Youth football........is this what we can expect?

[M.I.B.]

My eldest lad is 16, and plays regularly for his (quite successful) school team, here in Crawley.
He's a reasonable standard, might make County level one day, but definitely no further.
The team have produced one West Ham academy player, one is just off to Brighton full-time, and another trains with Wimbledon.
The team went un-beaten for 3 years, winning the Sussex schools cup each time, but just failing in the "Nationals".

This afternoon, they had a Nationals game at Whitgift School, Croydon.

This team is packed full of academy players. West Ham, Palace, Fulham etc etc. (my sons team only had the Wimbledon trainee playing).

My sons team were soundly beaten ( 10-1), and he was amazed at the skill level shown, especially by a big tall forward who is on Englands list, called Emanuel something.

BUT.........and here is the crux of the post:

The entire game was filled with diving, screaming, appealing, falling over and general simulation by these academy boys.
The slightest coming together would see an instant shout and fall to the ground by these "young pros" and the more they got away with, the more they tried. It was a disgrace.

My lads team got so fed up they resorted to taking deliberate swipes at them, and received numerous bookings as a result, but he has come home totally demoralized and fed up.

Is this what we can expect for the future?....even more of this?
WHO is telling the boys to react like this? and why, because they have un-doubted talent?

If the FA are serious about this working group thing, then someone needs to step in quick and sort this.

 

[Spurger King]

That's the biggest problem with the foundations of football in England. It's all about a winning at all costs attitude. In Spain it's fairly common in the academies to not play competitive matches until a much later age. Instead the focus is on technique.

 

[beats1]

Also worth noting that academy players are more likely to dive and avoid contact as they are told not to give a 100% in these matches as a injury could end their career often players have to sign a agreement that cant play footy outside the academy

As for the skill shown, there have always been these type of players but the problem academy sign these players and not players who have a good understanding of the game.(which in this country, is shocking) In this country we have a problem with making footballers and there are too many factors involved like Culture, Scouting, Attitude towards players and etc.

My school, had won the nationals a couple of times and had a semi pro footballer as our teacher(who was still playing). None of us made it despite being signed, the FA has made this panel and they aren't looking at everything. They are just looking at what the press wants

 

[UncleBuck]

Whether or not this is what they are being taught at school the problem is that anyone under 20 will have seem diving on a regular basis, and the results it gets, if you don't get caught.
It's in the genes now and will never go away now unfortunately.
Real sad state of affairs.

 

[mill]

[qthinkote="Spurger King, post: 3687598, member: 15639"]That's the biggest problem with the foundations of football in England. It's all about a winning at all costs attitude. In Spain it's fairly common in the academies to not play competitive matches until a much later age. Instead the focus is on technique.[/quote]
I think I read somewhere barca's kids don't actually play games until they're about 12 or 13 years old, just train

 

[M.I.B.]

That's the biggest problem with the foundations of football in England. It's all about a winning at all costs attitude. In Spain it's fairly common in the academies to not play competitive matches until a much later age. Instead the focus is on technique.

Absolutely correct. I'm a level 1 qualified coach, and some of the attitudes I've seen in my time coaching kids has been shocking.
Even that could be part bearable, but this simulation thing at such a young age is really getting me.

 

[M.I.B.]

There is another side to this that backs up what people say about win at all costs, and the lack of development of highly skilled players.
The scouts/coaches out there are only interested in players of above average build and speed. It isn't even about their football ability, purely athleticism.

The same sons Sunday team lost a player to West Hams academy a while back, and while a good goal scorer, his game was based around pure speed.

The kiddie who came in to replace him was of the aforementioned above average build. I mean really big and strong, and fast. But his footballing skills were definitely not of the same caliber.
Purely based on his size and speed, West Ham again approached the team manager and said they want to take him aswell. And almost without watching him.

The team have a number of very skilful players who are of much slighter build, and they never get a look-in.

Shameful.

 

[woodyspur]

I've suffered from a different malady as a rec league coach this season.

My U18/co-ed (co-ed start at U14 because we lose so many boys to american football and baseball and the girls usually go with basketball and softball) team was subjected to verbal abuse and abject humiliation 3 times this season because of two greedy coaches. One of them is actually our age group co-ordinator and he very clearly has been stacking his team for the past 4 seasons and no one on the board had jack shit to stop him.

When we showed to play our first match back in September I noticed one lad warming up in goal for their team whose name was actually on my roster!

When I confronted their coach he simply shrugged his shoulders and said, "I guess he got moved.".

Long story short here: They ran rough shod over the entire league winning on average by 12 goals a match. Both coaches have been told they won't be allowed back and one lad has been told he won't ever be allowed to play in our league again because of verbal threats to other players and abusive language.

I realize sounds kinda soft compared to what you lot are used to but this, after all, is a rec league and we can't have that kind of behavior.

 

[woodyspur]

A Different Malady pt.2:

My U14 team, usually played 11v11 but numbers were down, was forced to play 8v8. We started with 11 kids on the roster and before the first practice was over we were down to 8. 3 quit without even coming to practice.

When I informed the board and asked them if it would be ok to have a couple of younger siblings guest play very so often they told me to borrow players from our opponent. That worked once. And the kids who played for us were very good sports but that didn't go over so well every weekend. So more often than not we played with only 6 or 7 kids. Only playing with our full roster, 8 kids twice.

Aggravating for me when I had asked for help over and over and they kept turning a deaf ear. I've been a coach in very good standing with this league for over 13 years. On several occasions they have even asked me to up my license and coach select teams. But due to 4 kids playing ball I simply wouldn't have the time to coach a select team.

meh!

venting done. thanks.

 

[M.I.B.]

Interesting to see it isn't just this country with problems then.

I wonder if the same things happen across Europe?

Somehow doubt it.

 

[woodyspur]

yeah, me too.

 

[M.I.B.]

Well. Its obvious the diving thing is being taught right to the top.

Well done Dhelsea

 

[TheGreenLily]

IF this is how it is, then football is fucked in this country.

Just a bunch of shitty attitude bad boy wannabes. Fuck em.

 

[beats1]

I think I read somewhere barca's kids don't actually play games until they're about 12 or 13 years old, just train

Thing with Barca is, they dont really start their academy till about 12 and they scout for that age

Then the kids are moved from all over the world to barcelona to la masia and as highlighted in other thread they are brought up in their environment. The families often given a home and jobs in the city.

As for the kids they are being schooled and trained by the academy. They have a big emphasis on education(which I love) so that they aren't basically left with no skills if they dont make it but also to help get rid of the tosser culture that is in England. They are basically in a boarding school and are made to be grounded, that doesnt mean they wont be pricks but it does help. Also AVB highlighted more intelligent footballers that go in to games thinking about their games is a much better than just trying to do it every time on the pitch.

They have a built this culture in La Masia where they are focused on their game and whereas in this country footballers only train for 5 hours a day before going home.

 

[ShelfSide18]

That's the biggest problem with the foundations of football in England. It's all about a winning at all costs attitude. In Spain it's fairly common in the academies to not play competitive matches until a much later age. Instead the focus is on technique.

I visited a top Spanish academy last week on a coaches study trip - it really isn't all rosy over there as much as we'd like to think, although naturally the results of what they've done over there speak for themselves! There is a tendency to think everything they do is correct, when in fact I saw some things I was a little critical of.

This academy was playing games from U8s, and just like over here I saw screaming parents which I thought was mainly an English tradition - let's not get into the idea that everything we do is wrong, and everything the Spanish, Dutch and Germans do is right - it was an absolute eye opener to me. Actually, I think what the Fa is implementing at the moment is taking us roughly in the right direction - but this could take a decade to really show. I predict the Spanish will get complacent and get overtaken by other nations, and will hang my hat on that.

You are right though, too much focus on short term winning at all costs above long term development over here, we have a culture to shift, a generation of coaches to educate and desperately need investment in facilities - but there is a genuine will to change and now these people are getting heard and the dinosaurs are hopefully going to get rooted out, I have real hope for the future.

 

[Shanks]

Tough one really, as a parent who watches, I find myself getting very frustrated at matches and the coaching given at his current team.

Granted, I should get off my arse and do the coaching, because the coach isn't a great footballer, but more of a doting dad - I tend to think you should at least be able to play football on a basic level before coaching.

I teach my son the basics, controlling, passing, basic skill - controlling the ball from different angles, how to set yourself up, looking up witht he ball and looking to keep possession.

He's very quick for his age, so gets stuck up top - but his team aren't at the same level - often tackling themselves, running the ball into their own goal, or out for corners/throw ins.

He had a game against some QPR feeder club at the weekend, and they got trounced, something liek 15-0 - the other team had a team full of players with ability, were as my boys team, only had my boy who could actually play, so very frustating.

Simply things - my son is ready to take a corner kick, his whole team are in their own area talking to each other, and the coach is just stood watching the game, not encouraging them to get into the box, or move forward.

Literally, not a single player in the opposition half, for a corner kick.

Positional play is more difficult, bearing in mind this is under 8's level, but getting those basics at that age is important (in my opinion).

I'm glad to say that their training has picked up, much more control/technique with the ball, passing into space etc.

My little man had a trial at a semi pro club last week, in which he got picked for, but he was able to express himself better with players who were more capable - I mean he scored 5, but was playing football more, controlling, passing etc - the training level was much better as well, no scoring until every player had touched or passed the ball, stringing passes together.

However, he is only 7, and these issues are all mine - I want to push him on, as I never had that push, so I have to learn to simply let him enjoy playing, not get so serious about it, and calm downt he cheering.

Whilst I don't shout abiuse, I do cheer him on a little bit - I was always a passionate player myself though.

 

[M.I.B.]

Tough one really, as a parent who watches, I find myself getting very frustrated at matches and the coaching given at his current team.

Granted, I should get off my arse and do the coaching, because the coach isn't a great footballer, but more of a doting dad - I tend to think you should at least be able to play football on a basic level before coaching.

I teach my son the basics, controlling, passing, basic skill - controlling the ball from different angles, how to set yourself up, looking up witht he ball and looking to keep possession.

He's very quick for his age, so gets stuck up top - but his team aren't at the same level - often tackling themselves, running the ball into their own goal, or out for corners/throw ins.

He had a game against some QPR feeder club at the weekend, and they got trounced, something liek 15-0 - the other team had a team full of players with ability, were as my boys team, only had my boy who could actually play, so very frustating.

Simply things - my son is ready to take a corner kick, his whole team are in their own area talking to each other, and the coach is just stood watching the game, not encouraging them to get into the box, or move forward.

Literally, not a single player in the opposition half, for a corner kick.

Positional play is more difficult, bearing in mind this is under 8's level, but getting those basics at that age is important (in my opinion).

I'm glad to say that their training has picked up, much more control/technique with the ball, passing into space etc.

My little man had a trial at a semi pro club last week, in which he got picked for, but he was able to express himself better with players who were more capable - I mean he scored 5, but was playing football more, controlling, passing etc - the training level was much better as well, no scoring until every player had touched or passed the ball, stringing passes together.

However, he is only 7, and these issues are all mine - I want to push him on, as I never had that push, so I have to learn to simply let him enjoy playing, not get so serious about it, and calm downt he cheering.

Whilst I don't shout abiuse, I do cheer him on a little bit - I was always a passionate player myself though.

I picked up on the bolded part.

I started out running an under 8s team as a "doting" dad, with no coaching skills, and admittedly, it was all about winning then.

I was then put onto my FA level 1 course, plus our club founder was heavily into Brazilian Soccer Skills, and Fusball.

It changed my outlook completely. What I knew from playing on boggy, ploughed up fields in the 70's/80's just doesn't apply anymore.
It's all about giving the kids the confidence on the ball, and the desire to try something without being shouted at or ridiculed.

I stood with amazement one day, on a shared training field, as the guy running another local team spent the entire hour and a half trying to show 8 year olds how to make a wall for a free kick, and letting just one lad take said kicks. Total bollox and it taught the kids nothing as their interest was gone within 5 mins.

I've said before, up until at least 10, I don't think kids should be playing "matches" per se. It should be all competition type stuff based around skill and ability and confidence on the ball. Give them something to aim for, but not in a situation where losing a game is such an obvious problem. Not to the kids, but to the damn no-nothing parents who are trying to live their lives through their kids. (This isn't a pop at previous poster, by the way).
Locally (Crawley) there was clamour to actually ban parents/spectators from watching kids games at one point because of their inability to watch a game without shouting at the kids, ref, other parents etc, and the touchline coaching going on which does nothing but confuse the poor little sods.
One of the worst things you can do as a parent is offer (cash) bribes to your kid for scoring X amount of goals. All this does is encourage that kid to be greedy, try it all themselves, and annoy the other kids in the team. So wrong.

To this day, I can remember the match (under 8's or 9's) when the greedy player in my team (on a monetary bribe to score) actually passed to my own son (not the best or most confident of players) and greedy boys father yelled from the touchline "don't give it to him, he's fucking useless".
The effect on my son, and another timid kid who thought it was aimed at him, was devastating, and I had the problem of two young kids crying and wanting to come off the pitch.

Seriously, any parents out there with youngsters just starting out in the football world, think about the above comments, and try to not to make your kid so much of an arse as you!!!!!

Rant over

 

[Legend10]

You know what, kids learn the most when there's no parents or adults about!

In the street, in the playground, over the park etc, then adults step in when they're to young and push them to do ABC when actually they should still just be expressing themselves, volleying balls against walls and trying to control bouncy tennis balls in the playground at break and lunch. For example learning yourself how to volley those bouncy tennis balls at a young age playing with your mates is a sense of technique and timing that will stay with you for a footballing lifetime and in comparison volleying footballs will be a piece of cake. It also teaches you to instinctively pickup things like ball flight and coordination etc.

If I had a kids team I would never let the lads play in the same position every week, one week left back, next week up front, next week centre mid etc. I couldn't give a shit whether they were big, small, fast or slow, learn everything with the freedom to express themselves.

IMHO over coaching is worse than no coaching.

Regarding the diving, screaming etc that's pretty disgraceful that the teachers from that school allow it, they should be ashamed of themselves and I don't know how academy's work these days but if they accept that then it's also disgraceful.

On the plus side for the OP, your boy is still very much in the development and learning stage and when all is said and done where do you learn more, playing like prima donnas and winning 10-1 or by playing against it and better players. Whilst demoralising at the time it will heed lessons and ultimately improvement.

 

[Shanks]

I picked up on the bolded part.

I started out running an under 8s team as a "doting" dad, with no coaching skills, and admittedly, it was all about winning then.

I was then put onto my FA level 1 course, plus our club founder was heavily into Brazilian Soccer Skills, and Fusball.

It changed my outlook completely. What I knew from playing on boggy, ploughed up fields in the 70's/80's just doesn't apply anymore.
It's all about giving the kids the confidence on the ball, and the desire to try something without being shouted at or ridiculed.

I stood with amazement one day, on a shared training field, as the guy running another local team spent the entire hour and a half trying to show 8 year olds how to make a wall for a free kick, and letting just one lad take said kicks. Total bollox and it taught the kids nothing as their interest was gone within 5 mins.

I've said before, up until at least 10, I don't think kids should be playing "matches" per se. It should be all competition type stuff based around skill and ability and confidence on the ball. Give them something to aim for, but not in a situation where losing a game is such an obvious problem. Not to the kids, but to the damn no-nothing parents who are trying to live their lives through their kids. (This isn't a pop at previous poster, by the way).
Locally (Crawley) there was clamour to actually ban parents/spectators from watching kids games at one point because of their inability to watch a game without shouting at the kids, ref, other parents etc, and the touchline coaching going on which does nothing but confuse the poor little sods.
One of the worst things you can do as a parent is offer (cash) bribes to your kid for scoring X amount of goals. All this does is encourage that kid to be greedy, try it all themselves, and annoy the other kids in the team. So wrong.

To this day, I can remember the match (under 8's or 9's) when the greedy player in my team (on a monetary bribe to score) actually passed to my own son (not the best or most confident of players) and greedy boys father yelled from the touchline "don't give it to him, he's fucking useless".
The effect on my son, and another timid kid who thought it was aimed at him, was devastating, and I had the problem of two young kids crying and wanting to come off the pitch.

Seriously, any parents out there with youngsters just starting out in the football world, think about the above comments, and try to not to make your kid so much of an arse as you!!!!!

Rant over

Didn't read it as a rant, a bloody decent post to be honest.

Worth noting, I'm not one of those parents who shout at everyone and everything, just try encouraging my little boy, mostly to keep the ball with his team - as in pass.

I won;t shout at other parents, other kids, or the coach, just encourage cheering, rather than anything else!

Whilst I've offered bribes, I've actually offered a pound for every assist he gets, rather than a goal itself, he scores well, but he's starting to look at playing the ball more, which to me is what its all about.

Good control with the ball, will make him a better player than simply hogging it.

 

[NP4_Yid]

I coach two kid's teams (under 8s and under 11s). Not sure how it works in England but in Wales all football is non competitive up until u12s (when offside also comes in) and it starts as 4 a side at under 7 then a player is added every year until it goes 11 a side at u12.

Under 7s and under 8s is brilliant. The kids just want to have fun, they laugh, there is little in the way of deliberate fouls, parents are on the whole pretty good and the refereeing is very relaxed - the focus is on fun and development.
Then as the kids get older it gets more serious and more competitive (even though its not officially). There are less smiles, the parents become more of a pain in the arse, fights start (on and off the pitch), unsporting behaviour creeps in and to be honest it becomes far less enjoyable as a coach.

Banning parents from watching would in a lot of cases help, although in my experience it is mostly those who have never played football or rugby before who are the problem. But unfortunately with some teams the problem lies with the coaches.

Kids will treat every game as competitive - by their very nature they want to win at every thing, whether that's a kickabout in the park, FIFA14 or a proper match. It is up to us to temper that competitive nature, to channel it appropriately and help them develop.

My u11s play one side who every team in the area dislikes - parents pissed on the side shouting obscenities (apparently "break his fucking legs" has been heard a few times along with fighting amongst themsleves), the players kick and push, cheating at their home games, far more route one than trying to play decent football etc The underlying issue however is not with the parents or the kids its the coaches. They have a duty of care to the children to provide a safe and non threatening environment i.e. they have to stop the parents from their team behaving inappropriately. They have to coach their kids to play football and develop as players i.e. not trying to hurt the opposition and lumping the ball up to the striker. They also have to set an example and try to develop them as people not just as footballers i.e. not refusing to shake my hand after a game and preventing their players from the customary line up and handshake with the other team because they've lost.

I insist that my players give respect to the referee and the opposition and whatever the outcome of the game we behave with dignity. If they don't then they don't play the following week.