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Zokora and jenas

ginol@14

Active Member
Jun 16, 2008
1,163
26
these 2 should be dropped , zokora should be on the bench and jj (the invisible man) should be made to train with the reserves for being so utterly shite

modric and either hudd , corluka or even king should play there , we have no steel , no confidence and no balls, no df means we should play a disciplined cb there until we get a natural replacement , im sick of these 2 headless chickens running around , losing the ball then putting us under pressure

why the hell our useless board sold malbranque and tannio is beyond me
both those players would walk into this poor poor side
 

luptic

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2008
2,352
3,062
Ramos to make 4-5-1 work must have two holding players e.g. Alsono, Mascherno, Diarra, who can break up the play, chase the ball, win headers in the centre of the park, doesn’t care about being hurt either, and the other one can support do that and support the other midfielders. Jeans, Zakora, Huddlestone, Modric and O’Hara wont do that for you. Zakora will bomb forward but he dwells on the ball to long before releasing it. I don’t think we have the personal for that system to work properly, that why we have to start playing 4-4-2 with Zakora/Huddlestone playing along sides Modric/Jenas with Lennon, Bentley or Dos Santos out on the flanks. With two up front at least the opponents will have to worry about two forward instead of one, thus making them more defensive instead of offensive. Playing one up front doesn’t make the opposition work to defend, and that what we need to start doing.
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
Jenas and Zokora again getting the raw deal.

If you cear to study the Stoke game again both goals where down to poor back 4 defending.

Jenas does a lot of donkey work for the team (shouldn't take beckham range free kick again-but can still put in decent free kick from off range IE woodgates winning goal, Dawson goal against Chelski range) and its up to others like Bentley, Pav, Modric etc to step up...aswell. We could have Vieira or Roy Keane in our midfield and we'd still be defensively bad if players are going to be making individual mistakes as Bale did or Hutton not picking up for stokes winning goal.
 

Bill_Oddie

Everything in Moderation
Staff
Feb 1, 2005
19,120
6,003
I would amend slightly the first sentence of this thread:

in my opinion if these two get shot performances will improve.

Nothing fatal, but if Juande Ramos wandered into the Lodge this morning and shot Jenas in the arse and Zoko Pops in his shin, then can you imagine the message that would send to the other players?

"Now, who fancies playing like a **** this week?" Juande could say.

That's what I call management.
 

AdelaideSpur

New Member
Jun 13, 2008
474
1
Bentley Corluka Modric Lennon

that seems like a good midfiled to me.
Corluka is interchangable with Thudd
Modric with O'hara or Jenas
Lennon with Gio
but keep these type of players in these positions
Bent and Campbell upfront for whole game together please.
 

Hoowl

Dr wHo(owl)
Staff
Aug 18, 2005
6,526
266
look back at the hull game and see the work jenas did defensively. He tracked players as they broke and put in a number of decent tackles. Now look at the Stoke game. Again more tackles than our other midfielders and a better passing success rate. Like it or not, he has been our best midfielder since carrick left and the stats and results show this. Why anyone would want to drop him at the moment is beyond me. Get him playing in the reserves? That's a great idea, why don't you cut off your nose to spite your face too? As for pavlyuchenko starting ahead of bent, look at what they've done so far this season. Bent has four goals in eight starts. That's a great ratio that any striker would be proud of. If a striker we were looking to sign had that ratio we'd all want him. Pavyluchenko has one goal so far. He may become a great goal scorer but why drop bent, who is scoring, for a player who might come good.
:shrug:
As for the original topic, jenas and zokora is not a good midfield but they aren't the worst individuals or pairing on the league. We got fifth with those two. I know we had keane and berbatov in front of they but even they couldn't have dragged the 20th best central midfield to those heights. Obviously we have lost a lot of creativity from our strikeforce and that should now come from midfield. I think modric on the left (tucking in with bale overlapping) could achieve this. I also think bentley could offer chances from the right. At the moment I'd be tempted to play jenas, zokora and Lennon because they have experience playing together as I think our current situation requires us to start picking up poi ts rather than find the perfect formation. If I was going to try and change central midfield I'd give huddlestone a start next to jenas.
 

sidford

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2003
11,324
29,603
find it hard to believe that no-one has mentioned o'hara as a possible CM. the lads gives 100% all the time and has the ability the make a tackle and pass the ball about. would prefer to see him in CM then hudd. yea hudd has a better passing range but he doesnt put the boot in & is too slow
 

nuttynoah

Arbiter elegantiae
Jul 21, 2004
8,175
7,432
Bentley Corluka Modric Lennon
that has to be the way forward ffs, with GDS on the bench to replace either lennon or bentley or one of the forwards
 

Hoowl

Dr wHo(owl)
Staff
Aug 18, 2005
6,526
266
I don't think o'hara will make any difference. If you look at the Portsmouth game we played jenas, zokora and o'hara in midfield and they may as well have been carbon copies of the same player. They are all box to box midfielders who are happy to pass sideways between themselves but don't offer anything extra from a creative (passing forward) or defensive (tackling and defensive awareness) sense. It's not because they are bad players, it's just the type of player they are. If we play three on the middle one has to be huddlestone or modric otherwise our passing stagnates and we don't get anywhere. If we play a central two from jenas, zokora and o'hara then we need to look to the flanks for creativity. Bentley can cross ( Honestly, I've seen it) and modric and bale can make things happen from the left. Another option to take creative pressure off the midfield is to play dos santos up front but I dont k ow how bed fare.
 

InOffMeLeftShin

Night watchman
Admin
Jan 14, 2004
15,104
9,113
I still can't get my head around the fact that people think the reason for our problems is down to individuals. For me that is kind of hard to fathom. Zokora and Jenas are both international footballers and both have plenty of positives to their games. The fact that they are playing in almost undefinable roles in a formation and strategy that is both poorly developed and executed as well as not suiting our players is far more alarming to me than any which players we have and don't have.

The cold truth is that with the squad of players we have there is no way that we should be in the position we are. The 11 that we have played almost every week looks as good or better than the oppositions almost every time. However we try and play the so called 'modern game' which other teams have better players or more suited players, more experience of and also importantly no how to defend against. It's all well saying, but Chelsea are great playing in that way, but Chelsea have been playing a more continental 4-2-3-1 for years now and have better players in almost every position than us. All the lower teams have flooded the midfield for seasons on end now with one bruiser up top.

I'm very confused at the logic behind our tactical decisions so far this season. We need to be different, unique and Tottenham.
 

Hoowl

Dr wHo(owl)
Staff
Aug 18, 2005
6,526
266
Bentley Corluka Modric Lennon
that has to be the way forward ffs, with GDS on the bench to replace either lennon or bentley or one of the forwards


If we had tried this is preseason and had at least some evidence it might work then maybe but that central midfield is a big gamble. We all want modric to be more involved in games and play like we've seen him do for Croatia but he hasn't shown that for spurs as of yet. He gets knocked off the ball a lot and hasn't created much so far. As for corluka next to him, he has played a handful of games there for city and even then he seemed to be more a playmaker than the defensive player that would be needed to anchor modric.
 

Wiener

SC Supporter
Jun 24, 2005
1,194
321
I think Jenas offers enough defensively and offensively to make him a first choice player in the current squad. He is by no means a "creative player", but I have seen plenty of occasions where he has made good passes through the oppositions defence. I do agree however that he doesn't seem to have the leadership qualities required to become the midfield presence many of us hoped he would. He is still young, but time is running out for him to prove himself.

For me Zokora has too little to offer going forward. He has great pace and is reasonably good at tackling. I just think he has too little composure once on the ball. His doensn't seem to be able to pass the ball more than a few yards. Given his age and the fact that he has been given a couple of seasons to prove himself, I just don't think he will improve on what he currently has to offer, and that is not good enough for us.

Huddlestone is great on the ball, but I don't think he has the ability to win the ball back, which Hansen has quite rightly pointed out is one of our problems right now. I think he is one for the future.

O'Hara certainly has the desire and the generally the right attitude. I am just not sure he is technically good enough to make the space he would need in midfield.

Corluka is a bit of a wildcard for DM, but he looks like has great technique and in some ways reminds me of Carrick, though he probably has a little less pace. I like the idea of him as a defensive midfielder. Pity we can't use him in the UEFA cup.

My first choice for a 4 man midfield would be:

Bentley Jenas Corluka Lennon

with Bent and Modric (in free role between midfield and Bent) up front

OR

Lennon Jenas Corluka Modric

with Bent and Campbell-Frazier up front
 

Hoowl

Dr wHo(owl)
Staff
Aug 18, 2005
6,526
266
The cold truth is that with the squad of players we have there is no way that we should be in the position we are. The 11 that we have played almost every week looks as good or better than the oppositions almost every time.

Absolutely.
 

DEFchenkOE

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2006
10,527
8,052
As much as I'd like to see Corluka in midfield we need him at the back. It is really pointless putting King in our strongest 11 starting line-ups.
 

van_Pommel

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2004
3,061
971
As much as I'd like to see Corluka in midfield we need him at the back. It is really pointless putting King in our strongest 11 starting line-ups.

Completely agree. King cant play consecutive games which is disrupting Woody and Vedran from forming a decent partnership. King needs to be on the bench for every game so we can use him as and when he's needed, but Woody and Corluka should always be 1st choice.

With regards to JJ and Zokora, they simply arent good enough as a pairing. Although JJ is ok next to an accomplished, defensive minded CM like Carrick. The root of our midfield problems has always been that we never really replaced Carrick, or Davids for that matter. It is inexcusable that CM in the Carrick or Davids mould was not brought in over the summer.

However, JJ and Zokora are not the reason we are in our current situation, the fact that we are not scoring enough is.
 

markie

Active Member
Nov 17, 2004
1,416
1
But then if we had a decent central midfield pairing we would probably find scoring a lot easier... Someone like hudd would provide a lot more assists than zoko will... Thats what ramos needs to realise
 

van_Pommel

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2004
3,061
971
But then if we had a decent central midfield pairing we would probably find scoring a lot easier... Someone like hudd would provide a lot more assists than zoko will... Thats what ramos needs to realise

The trouble with Huddlestone is that when we dont have the ball its like having 10 men. In possesion he's very good but defensively he gets passed around so easily its frightning and cannot keep up with the game. I wonder actually how he manages to be such a key player for the u21s, has anyone watched many of their games? I had massively high hopes for him when we signed him but I just cant see how he's going to improve his defensive game, he's lost a load of weight but even that hasnt helped. At one point I honestly thought Huddlestone and O'Hara could one day be the perfect midfield pairing, its not looking good at the moment though. In fact O'Hara might be better off focusing on training as a left back, he looks pretty usefull there.
 

markie

Active Member
Nov 17, 2004
1,416
1
I think Huddlestone is one player that should be given a chance in a few games in a row so he can get his game in place.. We cant exactly do any worse than zokora and at least we know there will be a decent footballer in the middle of the park.

He could be a fantastic player for us and he just deserves a proper chance!
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
I agree, that pairing have been the source of our problems for over two years now, but would instead go:

gomes

hutton woodgate king bale

bentley corluka modric lennon

pavlyuchencko campbell


So you'd play that formation once every 3 or 4 games would you?? due to a minor matter of an arthritic knee!!

Do me a favour

People may not like it but JJ is the best we've got and we finished 5th twice with him playing virtually every game

It's the rest of our team and squad the JJ knockers need to look at

Wake up and smell the coffee, JJ is our leading goalscorer and also covers more ground than any other player in our squad.
 

THOWIG

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,499
8,329
Huddlestone has the potential to be world class. He just needs a chance.
 
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