Zokora = Davids?

[liberty]

IMO we have never replaced Davids who got us to our best ever PL finish and only just lost out on 4th last day of the season. He was vastly under-rated and we still need someone to do the job he was doing for us.

I don't watch much (read: any) European football (other than the odd CL match and our UEFA games) so I don't know who is out there to do this Davids/Gattuso/Makelele type role.

I don't think Zokora has the aggression, strength, ball-winning skills and ultimately, discipline to do this job effectively. Likewise, Hudd is also IMO not good enough for this role.

I haven't seem him but I assume Veloso is the type of player we should have been signing to play here right?

I know we've lost them now but if we still had Keane & Berbs I'm pretty sure having a DM would have pretty much guaranteed us an extremely fruitful season. I can but only go to sleep now with broken dreams.

 

[Jody]

I don't think Veloso is a Davids type player, he's more Carricky IMO. Zokora is probably as close as it gets to some one like Edgar (in style rather than ability).

 

[SpurSince57]

There is a theory that Zoko was signed to replace Davids. Ed was never quite the same after that cracked shin or whatever it was, but the fuckwits who slated his performances after that forgot he was turning out and playing through the pain because there was no-one else. Shame he and Jol fell out, but there was no disguising the fact that he couldn't keep up with the pace.

I've watched him several tiimes for Ajax and he's looked great, which underlines the difference in pace and quality between the EPL and Eredivisie.

Don't think we have replaced him or Carrick, but if Zoko can be a bit more disciplined he can do a pretty good job. He was getting pulled out of position too often early on on Sunday, but gradually got better. I'm hoping he'll be a late developer. A year ago I was thinking WTF? but he's grown on me a lot. It's never going to happen, but I'd still like to see Ghaly given a second chance. I've still got fond memories of him booting Ballack andLampard into the air in the space of a minute at the Bridge—and. frankly, his moment of madness shirt-chucking doesn't compare with the shit we've had from Berbatov.

Veloso? I've only seen him in a couple of UEFA games and wasn't that struck. SC members who've seen more of him are even less whelmed. Bullet missed? Dunno. What I do know is that I'd vastly prefer a journeyman who wants to play for the shirt to some **** who's only interested in the money.

 

[danielneeds]

I've watched him several tiimes for Ajax and he's looked great, which underlines the difference in pace and quality between the EPL and Eredivisie.

Maybe another part of the reason he looks good at Ajax again is cos he is sitting infront of the back four doing what he does best, rather then trudging up and down the left wing like was at WHL? Makelele was 35 when he played the Champions League final. But a DM doesn't need the legs of a wide midfielder if they have brains.

 

[Rackybear]

Liberty, I dont think you can solely put our near top 4 achievement down to davids, I think that award goes to carrick.

Carrick offered us much need protection in front of the back four, ive lost count the # of times alan hansen and mark lawrenson praised him on MOTD constantly saying how disciplined he was in that role. His passing and play making was also second to none, the amount of times he put people through on goal, or made a significant pass in the game that eventually led to the goal, whether that be relasing keane 1on1 or playing in lennon down the right to set up mido / keane or whoever else, carrick was a great player and a major factor in our pretty decent defensive record that season, in which we had a partnership of Dawson / King and robbo in goal with our fullbacks being edman and pamarot.

We have improved our defence significantly since then, but since his departure, our defensive record has been one of the worst in the league...says it all really..

 

[SpurSince57]

Maybe another part of the reason he looks good at Ajax again is cos he is sitting infront of the back four doing what he does best, rather then trudging up and down the left wing like was at WHL? Makelele was 35 when he played the Champions League final. But a DM doesn't need the legs of a wide midfielder if they have brains.

This is so, and he was certainly stuck out on the left for us because of 'needs must'. Jol cut his coat according to his cloth; faut de mieux, Ed was our best option on the left (those who thought Ziegler was the best thing since Ginola will disagree, of course).

But most of the Eredivisie would struggle in the Championship (and that's being kind). PSV would challenge for a top six place in the EPL, Ajax, Feyenoord, Heerenveen would be slugging it out near the bottom, as for the rest… Pfft

 

[ziggy]

I was impressed with Zoko generally on Sun, needs to cut out those missed placed passes pdq though.

 

[Rackybear]

This is so, and he was certainly stuck out on the left for us because of 'needs must'. Jol cut his coat according to his cloth; faut de mieux, Ed was our best option on the left (those who thought Ziegler was the best thing since Ginola will disagree, of course).

But most of the Eredivisie would struggle in the Championship (and that's being kind). PSV would challenge for a top six place in the EPL, Ajax, Feyenoord, Heerenveen would be slugging it out near the bottom, as for the rest… Pfft

Might just be the reason why no-one seems willing to take a punt on Huntelaar , who on record, looks like potentially the best striker in the world (on paper). But then again, so did Kezman and Kuyt!

On a positive note, dutch players have proven they CAN be a success coming from the eredivisie, nistelrooy had the most prolific record in the dutch league, topping the scoring charts year in and year out (like huntelaar is doing now), but he came to united and did the same. Sneijder likewise went to madrid from ajax and has proved to be a quality signing for them in his first season, as well as being brill in the euro's. To think we were linked with him during Jol's era..:bang:

Somone has to take a punt on huntelaar sooner or later, a striker of his quality simply cannot stay in that league..its only a matter of time....

 

[SpurSince57]

Might just be the reason why no-one seems willing to take a punt on Huntelaar , who on record, looks like potentially the best striker in the world (on paper). But then again, so did Kezman and Kuyt!

On a positive note, dutch players have proven they CAN be a success coming from the eredivisie, nistelrooy had the most prolific record in the dutch league, topping the scoring charts year in and year out (like huntelaar is doing now), but he came to united and did the same. Sneijder likewise went to madrid from ajax and has proved to be a quality signing for them in his first season, as well as being brill in the euro's. To think we were linked with him during Jol's era..:bang:

Somone has to take a punt on huntelaar sooner or later, a striker of his quality simply cannot stay in that league..its only a matter of time....

I purposely didn't say that, because I keep being slated by those who seem to believe a fantastic scoring record in the Eredivisie automatically equates to fantastic scoring record in the EPL. It doesn't, RvN and to a considerably lesser extent van Pervie and Mido (!) aside. And I seem to have good company in my doubts.

There is no doubt that the Eredivisie does produce some wonderful players. It also produces some very disappointing ones. I watch Huntelaar banging them in and think, 'Yeah, wow!' and then remind myself he's banging them in against sides that would struggle in the Championship, if not League 1. I picture Bent and Defoe in the Eredivisie, running amok. Would we have more respect for Dazza if he was van Bent, with 30-odd goals under his belt? :shrug:

 

[Freezy Water]

I'd still like to see Ghaly given a second chance. I've still got fond memories of him booting Ballack andLampard into the air in the space of a minute at the Bridge—and. frankly, his moment of madness shirt-chucking doesn't compare with the shit we've had from Berbatov.

Good point - Ghaly was frustrated because he wanted to play for us whereas Berbatov couldnt be bothered!

I was never Ghaly's biggest fan but Berbatov's actions put Ghaly's into perspective of a player wanting to play for his club

 

[talkshowhost86]

I think Davids' influence was more to do with his experience than his ability by the time he got to us. Whenever he actually played in the middle for us it wasn't a particular success and I think he was actually quite like Zokora in the way his poor control occasionally cost us.

The player we never really replaced was Carrick because Carrick did the defensive role for us and did it fantastically. Modric brings the passing ability that Carrick had but not the defensive ability and that for me is really what we need to replace.

 

[jamesc0le]

carrick wasn't really defensively able, he could read the game pretty good and happened to be in the right place to knick balls away , a by- product of his game, if anything.. you guys are on cloud nine suggesting carrick was a major contribution to that defensive record, davids and the rest of the team and mido holding the ball up were mainly responsible cos they were working their nuts off , cos carrick, didn't really get through alot of work. carrick was a deep lying playmaker. was good at defending corners, good at reading the game. that is all. (a great player , obv.)

 

[Chimbo!]

in zokora's dreams...

 

[talkshowhost86]

carrick wasn't really defensively able, he could read the game pretty good and happened to be in the right place to knick balls away , a by- product of his game, if anything.. you guys are on cloud nine suggesting carrick was a major contribution to that defensive record, davids and the rest of the team and mido holding the ball up were mainly responsible cos they were working their nuts off , cos carrick, didn't really get through alot of work. carrick was a deep lying playmaker. was good at defending corners, good at reading the game. that is all. (a great player , obv.)

He 'happened' to be there because his defensive positioning was excellent. People mistake defensive midfielders as having to run around and tackle everybody and that simply isn't the case.

 

[jamesc0le]

He 'happened' to be there because his defensive positioning was excellent. People mistake defensive midfielders as having to run around and tackle everybody and that simply isn't the case.

just running around would have been good. i think all footballers should run around. they should all have a ''running around'' licence.. it would save me shouting at them, embarassing myself:-|

 

[mil1lion]

We missed the boat on Albelda imo. And it would have only cost a couple of million.

 

[guy]

carrick wasn't really defensively able, he could read the game pretty good and happened to be in the right place to knick balls away , a by- product of his game, if anything.. you guys are on cloud nine suggesting carrick was a major contribution to that defensive record, davids and the rest of the team and mido holding the ball up were mainly responsible cos they were working their nuts off , cos carrick, didn't really get through alot of work. carrick was a deep lying playmaker. was good at defending corners, good at reading the game. that is all. (a great player , obv.)

this is just wrong. He didnt have to "get through alot of work" because he read the game well and so was in the right spot at the right time to stop play coming through, intercept, tackle etc. Just because he didnt break opposition players in half and get 10 bookings a season doesnt mean he wasnt defensively very good!

If zokora had better reading/positioning he would be a seriously good player, but unfortunately he doesnt and other teams walk straight through our MF and Ledders/Woody have to come out of the def line to stop incoming MF (ala lampard and essien on sunday)

 

[jamesc0le]

chelsea had no problems walking through carrick either, back then. but whatever floats your boat.

 

[liberty]

I disagree about Carrick. Like I say, I think it was Davids who truly inspired us. His aggression, experience, aura, 110% work ethic and the type of attitude that jumps in from one tackle, straight into another.

With someone like Davids in our team Chelsea wouldn’t have scored their first goal against us. We had 2 or 3 players fall over in front of Lampard with ridiculous half-hearted challenges.

Carrick was good, don’t get me wrong, I thought he was very good in fact, but I’d rather have a midfield with Edgar Davids and say Modric than Carrick and one other.

 

[MendD3]

The only players who touch Davids (in his prime) are Essien and Gerrard, whom in my opinion are easily Chelsea & Liverpool's best players and definitely two of the best players in the world.