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Zokora and Jenas in the middle....win ratio with these two playing?

jondesouza

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2004
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Actually, the other interesting one is that the cumulative loss % for those three partnerships are:
Jenas and Zokora - Loss % 31.3
Jenas and Huddlestone - Loss % 33.3
Zokora and Huddlestone - Loss % 40.0

So, the partnership that gets the most wins also loses most often.

Then if we want to work from % of points won the results are:
Jenas and Zokora - 44 from 96 (45.8%)
Jenas and Huddlestone - 22 from 45 (48.9%)
Zokora and Huddlestone - 23 from 45 (51.1%)

Overall, I don't think this really gives us any clues. The percentages are far too close to be meaningful.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
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thanx for the stats jdz

i guess the biggest win for zok jj was the cc final

but the semi finals zok didnt play?
 

jondesouza

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2004
2,842
1,558
thanx for the stats jdz

i guess the biggest win for zok jj was the cc final

but the semi finals zok didnt play?

Can't remember 1st leg but 2nd was JJ and Tainio. They also had a 50% win rate in the league games they played together as a central mid pairing. A lot of times though Teemu started as a tucked in left-mid.
 

theaman

Member
Jan 3, 2005
476
0
I've just looked into the stats for the last two and a half seasons and I've got to say I'm shocked by the results:

Jenas and Zokora - Played 32. Win % 34.4
Jenas and Huddlestone - Played 15. Win % 40.0
Zokora and Huddlestone - Played 15. Win % 46.7

These stats are for starting partnerships and from league games only.

I really did think that Zokora and Hudd would be by far the worst performing partnership. Shows what I know...

Actually, the other interesting one is that the cumulative loss % for those three partnerships are:
Jenas and Zokora - Loss % 31.3
Jenas and Huddlestone - Loss % 33.3
Zokora and Huddlestone - Loss % 40.0

So, the partnership that gets the most wins also loses most often.

Then if we want to work from % of points won the results are:
Jenas and Zokora - 44 from 96 (45.8%)
Jenas and Huddlestone - 22 from 45 (48.9%)
Zokora and Huddlestone - 23 from 45 (51.1%)

Overall, I don't think this really gives us any clues. The percentages are far too close to be meaningful.

These are all shocking - worse than I thought!

I just wonder if the management - and indeed previous management teams knew this too...
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
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These are all shocking - worse than I thought!

I just wonder if the management - and indeed previous management teams knew this too...


there are 114 pts to play for

50% = 57

that's quite a way higher than our prem average i believe

so those combined stats are probaably pretty much par for the course
 

theaman

Member
Jan 3, 2005
476
0
there are 114 pts to play for

50% = 57

that's quite a way higher than our prem average i believe

so those combined stats are probaably pretty much par for the course

Looking at it that way, yes.

However, the stats showing that our win ratio is 34% when those two play though is scarily low. That's 11 wins out of 32 games...

The record from those stats reads:

11 wins
10 defeats
11 draws

Which gives us a total of 44 points from a possible 96 - which is pretty dire.

May just be circumstantial but I think it's a good reason in itself to stop those two from playing together....
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
Im not going to get into the JJ vs Zokora thing. Like someone else pointed out, with our current strikers it doesnt matter much who plays in the middle.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
With Carrick next to JJ and 4 decent strikers it was great

With Zokora next to JJ and with 4 decent strikers it was good

With Zokora next to JJ and with 2 decent strikers and a boy, its terrible.

How the fuck do you make it 2 ?

It's because Jenas isn't a footballer.

plum

And Zokora is?

Zokora is the proof of how far you can get in the footballing world with little or no skill on the ball.

And we have a matching pair
 

mackay59

Banned
Jun 23, 2008
613
0
Look guys ............please...............study the film(s).................90% of JJ is sideways and backwards........................even when Lennon or someone else gives him the ball for a one two on the edge of the box he goes sideways or backwards and does not slip it back to the runner.

There is no changing him.............his mind is not there ..............his mind is on the practise field....the 5 aside patch.

Yes.......he is a very competent player BUT he is not one ounce creative in his thinking.

Study the films.
 

markie

Active Member
Nov 17, 2004
1,416
1
As much as stats help us to see how well each partnership performed I think we need to look back and think about the games that JJ and Hudd played in the middle together and remember how creative we looked compared to when Zokora has played alongside either of them.. I personally think the best combination is JJ and Hudd as they bring the best out of each other. Zokora tends to hold both of them back in many ways including JJ doing all his running. Hudd never getting a chance to go forward because he is covering zokora.

I think the best thing we could do now is drop zoko for a few games and chuck O Hara in DM alongside Hudd and Modric.. This to me is the perfect central three as O Hara can pass tackle and shoot, Hudd can pass and shoot better than pretty much everyone in the squad, Modric would then thrive on this...
 

jermainjenius

Member
Jan 2, 2007
119
0
As much as stats help us to see how well each partnership performed I think we need to look back and think about the games that JJ and Hudd played in the middle together and remember how creative we looked compared to when Zokora has played alongside either of them.. I personally think the best combination is JJ and Hudd as they bring the best out of each other. Zokora tends to hold both of them back in many ways including JJ doing all his running. Hudd never getting a chance to go forward because he is covering zokora.

I think the best thing we could do now is drop zoko for a few games and chuck O Hara in DM alongside Hudd and Modric.. This to me is the perfect central three as O Hara can pass tackle and shoot, Hudd can pass and shoot better than pretty much everyone in the squad, Modric would then thrive on this...

Agree with the modric and hudd part disagree with everything else no one is holding jenas back.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
Looking at it that way, yes.

However, the stats showing that our win ratio is 34% when those two play though is scarily low. That's 11 wins out of 32 games...

The record from those stats reads:

11 wins
10 defeats
11 draws

Which gives us a total of 44 points from a possible 96 - which is pretty dire.

May just be circumstantial but I think it's a good reason in itself to stop those two from playing together....

hi a man :)

44 from 96 translates to about 52 over a season - that is pretty much spurs average over the prem

we have to remember some prem seasons had 42 games - 126 points

ie 52 from 38 = approx 57 from 42

so a 52/38 jj zoko return is average or perhaps a little sub average at worst

all maths done quickly in my head and open to correction, ditto prem points done from memory

so all very much open to correction:)

of course this season 52 points will be a dream come true - i'd take 44 no danger

i'm happy if zoko is dropped from mid btw

but i honestly think it's the third mid or lack of it that is the problem

play o'hara instead of bentley over the last three games and the stats would have been better i'm convinced

also at wba it was a draw till bae got sent off after that jj & zok werent mid

it was basically jj on his own a lot of the time and he did a decent job and got ridiculous criticism from many people again

if blame for lost point is apportioned it goes to the ref or bae not the jj zok mid combo
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
hudd has been injured so given hr's apparent views on joh it almost had to be zoko jj yesterday

for me lennon jj hudd o'hara would be my preferred mid atm

but injuries suspensions tiredness mean often that's impossible

if we go 442

lennon jj and two from modric hudd o'hara

of course if we get in a new mid, as we should, it changes again
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
Zokora and JJ are okey defensively and more often they both dominate midfield play. Our biggest problem IMO is a lack of goals from players like Lennon Bentley Modric considering the system were playing those three players have to start finding the back of the net.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
Zokora and JJ are okey defensively and more often they both dominate midfield play. Our biggest problem IMO is a lack of goals from players like Lennon Bentley Modric considering the system were playing those three players have to start finding the back of the net.

agreed again - we are playing four attacking/creative players atm and creating/scoring little
 

senseispab

Active Member
Feb 16, 2006
904
137
For some reason I quite like Zokora.

I think he can do a job there better than anyone else we have at the moment.
 

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
38,502
11,933
It's the same midfield that played when we were 5th for the 2nd time.
 
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