?

More of a rambling pub chat than a post but I wondered what other people thought...

I think your post is very interesting and agree with it - the new 'rule', loosely put is that real top players are showing their stuff at 16, 17, 18, 19 and peaking at 21, 22, 23, although there are plenty of players that don't follow that rule like Chimbonda, Lampard etc etc

I have thought this too, especially for attacking players (incidentally exactly the same process seems to be happening to test cricket fast bowlers). I have two further thoughts on why they are starting and finishing early.

1 - modern game places ever greater emphasis on sudden changes of pace. Younger players have more natural spring and acceleration.

2 - sheer weight of games is finishing players through injury earlier.

Teddy Sheringham may be seen as a miracle one-off in generations to come. Mickey Owen is pretty much all done in his mid twenties and, ominously, Aaron Lennon is going the same route by picking up what seems to be a fairly chronic knee problem early in his career.

I still think defenders can start later, and the experience that role requires demands it.

I agree with all of the points that have been made above about the youthful peaking of footballers, compared to those of the past. I also think there is another factor that has nothing to do with the actual playing of the game. It's the star-making publicity-generating celebrity-creation machine, which has created opportunities for very young men, most of them from working class backgrounds, to achieve huge wealth - through sponsorship deals at least as much as from their wages.

If you take that and combine it with improved nutrition, leading to earlier physical development, and more precise training methods being applied much earlier in life, you have a recipe for very young men becoming extremely good at a skill, parlaying it rapidly into fame/wealth/sex/trophies ... and then burning out much younger than they would have done in a previous generation.

All of which means that Yeates isn't going to make it at Spurs.

See also Lee Barnard.

That's right, DM, and financially the need to play through injury in order to prolong a career isn't there anymore. When you're making a decent salary even as a premiership squad player, why not retire at 28? Why not be content sitting out your contract like Bogarde at Chelsea, safe in the knowledge that your future is secure having not even kicked a football for three years?

It is sad to think that once some of these guys really make it big they are content to take their feet of the pedal and cruise towards the end of their career. That's certainly what a lot of ex-Hammers are saying at the moment about the current West Ham squad. Once they were up and established, the spirit and desire went away.

Which is why a top,top man manager is absolutely vital now more than ever. I read what you said about Jol talking to great lengths about fight and passion and I think as an ex-pro who was plying his trade just before the boom, he knows that these kids don't necessarily have to work hard to pick up their pay packet. They have to want to win for the man on the field next to them, to fight together and to achieve together. That's an opportunity you don't get in most other work places and something footballers may forget too easily today.

Having said that, in some ways I don't begrudge them their salaries. Most players don't become pundits, managers, actors after they retire and I'm sure enjoying the lifestyle when you're young and also earning enough for the future is a big part of their motivation.

In a way what affects me even more are the stories of ex-World Cup winners selling their medals because the game didn't give them enough of a cushion.

I agree with most of the posts above about the life span of players in the modern game. It's the same in nearly every sport due to the more efficient scouting, the money, the training etc etc. And while I think the mental element is a big part of players packing it in eriler, it's not just that they get complacent. The human body can only take so much.

I kind of think of it as "you only have so many games in you" and then the body starts packing up. That doesn't matter if you started at 17 or if you started at 23, you've got about 7-10 full seasons in you and then all the injuries, quartisone injections, training and so on catch up with your body. You have to pie the piper sooner or later. Sure, the motivation to keep playing on is important, but it's not just mental - look at Scholes/Shearer etc. They loved keeping on playing but could only do so by retiring from international football. They had to use the games they left had in them (to use my analysis) on the teams they loved, rather than playing meaningless friendlies in far flung places. That's why I think, sadly, we'll see more and more players give up retire from internationals before they retire generally - because although they are young/fit enough to play at the highest level, the toll it takes on their bodies is too great.

So, as someone said above, the importance of the Manager comes to the fore again. Not just to motivate players to keep playing as they get older, bored and wealthy. But to rotate the squad appropriately and protect the health of the players that may want to keep playing but physically cannot get out there every match.

Funny that; perhaps Jol does know what he is doing when he rotates Keane and Defoe...

i think we should let him go as its obviously if he cant get a game at hull (22rd in championship) then he will never play for spurs

I agree with Paxton Soul's point about so many games being played by young players. His comment comparing Owen with our Lennon is scary, but can only be avoided if Lennon is given time to fully recover from injury regardless of game schedules.
I also worry that Dawson is playing too many games as well, especially with some of the head injuries he has had.

Yeah think the reason he has returned is because Parky got sacked (hehe I still laugh at it now, serves you right Phill!)

But back to Yeates I don't reckon he would make it at Spurs now given the ammount of midfieldiers we have. Althought saying that Im sure he played left wing at Colchester...

A Championship player or mid-table prem team at best. At Spurs... I think the odds are against him given the quality of players we have.

I think he'd be seen as a miracle in any generation, wouldn't he?