Zokora

[DC_Boy]

I saw him in the ACN semi final - he wasn't good to say the least - of coure he wasn't the only one - but more and more it seems his best position is CB - but that won' work in a lot of prem games - I just don't see him as being as good as TT O'Hara Hudd - time eill tell etc - but to me he's a squad player not someone I want to see starting in the big games

 

[pagevee]

Absolutely. Stats are for Baseball.

So would you guys want a pitcher that can throw an blast of a fastball or a sllider that cuts sharp but sometimes hangs up just enough (Dontrell Willis)? Or would you want a pitcher with precise placement on his pitches that out-thinks the batter (Greg Maddux back in the day)?

Just curious to see what everyone's opinion would be on this. I am definitely thinking this parlays into passing ability/range/etc.

Stats can lie in Baseball as well, less likely but definitely possible.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

That's correct. I suppose my position on micro-statistical analysis is that it only works for Baseball. Steve McLaren allegedly bases his coaching and team selection on statistics. To me, that reeks of hiding behind a pseudo-science.



B-C - as I pointed out above, it is impossible to compare Zokora and Tainio's stats as CM players because neither of them have played there regularly this season. So, with respect, I don't think you can assert that I'm "wrong" with regard to their short passing ability.



Absolutely. Stats are for Baseball.

But on the substantive issue - that a player's pass completion stats may vary not depending on how well he's playing, but on the type of ball he's trying to deliver (eg a simple ball into the feet of Gerry Armstrong or a difficult through ball to put Steve Archibald in), do you think I have a point?

Absoloutely.

 

[pagevee]

I saw him in the ACN semi final - he wasn't good to say the least - of coure he wasn't the only one - but more and more it seems his best position is CB - but that won' work in a lot of prem games - I just don't see him as being as good as TT O'Hara Hudd - time eill tell etc - but to me he's a squad player not someone I want to see starting in the big games

I thought I heard Zokora was playing on the back-line for IC in the ANC?

 

[yanno]

Absoloutely.

:up:

Your response deserves some more rep from Stoof. :wink:

Bottom line: I hope Zoko has a fantastic game tonight, wherever he plays!

 

[chinbo99]

Also, Zoko probably has the worst shot of any player I've ever seen at Spurs...
quote]

Stefan Freund anyone...

 

[DC_Boy]

I thought I heard Zokora was playing on the back-line for IC in the ANC?

he was and did well apparently - but for semi final went back to mid and wasn't good

I just think he hasn't sufficient attributes to be a good prem mid player - may be wrong of course - but he's a reasonable squad player for me ATM - ie - could well play tonight and do a decent job - but unless something surprising happens I don't see him starting in mid at Wembley -

 

[yanno]

When the play is front of Zokora he reads the game pretty well. Also, his short passing is actually very good and at least as good as Tainio's (who I am a big fan of). His forward passing is inferior to O'Hara's and he is less creative than either TT or O'hara.

walworthyid - I think our judgements are pretty similar, although you have a higher estimation of Zoko's short passing game than me.

The key reason I believe Zoko reads the game much better at the back is that far more of the game is played in front of him there. Whereas, crudely speaking, his vision needs to be more 360 degrees in C/DM. And playing at the back, when he did read the game well he was often able to use his speed to step up and break up an opposition attack.

Indeed, if we hadn't signed Hutton & Gunter, and kept Chimbo, I would have expected to see Juande giving Zoko some more games at RB.

 

[robbiesavagehasbreasts]

He's been rather convincing at CB.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Ironic that all three CM's we are discussing played in defence tonight eh ?

 

[yanno]

Ironic that all three CM's we are discussing played in defence tonight eh ?

Juande is a genius.

But......

Teemu ain't no RB.

Seriously, his lineups are impossible to predict. With that starting XI, I'd probably have played Teemu in CM, Zoko at RB, and the Hud at CB. But Senor Ramos is the gaffer, and sees them every day in training.

 

[DC_Boy]

well as I was saying earlier Zoko looks a better CB then mid - but the prem is a different place to the continent - so some games he could play there - but against CFC or Arsenal for example - no way

 

[DC_Boy]

I thought TT played really well at RB today - but of course he's no Hutton-

would be quite happy if TT played there again next Thurs though - however maybe he should play in mid again as I still kinda think he should start alongside JJ at Wembley - though Hudd has a great shout to play too - & O'Hara

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Juande is a genius.

But......

Teemu ain't no RB.

Seriously, his lineups are impossible to predict. With that starting XI, I'd probably have played Teemu in CM, Zoko at RB, and the Hud at CB. But Senor Ramos is the gaffer, and sees them every day in training.

I completely agree about Huddlestone at CB. or even kaboul.
I would have put Chimbonda at RB. Ohara at LB and had either Zokora or Tainio in CM.

I can understand Huddlestone in CM as the pace of these UEFA games often suite him. But I would have still been tempted to put him in at CB where he can still step out and play his lovely long passes. I just find that in midfield the bll often zips past him and in possession he doesn't make himself available enough and demand th ball enough. maybe it's his age but I'm not sure.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Without being classed as racialist I thought DZ had a nice glowing tan from lying and playing in the African sun.

(and I mean that most respectfully)

 

[spursgirl21]

I thought TT played really well at RB today - but of course he's no Hutton-

would be quite happy if TT played there again next Thurs though - however maybe he should play in mid again as I still kinda think he should start alongside JJ at Wembley - though Hudd has a great shout to play too - & O'Hara

I agree with everything you say there, defo start TT in the middle with JJ at Wembley it was a winning combo and will be again.

 

[chrissivad]

I thought TT played really well at RB today - but of course he's no Hutton-

would be quite happy if TT played there again next Thurs though - however maybe he should play in mid again as I still kinda think he should start alongside JJ at Wembley - though Hudd has a great shout to play too - & O'Hara

He has, been playing realy well, just dont think the Chelsea game is the right game for Hudd in CM.

I would go with Tainio though

 

[eViL]

Glad to see him back.

I'm glad you are! :shrug:

 

[eViL]

I would have put Chimbonda at RB.

Did you not notice how much time they got down their left once Chimbonda switched to his apparently preferred position?

If anyone needs any more evidence about why our defence was so shambolic early season, see Chimbonda's second half display at right back. (He was better on the left AMAZINGLY)

 

[Krafty]

I wasnt impressed with Zokora's performance, and everytime I see him my hopes for him drop a little more. He is not good enough to be a centre back or a defensive midfielder. He is lacking in both areas, and I remember seeing him play for the Ivory Coast after we had signed him and ebing a bit troubles. He doesnt seem to work in a midfield or defensive two.

He lacks the passing creativity and speed, plus finishing to play as an attacking midfielder, and I still dont think he has the defensive knowledge to be in charge of covering the back 4. The game just seems to pass him by and he doesnt stop or intercept the oppositions passes, nor becomes a third defender.

The one place I can see him succeeding is as a third centre back, being in charge of bringing the ball out of defence and then filling in when we defend.

I think Tainio, O'Hara and Huddlestone are better midfield options.