Player Ratings v WBA

StartingPrice said:

Sorry, but that's the piont. We could have done with Modric/Moutinho/whover, I'm not disagreeing with that. But Livermore was no worse, and in some ways, better (I know it's heresy) than Sandro. he played some decent balls, he made some decent tackles. he interracted well in midfield. You should judge him on who he is and what he did - unless you are going to judge Sandro negatively, too, because he isn't Modric/Moutinho/whover (but you aren't doing that).

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I gave livermore a 5 and sandro 6 hardly favouritism? You seem to forget other people have opinions- you think livermore was slightly better and I think Sandro. Either way Sandro or Livermore were superfluous and hindered our chances of winning.

Average performance from everyone,plenty of the ball but up front we have a total lack of football intelligence and unless we address that,we will be lucky to finish top 6.

Well done Daniel whose penny pinching methods have cost us 5 points already............way to go!

Also a big well done for bringing in a manager who apparently has exceptional ability in scouting opposition tactics..................however he still hasn't learned how to break them down.

By the way Danny boy,we need one or two attacking midfielders and at least another striker.

The clocks ticking,I suggest you get your finger out of your arse!

stov said:

I gave livermore a 5 and sandro 6 hardly favouritism? You seem to forget other people have opinions- you think livermore was slightly better and I think Sandro. Either way Sandro or Livermore were superfluous and hindered our chances of winning.

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No...and I responded to your post where you said maybe you should have gave them both 5.5. I just think there was little between them - Sandro was slightly better in the tackle, but gave the ball away feebly at times, Livermore hit some more adventurous passes. I'm not disagreeing with you for saying you think Sandro was slightly better - I am disagreeing with everyone who is grading Livermore as though he should have been Modric.

To be fair to Brad there was an awful lot of acreage between him and his back four, I think he's used to them being closer than they were today, he isn't a keeper who stands on his 18 yard line therefore he might not have been poor it was just tactically unsuited to his style of goalkeeping. Maybe he's a stick goalie where maybe we need a rush goalie, could be a problem this season.

Vert - MOM for me, some of those passes

Strong, sure and accurate passes with pace and just to top it off some great defending too and even when he got it wrong he still got back and put that foot in.

Excellent stuff.

TheGreenLily said:

Vert - MOM for me, some of those passes

Strong, sure and accurate passes with pace and just to top it off some great defending too and even when he got it wrong he still got back and put that foot in.

Excellent stuff.

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I wouldn't argue with that, he made a few errors early on and I thought he needs to come to terms with the pace of the English game; He did, it took him about 15 minutes, well pleased, looks really good.

heres my go

Freidel - some great saves but i would also say he added to our pressure in the last 5 mins by not coming out to get things! and calm us down in stead we just hoofed it he reminds me of a subbuteo goalkpeer - 6
Walker - He hasnt been good so far this season didnt even look great in pre season wonder if he injured or not making the euro's has dented his confidence - 5
Gallas - good until lukaku came on and ruined him time and time again for me it showed why i think we should him and dawson out and buy a new centre back or promote caulker overall - 6
Vertonghen - Good assured sometimes shaky but hes still getting used to the premier league. Also carries a goal threat good finish at the end when it got disallowed for what i dont know :S
BAE - Some good bits some bad bits some god damn crazy moments scored our goal tho and did okay overall - 6
Lennon - Needs to attack his man more was good in patches then poor in patches but he looks our biggest threat this year and our sharpest player - 6
Livermore - Think hes jenas mk 2! works hard with heart to make up for what he lacks in talent overall i would give him 5.5
Sandro - Poor game from him didnt look fit or match fit which is weird seems he played most of the brazil games! - 5-5
Bale - first half excellent always looked to make something happen no matter where he was on the bitch - 7
Van der vaart - Our best player simple soon as he went off they gained control of the match and the midfield! - 7
Defoe - awful awful awful selfish greedy little green eyed monster! several times in the first half he could have passed to a better placed teammate and he refused too! instead he just opted to shoot at a crowd of players and hope he got lucky! second half he got even worse! in 90 minutes he passed the ball 7 times that tells you all you need to know about this man personally im done with him - 3

Adebayor - wernt match fit but he gave us a threat when he came on didnt look like he was that bothered knew he wernt fit probably - n/a
Jenas - disgusting by our fans to boo him when he came on shameful! overall did nothing wrong although i think it was him that didnt close morrison down for their goal if that is true he should have done better overall n/a
Sigurdsson - Didnt do anything of note i can remember accept cross the corner in - n/a

AVB - Should never have took rafa off we lost control of the midfield soon as he went off dont know why defoe was kept on! i also have no idea why we went 4-4-3 it left us wide open then he made it even worse by sticking sigurdsson and livermore as our cm due! which was asking for trouble! we lost that game soon as he changed the system.

agrdavidsfan said:

AVB - Should never have took rafa off we lost control of the midfield soon as he went off dont know why defoe was kept on! i also have no idea why we went 4-4-3 it left us wide open then he made it even worse by sticking sigurdsson and livermore as our cm due! which was asking for trouble! we lost that game soon as he changed the system.

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So we lost the game 1-1 and had 12 players on the pitch.....??

Fucking disgrace.

AVB out.

Levy out.

We desperately need to keep VDV. It wasn't even one of his better games but he was the one player who had some craft and guile to make any use of the pace and directness of Bale/Lennon, he saw the passes that Livermore/Sandro/most players on planet earth don't see - as soon as he went off we struggled to move the ball around with some fizz and intelligence, the spaces that he creates suddenly dried up and our ball retention suffered. We have plenty of huff and puff, and decent huff and puff at that, we have plenty of pace and directness to worry the shit out of defences but with Modric off and the troubling rumblings about VDV going I am concerned about the brains in the team that makes use of the huff and puff, and releases the pacey whizzkids. Keep VDV, get Moutinho in and maybe another player who can play out wide and drift around then I will sleep easy, it will be an interesting few days and I hope we get it right.

I thought first half we were very good, 65% of the ball and had worked some decent enough chances without giving them a sniff - it's always difficult to go through teams with Defoe's pretty unimaginative movement off the ball and lack of involvement in the build up, and when he does get the ball in the final third opting to shoot rather than lay in better placed players. This is Defoe, we know what his game is about and it's very limited, he's always good to smash one in but I can't wait to see Ade fit and ready, because when he came on he wasn't in the correct timezone.

Second half it went all a bit Redknapp for my liking, we surrendered control of the ball when Rafa departed and it got a bit end to end ugly and that is something AVB will have to work on. Our pressing was decent today and you can see the changes he is implementing but it will be a work in progress for a while, and as with all pressing teams that intensity dropped late on and it got a bit ragged and that is when we desperately needed to just knock the ball around, make them work and play them out of the game. Generally though Lennon and Bale are certainly showing a huge improvement off the ball, which is going to be a huge benefit to us, the more we work on this it will become more drilled and coherent and I think we will be better off for it.

Lastly, Friedel is really worrying me, he is utterly terrified of departing his line which is no great surprise for a 40 year old - it makes it so easy to bully us in the area when the greatest weapon you can have in dealing with this is glued to his line like a barnacle. He doesn't drop many clangers but he invites pressure on us, and when we are leaving a lot of space in behind our defensive line you need a keeper who will actively come out and sweep up, Walker was put under unnecessary pressure in one instance today because Brad stayed on his line. He's also not great on the ball which led to him panicking and putting the ball out for a throw a couple of times when a keeper more comfortable on the ball would have spotted a pass, and kept possession.

It was fucking gutting to concede that late on, and also alarming to see how if we let go of VDV we are going to be almost devoid of craft but I still remain very positive about this new era at Spurs. I really do want AVB to succeed so maybe I am guilty of rose tinted vision, but things like our off the ball work which was our worst aspect under Redknapp are already showing a vast improvement, and whilst it wasn't a faultless debut I do like what I saw from Verthongen already, and I expect some excellent new signings to follow. Frustrating how our business is done so late, but hey the money that Levy shaves off those deals will keep Sandro and Kaboul in good wages when they shine this season. It's a defining week for us, but I think we will get it right.

Friedel 6 Great save, but his passivity is costing us goals. The charge against Gomes was he created panicked defences - Those last few minutes were fucking bedlam in our box when a nice firm Gomes punch was exactly what was needed.
Walker 7 Good game, lovely cut back for VDV first half.
Ekotto 6.5 He is a fine footballer but I wish he'd plug his brain in for a full 90 minutes more often.
Gallas 6 Looked a bit ragged today, but not terrible.
Verthongen 7 The moment he glided up the pitch and played a lovely ball for Bale then missed his chance I said to myself, 'this is our man'. Once he's adapted to the rigours of the EPL I think he is going to be great for us. Kaboul can play out from the back well, This guy can really play from the back!
Livermore 6.5 I can't make up my mind. Sometimes he plods around not doing much of note in either direction, but today I thought in spurts he showed that bit more that I've occasionally seen wanting to come out, but never quite had the confidence in himself to do. That was a fine ball he played for Defoe in the second half, and released Lennon with a beautiful pass in the first and a couple of times he drove forward with a bit of purpose that he needs to do more often.
Sandro 7 He's like a wasp at a picnic, would like to see him improve his play when he arrives in the final third though.
Lennon 6.5 After the first half hour I thought he was on the way to having a fine game, but he dropped off a bit after that. Good to see him darting in behind like Lennon at his best did.
Bale 6.5 Like Lennon, threatened to have a fine game but never quite happened in the end.
Defoe 5 Took 150 shots when there were better placed players to lay in, and to only offer up 7/9 passes when we had 60% of the ball is just not what we need leading the line for us.

Jenas Inevitably it was all JJs fault that we threw the game away to most of the punters leaving WHL, I mean it's shocking that a player that came on and actually didn't give the ball away once isn't it!

Especially pissed off this evening as I had a couple of quid on BAE first goal with us to win 2-0. Wasn't far off a nice £300 windfall.

this is what avb gets for rating jenas above huddlestone. mad stuff.

jamesc0le said:

this is what avb gets for rating jenas above huddlestone. mad stuff.

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Jenas is mobile.

jonathanhotspur said:

Looked to me like his Ade's priorities were all wrong this summer-more interested in wrangling over money than getting some preseason training under his belt. Fuck knows how much catching up he has to do.

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Yes disgraceful for a pro and indeed a highly paid pro to not work hard off season.

So basically...

Ratings...

Same shit as last year with a different manager.

This is supposedly better.

HotspurFC1950 said:

Yes disgraceful for a pro and indeed a highly paid pro to not work hard off season.

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Completed 2/4 passes in the time he was on the field. 1/3 in the attacking third.

If we continue to play Friedel in goal we will have real problems, all the pressure at the end that led to the goal stemmed from his being rooted to his line. Unlike Gomes he doesn't make too many howlers but that is because he takes no risks to help his defenders he simply stays on his line. If we aren't buying a new GK then we need to replace from within.

Similar story with Defoe, the "give it to me and I'll shoot" routine is great in the playground but utterly retarded at the top end of the PL.

Thank fuck we aren't watching American football, because the proverbial game of four quarters would be a real mind fuck. As it is we have to settle for the hackneyed but never truer game of two halves.

Firstly let me just make something clear. It is pointless blaming Levy for us not winning this game. If you are going to then credit him first with our great first half performance that saw us play WBA off the pitch and create some great openings, that on another day would have seen us come off two or three up.

We did not win that game because our second 45 minutes was simply not good enough. Not because we haven't signed one of the mediocre strikers that might have been available before we managed to get Adebayor or whoever else we might get yet. We did not win that game because we have some lazy players who need to be conditioned out of it.

Defoe is the perfect example of what happens when your Chairman backs his manager and buys early, paying over the odds for a mediocre striker.

The first half was up there with some of the best we've seen in the last few years. Our pressing was good, our movement was at times scintillating and chances were well crafted.

It was hard to pick out anyone who under performed first half. I wish Adebayor had been match fit because I think he'd have been more use the way we were dictating things and having so much ball in their third.

What a transformation second half. We completely lost our way. The same people committing the same lax sins continue to do so. But worse was that everyone seemed to drop of from their duties. Pressing became slack or non existent, movement was abysmal. Sandro and Livermore became motionless, neither wanting to receive the ball from the defence. I understand why it is necessary for Bale and Lennon to switch sometimes, but there are some players who always just seem less effective this way. These two, like Giggs, two of them. Having been heavily involved first half, neither had much influence in the second. They became marginalised and also worked less off the ball. A double wammy of loss.

We still desperately need a player that can deliver that killer pass (not just a through ball but various situations in the final third) the split second he sees it. We get ourselves into good positions and then players like Walker, Lennon, Bale rarely have that piece of brain combined with trust in their instinct to play it instantly, the killer moment passes.

There was some good play in the final third today, nearly all in the first half, I'm not saying there wasn't, but a little craft would go along way.

To that end, I thought the decision to remove VDV was baffling. We were struggling to get our foothold back in the game and to remove a player who was showing up for the ball was wrong. Adebayor for Defoe would have been the choice. The subsequent decisions were reasonable, particularly the third sub which got us back to a 4231 with the right type of players in the right type of roles. And until that final frantic three minutes I thought we'd regained control and shut the game down reasonably well.

I think the original decision for a corner That resulted ultimately in the goal) was wrong - Ekotto played it off their player - and I thought Dein missed a clear foul on our player at the far post when the ball came back in. But to be fair, West Brom had been the better side second half. We'd turned 65% possession into 49% by then and we could all see it coming. Lukaku is very raw, but he's a real handful. He'll never be Drogba, but he'll scare a few CB's yet.

The biggest plus overall was Vertonghen. I love a CB that can play football, it gives a team an extra dimension. And he made some good defensive saves late on too (one in particular saved a certain goal).

You just know this isn't going to be an easy birth for AVB. I just hope we are patient. I also think it will depend on whether he can get the lazy ****s to learn, without risking action from the players dressing room union a la Chelsea. Trouble is, a couple of the worst offenders are establish or big rep players.

Ratings:

Friedel 7 - Made two excellent saves, but his line limpet act scares the shit our of me and our defence at times.

Walker 6.5 - Combined well with Lennon first half.

Gallas 7 - Decent game

Vertonghen 8 - Very good game. No better sight in football than your CB striding out of defence and joining in an attack.

Ekotto 7 - Contributed to our gameplay, and did well for the goal, but must learn when and how to defend or be careful in some situations.

Livermore 6.5 - Had a decent enough first half but went into his shell second half and contributed very little. And when they got on top he struggled to cope.

Sandro 6 - Was busy first half but looked fucked second half.

Lennon 7.5 - Very good first half from Lennon. Like everyone else, faded a bit second, but part of that was because as a team we stopped doing the right things.

VDV 7 - Again, lively first half, and did play a wonderful ball second half, but suffered from our poor team second half.

Bale 5 - A decent first half, a lazy and poor second in general.

Defoe 5 - Even his shift and shoot wasn't working today, leaving us with the usual meagre offering.


And finally, to anyone who booed Jenas into the pitch, I dedicate that most galling of footballing fates - the conceding of the last ditch equaliser - to you wankers, whoever you are. You are wankers of the highest order. What ever shit befalls us as a club, you deserve it.

Bus-Conductor said:

Thank fuck we aren't watching American football, because the proverbial game of four quarters would be a real mind fuck. As it is we have to settle for the hackneyed but never truer game of two halves.

Firstly let me just make something clear. It is pointless blaming Levy for us not winning this game. If you are going to then credit him first with our great first half performance that saw us play WBA off the pitch and create some great openings, that on another day would have seen us come off two or three up.

We did not win that game because our second 45 minutes was simply not good enough. Not because we haven't signed one of the mediocre strikers that might have been available before we managed to get Adebayor or whoever else we might get yet. We did not win that game because we have some lazy players who need to be conditioned out of it.

Defoe is the perfect example of what happens when your Chairman backs his manager and buys early, paying over the odds for a mediocre striker.

The first half was up there with some of the best we've seen in the last few years. Our pressing was good, our movement was at times scintillating and chances were well crafted.

It was hard to pick out anyone who under performed first half. I wish Adebayor had been match fit because I think he'd have been more use the way we were dictating things and having so much ball in their third.

What a transformation second half. We completely lost our way. The same people committing the same lax sins continue to do so. But worse was that everyone seemed to drop of from their duties. Pressing because slack or non existent, movement was abysmal. Sandro and Livermore became motionless, neither wanting to receive the ball from the defence. I understand why it is necessary for Bale and Lennon to switch sometimes, but there are some players who always just seem less effective this way. These two, like Giggs, are not two of them. Having been heavily involved first half, neither had much influence in the second. They became marginalised and also worked less off the ball. A double wammy of loss.

We still desperately need a player that can deliver that killer pass (not just a through ball but various situations in the final third) the split second he sees it. We get ourselves into good positions and then players like Walker, Lennon, Bale rarely have that piece of brain combined with trust in their instinct to play it instantly, the killer moment passes.

There was some good play in the final third today, nearly all in the first half, I'm not saying there wasn't, but a little craft would go along way.

To that end, I thought the decision to remove VDV was baffling. We were struggling to get our foothold back in the game and to remove a player who was showing up for the ball was wrong. Adebayor for Defoe would have been the choice. The subsequent decisions were reasonable, particularly the third sub which got us back to a 4231 with the right type of players in the right type of roles. And until that final frantic three minutes I thought we'd regained control and shut the game down reasonably well.

I think the original decision for a corner That resulted ultimately in the goal) was wrong - Ekotto played it off their player - and I thought Dein missed a clear foul on our player at the far post when the ball came back in. But to be fair, West Brom had been the better side second half. We'd turned 65% possession into 49% by then and we could all see it coming. Lukaku is very raw, but he's a real handful. He'll never be Drogba, but he'll scare a few CB's yet.

The biggest plus overall was Vertonghen. I love a CB that can play football, it gives a team an extra dimension. And he made some good defensive saves late on too (one in particular saved a certain goal).

You just know this isn't going to be an easy birth for AVB. I just hope we are patient. I also think it will depend on whether he can get the lazy ****s to learn, without risking action from the players dressing room union a la Chelsea. Trouble is, a couple of the worst offenders are establish or big rep players.

Ratings:

Friedel 7 - Made two excellent saves, but his line limpet act scares the shit our of me and our defence at times.

Walker 6.5 - Combined well with Lennon first half.

Gallas 7 - Decent game

Vertonghen 8 - Very good game. No better sight in football than your CB striding out of defence and joining in an attack.

Ekotto 7 - Contributed to our gameplay, and did well for the goal, but must learn when and how to defend or be careful in some situations.

Livermore 6.5 - Had a decent enough first half but went into his shell second half and contributed very little. And when they got on top he struggled to cope.

Sandro 6 - Was busy first half but looked fucked second half.

Lennon 7.5 - Very good first half from Lennon. Like everyone else, faded a bit second, but part of that was because as a team we stopped doing the right things.

VDV 7 - Again, lively first half, and did play a wonderful ball second half, but suffered from our poor team second half.

Bale 5 - A decent first half, a lazy and poor second in general.

Defoe 5 - Even his shift and shoot wasn't working today, leaving us with the usual meagre offering.


And finally, to anyone who booed Jenas into the pitch, I dedicate that most galling of footballing fates - the conceding of the last ditch equaliser - to you wankers, whoever you are. You are wankers of the highest order. What ever shit befalls us as a club, you deserve it.

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Well said.

i never saw jenas come on the pitch, all i saw was the slow raising of a big white fucking flag.

Bus-Conductor said:

Thank fuck we aren't watching American football, because the proverbial game of four quarters would be a real mind fuck. As it is we have to settle for the hackneyed but never truer game of two halves.

Firstly let me just make something clear. It is pointless blaming Levy for us not winning this game. If you are going to then credit him first with our great first half performance that saw us play WBA off the pitch and create some great openings, that on another day would have seen us come off two or three up.

We did not win that game because our second 45 minutes was simply not good enough. Not because we haven't signed one of the mediocre strikers that might have been available before we managed to get Adebayor or whoever else we might get yet. We did not win that game because we have some lazy players who need to be conditioned out of it.

Defoe is the perfect example of what happens when your Chairman backs his manager and buys early, paying over the odds for a mediocre striker.

The first half was up there with some of the best we've seen in the last few years. Our pressing was good, our movement was at times scintillating and chances were well crafted.

It was hard to pick out anyone who under performed first half. I wish Adebayor had been match fit because I think he'd have been more use the way we were dictating things and having so much ball in their third.

What a transformation second half. We completely lost our way. The same people committing the same lax sins continue to do so. But worse was that everyone seemed to drop of from their duties. Pressing because slack or non existent, movement was abysmal. Sandro and Livermore became motionless, neither wanting to receive the ball from the defence. I understand why it is necessary for Bale and Lennon to switch sometimes, but there are some players who always just seem less effective this way. These two, like Giggs, are not two of them. Having been heavily involved first half, neither had much influence in the second. They became marginalised and also worked less off the ball. A double wammy of loss.

We still desperately need a player that can deliver that killer pass (not just a through ball but various situations in the final third) the split second he sees it. We get ourselves into good positions and then players like Walker, Lennon, Bale rarely have that piece of brain combined with trust in their instinct to play it instantly, the killer moment passes.

There was some good play in the final third today, nearly all in the first half, I'm not saying there wasn't, but a little craft would go along way.

To that end, I thought the decision to remove VDV was baffling. We were struggling to get our foothold back in the game and to remove a player who was showing up for the ball was wrong. Adebayor for Defoe would have been the choice. The subsequent decisions were reasonable, particularly the third sub which got us back to a 4231 with the right type of players in the right type of roles. And until that final frantic three minutes I thought we'd regained control and shut the game down reasonably well.

I think the original decision for a corner That resulted ultimately in the goal) was wrong - Ekotto played it off their player - and I thought Dein missed a clear foul on our player at the far post when the ball came back in. But to be fair, West Brom had been the better side second half. We'd turned 65% possession into 49% by then and we could all see it coming. Lukaku is very raw, but he's a real handful. He'll never be Drogba, but he'll scare a few CB's yet.

The biggest plus overall was Vertonghen. I love a CB that can play football, it gives a team an extra dimension. And he made some good defensive saves late on too (one in particular saved a certain goal).

You just know this isn't going to be an easy birth for AVB. I just hope we are patient. I also think it will depend on whether he can get the lazy ****s to learn, without risking action from the players dressing room union a la Chelsea. Trouble is, a couple of the worst offenders are establish or big rep players.

Ratings:

Friedel 7 - Made two excellent saves, but his line limpet act scares the shit our of me and our defence at times.

Walker 6.5 - Combined well with Lennon first half.

Gallas 7 - Decent game

Vertonghen 8 - Very good game. No better sight in football than your CB striding out of defence and joining in an attack.

Ekotto 7 - Contributed to our gameplay, and did well for the goal, but must learn when and how to defend or be careful in some situations.

Livermore 6.5 - Had a decent enough first half but went into his shell second half and contributed very little. And when they got on top he struggled to cope.

Sandro 6 - Was busy first half but looked fucked second half.

Lennon 7.5 - Very good first half from Lennon. Like everyone else, faded a bit second, but part of that was because as a team we stopped doing the right things.

VDV 7 - Again, lively first half, and did play a wonderful ball second half, but suffered from our poor team second half.

Bale 5 - A decent first half, a lazy and poor second in general.

Defoe 5 - Even his shift and shoot wasn't working today, leaving us with the usual meagre offering.


And finally, to anyone who booed Jenas into the pitch, I dedicate that most galling of footballing fates - the conceding of the last ditch equaliser - to you wankers, whoever you are. You are wankers of the highest order. What ever shit befalls us as a club, you deserve it.

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Jenas looked like he was himself

I feel the decision to sub VDV for Ade was purely a morale boosting thing for Defoe, which unfortunately had an adverse effect on the performance.

The Pressing game did drop but it was always going to in that game, when we hunted it down and received the ball we carried on playing at 100 miles an hour and this resulted in a spell of basketball-esque play.

Brad, we know camping is a major pastime in the US but leave it till after matches

Gallas not good enough on the ball for possesion football (yes strange seeing as a long time arse)

As said before, Sandro has not had a pre-season. Yes he has played games, but pre-season is about conditioning yourself for a whole season.

Livermore was decent enough, tidy and had a couple of dynamic moments that led to quick counters (one where he intercepted and rolled a fast pass into Defoe who pulled his shot wide)

As for the Jenas boo boys, get a fucking clue.

and Lennon's not a RWF.