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World Cup Discussion Thread - Day 15 (28 June)

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,337
329,028
Dier is an average CM and a much better CB but people still can't see it.

There's the camp that defend him no matter what presumably because of his good attitude and the camp that say he's useless or not good enough etc. I'm in neither of those camps. He's just playing out of position.

I agree but he hasn't played as a CB for nigh on 18 months bar the odd game.
 

TheVoiceofReason

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2005
6,320
15,685
Is Rose a better LB? Yes without doubt.

Has he shown in the last few weeks his head is all over the shop? Absolutely

Lets say he make a huge mistake which costs us in the knockout stages, or worse still is called upon in a penalty shoot out. Christ if he's struggling with things now imagine what it would do to the bloke to go through what Southgate, Waddle or Pearce went through after effectively being the one that "lets the entire country down". There was zero pressure on this game, and by Southgates substitutions it was clear he didn't care if we lost it. Had this been a case we had to get a result Rose would not have started and for very good reason. He is clearly not mentally 100%.

If this is the case then he definitely should not be there in the first place.
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,337
329,028
Yeah, there's even a danger this whole CM experiment could make him a worse CB too. Poch needs to sit down and have a word with him. He said in his book that he sees him as a CB.

Hope so.
 

Zippy1980

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2018
3,313
6,707
Dier has went backwards as a player this last year. Poch needs to have a serious think about what position he plays Eric going forward.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Colombia v Senegal
This was a really scruffy game, but eventually the right result was eeked out by Colombia, who definitely played more of the football, whilst Senegal did their best impression of 1990's Wimbledon. I thought Colombia looked great against Poland, but they looked so insipid and incoherent tonight, it was like a different team.

England Res v Belgium Res
Only Martinez could be stupid enough to win the only game in his managerial career that he needed to lose. This was pretty turgid stuff. First game that VAR couldn't even be arsed to get involved in. Surely nobody can believe Dier should be anywhere near a midfield. And RLC seems to be channeling his inner Trevor Brooking, he's got some ability but everything he does, he does so slowly, and he rarely plays anything quickly or incisively. Rashford underlined why he shouldn't be starting games, doesn't get his head up enough and is nowhere near as clever in his movement with or without the ball as Sterling.

That said, Martinez has handed England a genuine chance at making at least the semi-finals. Columbia, especially without Rodriguez, are beatable and Sweden and Switzerland are definitely beatable.
 
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fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
Dembele the best Spurs player today by some distance. Rose was ok but that effort on their goal was poor. Gave him too much space and looked like he couldnt be bothered after he was beaten. Dier didnt do much at all. But to be honest, most of the players on both sides looked to be phoning it in.
 

Pellshek

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2015
2,509
7,289
I think some people are overstating Rose's performance tonight - I thought it was pretty scrappy to be honest. Not enough there for Southgate to drop Young over. Ditto RLC vs. Dele. I didn't think RLC was controlled enough tonight for the big-time rounds of a WC. If Dele is fit, he'll play.

How would Jonjo Shelvey have done tonight as a sub instead of Wellbeck? Yeah, probably shite, but can't help feeling he'd have added an attacking dimension to England that would've worked - accurate balls over the top to Vardy, or down the channels to Rashford, or releasing the wing backs in behind, or maybe even scoring himself (he'd probably have done better with the free kick than TAA). It'd be silly to over-idealise Shelvey - he's bad as often as he's good - but he does have that natural ability.

Still can't quite decide if I'd prefer Japan ==> Brazil/Mexico or Colombia ==> Sweden/Swiss. I think I slightly prefer the former to bank that QF place, but Colombia have been pretty damn cack and England should not be losing to them, which makes the SF a real goer, Sweden's hex over England notwithstanding.
 

Ekmek

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2014
1,026
2,523
Colombia is a very much harder opponent than Japan.

Its just arrogant trying to plan ahead for an ”easier” quarter final.
 

Syn_13

Fly On, Little Wing
Jul 17, 2008
14,851
20,659

Good article. My only disagreement is that I felt Alexander-Arnold was incredibly poor. His runs were directionless and crossing woeful for the position he was playing. He can do better, he has talent, but that was nothing like the young Liverpool player of this season.

Not a disagreement to the article, but more should be said about how terrible Delph is. Seriously, stick him on a plane back home. I don't think he once looked up before releasing the ball. Way too many touches. Genuinely would've preferrd Shelvey and he's no world beat either, but at least he knows how to play a pass.
 

LeSoupeKitchen

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2011
3,102
7,621
I'm usually fairly calm through Spurs defeats. I'm absolutely
I'd still prefer to play them over brasil though. If we fail we fail. It seems people are so burned by england that they are just looking for a more "heads held high" out.

We are obviously going to crash and burn at some stage but we should at least try the path of least resitance.

Just try and get as far as we can.

I'm for the "heads held high" route because England don't play well under pressure. Would be much more confident against Brazil under an overwhelming feeling of goodwill and low expectation that I would against Sweden or Switzerland being favourites.

Anything short of getting to the semi final is now a frustrating failure and the same old England story. It didnt have to be this way.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,355
87,831
Good article. My only disagreement is that I felt Alexander-Arnold was incredibly poor. His runs were directionless and crossing woeful for the position he was playing. He can do better, he has talent, but that was nothing like the young Liverpool player of this season.

Not a disagreement to the article, but more should be said about how terrible Delph is. Seriously, stick him on a plane back home. I don't think he once looked up before releasing the ball. Way too many touches. Genuinely would've preferrd Shelvey and he's no world beat either, but at least he knows how to play a pass.
I'm not sure if it's a failure of Southgates or just the limitation of the squad he has and is trying to get the right balance, but I'd say quite a few players in this squad aren't recreating their club form because they're not being utilised in a way that suits them.

It's no surprise to me that all the spurs players (bar Dier unfortunately) are the best performers overall... Mostly because they just play their own game the Poch has coached them.

Southgate should just play all the eligible Spurs players, and pay Poch a consultation fee...
 

wirE

I'm a well-known member
Sep 27, 2005
4,676
5,582
This :ROFLMAO:

Edit; due to death threats (joke) and a promise of eternal banishment from SC, this link is removed :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,586
5,861
I'm not being funny, but getting a game when the opposition dropped their main players too can't be motivating.

What's more important is loss of momentum. Winning breeds success. Kane on a hot streak and now he gets a week off when he could have maybe been going for record top scorer at world cup. These players are finally getting 3-6 games in a row to gel and will only get better together. Can't help but think England missed a chance to really send a message to the other teams.
 

Riandor

COB Founder
May 26, 2004
9,414
11,621
If Kane had played and gotten injured in this essentially meaningless match, you would all be screaming blue murder.

No one was trying, it was a crap match. Columbia will be tough, because they’re physical as well as technical, and I worry that England are a little soft in midfield, highlighted by Panama frankly.

Equally though England have an attacking threat that will frighten Columbia, so it should be a good match. It’s just annoying that if we lose to Columbia, it will all be about how disrespectful we were to throw the Belgium match.
 

teok

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
10,837
33,607
Very "arrogant" of england to lose that football match(?) Were belgium being "arrogant" as well for rotating players?

Also if you ever find yourself agreeing with piers morgan take a long look in the mirror and re evaluate things. (y)
 

wirE

I'm a well-known member
Sep 27, 2005
4,676
5,582
We could lose to japan too. Just like we could lose to Brazil, Mexico, Sweden, Switzerland or Togo.


We've given ourselves the best chance of progressing over the course of 2 games.

Bloody media/journo/twitter experts.
 
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