ZOKORA - Chalk n Cheese

[jambo]

In DM he does his job and does it well

This comment i agree with. Zoks might not be the best going forward and getting goals from midfield but what he does offer is top notch fitness levels, pace, passion, pride and the willingness to get stuck in. I would not say that we have many people in our squad that dont deserve to be there and Zoks does deserve to be in the squad. Zoks imo is an excellent defensive midfielder and would be great in a 5 man midfield as the anchor with 2 creative mids in front of him. At the end of the day he has done a good job for us this season so far in the times of difficulty and i know how much i appreciate it.

 

[Spursking]

Take a look at his article: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11674_2978427,00.html

Good to see that someone realise what a good player he is.

 

[Welsh_spurs_fan]

Take a look at his article: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11674_2978427,00.html

Good to see that someone realise what a good player he is.

That shut up all the Zokora haters

 

[FITZ]

I still think Zokora would make a great left or right back.

He definately seems to benefit from having a rigid position, rather the fluidity of the central midfield.

 

[nidge]

Take a look at his article: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11674_2978427,00.html

Good to see that someone realise what a good player he is.

He was good at centre back but, he is meant to be a central midfielder. Doesn't anyone else think it ironic that he has played his best games for out in supposedly his weaker position because I certainly do.

How anyone can try to use the article as justification for Zokora being a good player in central midfield is from cloud coo coo land. :roll:

 

[joey55]

I still think Zokora would make a great left or right back.

He definately seems to benefit from having a rigid position, rather the fluidity of the central midfield.

That's what I think. I suggested it about a year ago and got ridiculed for it, but he can defend and has a great engine for getting up and down the pitch. He will find more space to run with the ball out wide, then he does in the centre. At FB, we'd see his surging runs every game as oppossed to every few games. I'm not sure what he's like crossing though.

 

[yanno]

He was good at centre back but, he is meant to be a central midfielder. Doesn't anyone else think it ironic that he has played his best games for out in supposedly his weaker position because I certainly do.

I agree. He played very well yesterday, especially using his pace to step out of defence and break up attacks/cut out passes.

However, Zokora has yet to play as a CB against an EPL centre-forward who's good in the air. Against the Spammers, Ramos dropped Zoko back into the spare CB role, and used Chimbonda to mark Carlton Cole. And I think Ramos did this because Chimbonda does have an excellent leap on him, and can challenge in the air. I'm yet to be convinced about Zokora's ablities here.

But, hats off - given Zoko was talking up his midfield role earlier in the week, presumably he switched to CB very late (when Dawson pulled out sick). And he had a very good game.

 

[Spursking]

He was good at centre back but, he is meant to be a central midfielder. Doesn't anyone else think it ironic that he has played his best games for out in supposedly his weaker position because I certainly do.

How anyone can try to use the article as justification for Zokora being a good player in central midfield is from cloud coo coo land. :roll:

He had a very good game at CB against Portsmouth, and played together with a back four with Lee, Kaboul and Chimbonda. 3 other good defenders. Then, he plays together with compact pacy players, he gets better.

When he plays in midfield, he usually plays together with Lennon, Jenas, and Malbranque. Zokora always have a lot of energy in his midfield position - very aggressive and pacy in this work. Often when he plays together with Jenas or Huddlestone in the past, they skow the play down and opt for the easy way of playing football by trying to play long, and then the ball is lost.

Sometimes it is possible to give a genius pass, but Jenas and espessially Huddlestone does try too many times. (Don't get me wrong here. I think Jenas and Huddlestone play some good matches and are good players, but they don't help Zokora a lot. The often slow down the play.) That is the main reason why Zokora seems weaker in midfield. The others have to help him more, and play with more pace. I think it is positive to see Boateng in the side, and believe he can develop into a good player for us. Zokora is a great midfielder, but we probably need a new central midfielder to play alongside him to get the best out of him.

 

[joey55]

Zokora seems weaker in midfield becasue he is. he slows the game down more than any of our midifielders. He is a fast runner, not a fast thinking footballer. His failure to set a decent tempo is onw of his biggest problems. We play slow, predictable football when he is in the team. This is a clip Junade_Ramos posted earlier of Alonso, and shows the vast difference in quality between a top DM and how he uses the ball, compared to Zokora. Zokora's problems are to do with his lack of ability and not to do with his team mates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7eiFGiCG4

 

[Spursking]

Zokora seems weaker in midfield becasue he is. he slows the game down more than any of our midifielders. He is a fast runner, not a fast thinking footballer. His failure to set a decent tempo is onw of his biggest problems. We play slow, predictable football when he is in the team. This is a clip Junade_Ramos posted earlier of Alonso, and shows the vast difference in quality between a top DM and how he uses the ball, compared to Zokora. Zokora's problems are to do with his lack of ability and not to do with his team mates.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US7eiFGiCG4

I agree that Alonso have some great passes in the video clip and of course is a very good player, but it depends a little bit on how we want to play also. We want to have a posession style of play, and wants to play quick attacking football. With Zokora in midfield, we have the passion, aggression, and pace to play such football. The problem is that Jenas or Huddlestone is more interested in playing the ball long and often opt for the easy pass long, which very often fails, and the ball is lost.

I want us to play quick passing football with the ball on the ground, and not that long ball. Quick one touch football is exciting to watch, and if it is done with passion and elegance it can open any defence. It is all about pace and positioning, and how you use your pace when you play.

 

[joey55]

I agree that Alonso have some great passes in the video clip and of course is a very good player, but it depends a little bit on how we want to play also. We want to have a posession style of play, and wants to play quick attacking football. With Zokora in midfield, we have the passion, aggression, and pace to play such football. The problem is that Jenas or Huddlestone is more interested in playing the ball long and often opt for the easy pass long, which very often fails, and the ball is lost.

I want us to play quick passing football with the ball on the ground, and not that long ball. Quick one touch football is exciting to watch, and if it is done with passion and elegance it can open any defence. It is all about pace and positioning, and how you use your pace when you play.

But Arsenal play with 4 midfielders that are all much slower than JJ, Lennon and Zokora, yet they manage to play a quick passing game. It has nothing to do with the pace of the midfield players, but the speed with which the move the ball around. Zokora is very slow at distributing the ball. He lacks vision, touch and passing range. Zokora is a so far from the type of player you'd want in a quick passing football team. JJ's passing % is higher than Zokoras. So i don't see how you can accuse him of trying too many long passes. he does try and use the ball more creatively than Zokora, but even so, with more accuracy. Saying JJ loses the ball too much is about as ridiculous as saying he isn't quick enough. I download most games, so please give me some examples of when you feel Zokora has been let down by his midfield team mates, so i can take a closer look.

Surely clips like that of Alonso, should put an end to this ridiculous Zokora argument which has gone on for too long. That is what we need from a DM if we are to realistically compete with the top 4. Look how much better Zokora's performed since he been playing in defence. Take away his mifdfield responsibilities and he's a decent player.

 

[SpurSince57]

Could you post the splendid pass to whichever Everton player it was that set up the move that led to their third goal? Pure precision that exceeded even Big Tone's one to Kanu a couple of seasons ago!

 

[spurs4europe]

Could you post the splendid pass to whichever Everton player it was that set up the move that led to their third goal? Pure precision that exceeded even Big Tone's one to Kanu a couple of seasons ago!

oh please no. that's just cringe!

 

[N10toN17]

Zokos future doesn't lie in midfield if he wants to be in the first team, he'll have to make it in defence and at the moment I'm not really sure if he can do that either. He is definately a useful squad player though and can do a job in a number of different positions when needed, which is useful, a bit like John O'shea at United who is similar in that way.

But for the 8 miliion Euros (don't quote me), we really should have got more than a utility player. As Joey has said I think he could be converted into a decent fullback, I do remember last year him putting in a few decent crosses, one in particular in the Uefa cup where Defoe should have scored can't remember the specific game, so I think he could be converted, it's happened many times before. At centre back I'd be concerned about his physicality and his lack of height.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

But Arsenal play with 4 midfielders that are all much slower than JJ, Lennon and Zokora, yet they manage to play a quick passing game. It has nothing to do with the pace of the midfield players, but the speed with which the move the ball around. Zokora is very slow at distributing the ball. He lacks vision, touch and passing range. Zokora is a so far from the type of player you'd want in a quick passing football team. JJ's passing % is higher than Zokoras. So i don't see how you can accuse him of trying too many long passes. he does try and use the ball more creatively than Zokora, but even so, with more accuracy. Saying JJ loses the ball too much is about as ridiculous as saying he isn't quick enough. I download most games, so please give me some examples of when you feel Zokora has been let down by his midfield team mates, so i can take a closer look.

Surely clips like that of Alonso, should put an end to this ridiculous Zokora argument which has gone on for too long. That is what we need from a DM if we are to realistically compete with the top 4. Look how much better Zokora's performed since he been playing in defence. Take away his mifdfield responsibilities and he's a decent player.

This is just not true. Fabregas, Rosicky, Hleb, Eboue are as quick as Jenas & Zokora if not quicker. I agree they are all more intelligent and move on the ball and off the ball more intelligently but they are also helped by the superior coaching and movement off the ball of the whole team.

Keane and Berbatov don't always help by standing two yards apart in the "D" waiting for a miracle instead of joining in with play. Lennon also needed to learn to get involved in the game the way malbranque does, even when it's just to offer availability. Arsenal don't rely on an Alonso type DM, just good movement and intelligent footballers to exploit it.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

What is amazing is how we are once again debating the pro's and con's of Zokora when something clearly emerged from yesterdays game, namely that we are a far better defensive unit without Dawson.

Yes we can improve on Zokora, but that won't be as easy as improving on Dawson, as was conclusively proved yesterday.

 

[SpurSince57]

The only problem with that assertion, B-C, is that Dawson was left out because of illness. And whilst I wouldn't disagree in the slightest that at times this season he's displayed the nous of a stunned haddock (and actually resembled one when going into dopey open-mouthed mode), all yesterday proved was that both he and Kaboul are far better with an experienced head alongside them. When they're playing together you just know it's only a matter of time before one drops the other in the shit. With Kaboul it's forgivable—I don't think he played more than 50 games for Auxerre, but he's been chucked in at the deep end in a far stronger league, something neither he nor anyone else was bargaining on, I suspect. But for Dawson the inexperience excuse is getting very skimpy indeed.

But we don't know what Juande would have done had both been fit, so it's all a bit hypothetical.

I'm afraid Spursking is to blame for the Zokora digs, with his usual preposterous claims. I thought he did well yesterday, but the sooner King, Rocha and Big Tone are fit and ready I'll breathe a whole shitload easier.

 

[GDG]

You can't possibly believe that big Tone would have played as well as Zokora did on Saturday, SS57? That, too, is a preposterous claim, he makes a new-born Bambi look coordinated.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think Ramos will be tested by the Dawson issue. Jol refused to see it. Populism or poor judgement - or both - meant dawson was never dropped or subbed the way Kaboul has been. Thing is with Dawson I don't think it would have made a difference.

Hand on Heart, can anyone tell me Dawson has improved one fucking click since he arrived. If anyuthing h's got worse - or is being exposed more as the quality of the prem goes up.

 

[jizmaster_zero]

No. What you have seen is how much Dawson has cost us for 2+ years. Even a midfielder who many have called shit and a CB 3 years younger having his first season in a foriegn (tougher league) are better at defending.

Completely agree. I think Dawson is a championship 'style' player. Yes hes been good, but he has made a catalogue of fuck ups. I also think that he is positionally awful, and his distribution is woeful. I hate those long floated balls he always plays.

I dont think we will 'miss' him when he doesnt play.