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Style of play

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
I have been impressed by Poch’s adaptability.

I was on the fence with regards to his hiring. I thought he might be a strict play systems based manager and install a system regardless of personnel.

When we had Walker and Rose as wing backs and had front four pressing we had a distinctive high pressing style.

We no longer have that but have continued to improve. This is a good thing.

Have we really though?

The OP was referring to performances over the last 18-24 months or so and I can’t help but agree. I look back at the team with Rose, Walker and Dembele and Wanyama, with Kane as the focal point and Son, Eriksen, Alli etc interchanging behind him and it’s a far cry from how we’ve been playing since.

Now of course the obvious thing is a fair few of those players aren’t here anymore and injury has curtailed Rose and finished Wanyama, but some of that is down to us. We took too long to replace Dembele and sold Walker and didn’t replace him adequately.

And yes the end of that season I’m referring to coincides with the move from WHL and the wait for the new stadium, so there are mitigating factors.

But the bottom line is that we are going backwards in terms of performances. Kane is continually dropping deep to collect the ball, the width we had from out fullbacks has been blunted, we don’t collectively press as effectively, look miles less secure at the back and often pedestrian in attack.

Of course teams have to evolve and we need to give Poch a little time to integrate the new players, but despite maintaining our position in the top four in the last couple of years I find myself far less confident when beginning to watch games.

Two particular things which concern me that cannot imo be attributed to mitigating circumstances and which can only be attributed to Poch are :

Why do we start games so badly? It’s a good thing if Poch can tweak things at HT and improve us in the 2nd half, but when it becomes the norm rather than an occasional thing you have to ask the question why have we set up so badly in the first place?

I wouldn’t mind if it was just a case of starting slowly, knocking around and being patient whilst being in control. It isn’t that though. We’ve been starting slowly for ages and usually go a goal down, often lucky to avoid more and looking lethargic and lacking ideas.

The other thing is I’m sometimes left scratching my head as to what we are trying to do in a game. Yesterday being an example.

Nobody expected us to dominate City. I didn’t even expect us to trade blows with them. They are simply on a different level. I did expect us at least to have a game plan to compete. Yeah I know we got a point, but we were battered for the majority of the game.

Fair enough we can’t go toe to toe with them, but then surely we must counter attack them? And yet we leave the only player available to do that on the bench. In the end we really did nothing other than wait to be beaten ( and again yes I know we got a point, but it was gooner levels of jammyness ).
 

Gareth88

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2017
4,592
6,727
Yes exactly so let's not judge after 180 mins of football has been played. You're willing to use these two matches as evidence to say that Liverpool have built their team better than ours is quite simply knee jerk nonsense.

I'm not going through the last season debate again, Liverpool had a better squad than ours and they bought well, no one's disagreeing with that so I don't understand why that keeps being brought up?

As I keep saying but you keee ignoring, get our key players back on the pitch and our new ones up to speed then we can talk.
I appreciate the level headed approach, We didn't play well yesterday against a team that are other worldly yet we still got something out of the game. We will pick up throughout the season I am sure and this was a big point yesterday for us.
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
15,974
32,682
Why are we comparing ourselves to Man City? Forget about them they're on a different planet and are playing Harlem Globetrotter football, not one team in the world can compare to them, that's just how it is.

A fair comparison would be Liverpool, similar financial footing now, similar level players, I'd say both teams will be the nearest challengers to City this season. So for comparisons sake Liverpool fans are concerned that their team have been suspect defensively so far this season, in their first 3 matches they've been breached over 40 times for example.

They will of course improve and so will we, we aren't the only ones having teething problems and we're coming off the back of a season where we went downhill, think the fans just need to relax personally.
If we aren't comparing ourselves to City then what's the point at this stage? We might get the odd bit of luck, but if you want to win consistently then we are going to have to beat them or at least match them.

By all intents and purposes and from Pochettino's own mouth, we are now not the club we were 2 or 3 years ago where we had limited financial resources and low-ish European reputation.

This early in the season of course we are still finding our feet and being sure of our core 15-16 players, and that's a legitimate excuse. However in say 3/4 months time, we will have an amazing squad, hopefully found our core 15-16 to rely on, the new signings will be bedded in and Pochettino should have settled on his primary ideal system.

In my eyes, if we performed like we did yesterday in a few months time it will be wholly unacceptable. Of course you can get beaten, but it's always the manner of the display that is most important in the long term. In a few months time a team such as ours should not be getting steamrollered by anyone. Levy has backed his man, we've moved into our new ground and i'm afraid after the bedding in period there can't be many excuses for Pochettino anymore.

I'm super confident we won't see that level of performance again this season though.
 

Gareth88

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2017
4,592
6,727
Even though we were rode our luck and had a rabbits foot with a horse shoe nailed to it we still improved on last seasons result, I'll take it.
Last years results from top 6 games city at home granted the majority of these games were at the tail end of the season but still:
City 2-1 Liverpool, City 3-1 Arsenal, City 3-1 Utd, City 6-0 Chelsea, City 1-0 Spur
 
Last edited:

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
If we aren't comparing ourselves to City then what's the point at this stage? We might get the odd bit of luck, but if you want to win consistently then we are going to have to beat them or at least match them.

By all intents and purposes and from Pochettino's own mouth, we are now not the club we were 2 or 3 years ago where we had limited financial resources and low-ish European reputation.

This early in the season of course we are still finding our feet and being sure of our core 15-16 players, and that's a legitimate excuse. However in say 3/4 months time, we will have an amazing squad, hopefully found our core 15-16 to rely on, the new signings will be bedded in and Pochettino should have settled on his primary ideal system.

In my eyes, if we performed like we did yesterday in a few months time it will be wholly unacceptable. Of course you can get beaten, but it's always the manner of the display that is most important in the long term. In a few months time a team such as ours should not be getting steamrollered by anyone. Levy has backed his man, we've moved into our new ground and i'm afraid after the bedding in period there can't be many excuses for Pochettino anymore.

I'm super confident we won't see that level of performance again this season though.

Fair points.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
I didn’t use two matches I’ve used 5 seasons mate. They’ve got to 5 cup finals, ran city within a point of the title 98 points and beat us in the CL final so not knee jerk at all, it’s just that so far the first 2 matches are not giving too much hope that poch knows our best team and formation etc which certainly won’t help with us achieving better consistency in the league again.

And as I said in my other post I do agree let’s see where we are at in Oct/Nov once summer window is shut for Europe and new players have settled in sure that will make a difference. And let’s see When we play city in the home fixtures if we get completely outplayed to a similar extnent again then that will be worrying.

The issue is though Eriksen is likely to leave so lo celso is just a like for like for him, sure we need son and dele back but poch needs to work out better ways of playing without 1-2 big attacking players, all top teams have injuries etc, city and lpool replace like for like, you just use excuses like oh wait until x z y are back and up to speed etc, no more excuses. I’m not saying we had to win yesterday but the extent we got dominated was embarrassing 30 shots to 2! We are supposedly the 3rd best team in the league not a bloody league one side hanging on for dear life.

If you want to use selective data be my guest but I'm gonna highlight something you choose to ignore. In those previous season before last we finished above them 4 out of 5 seasons (3 out of 4 under Klopp) you can use all the cup finals all you want but the mark of progress has always been the league not cup runs. Last season they obviously were much better than us because they bought well and improved the holes in their team - no one is disputing that. We have done just that fixed the gaping holes (mostly) and hope to push on so and now we have a squad to match Liverpool's so when you're comparing both teams you compare our squad as of now now to theirs which is what you're doing hence why the two matches isn't the best way to judge.

I'm not sure what you've heard about Eriksen either but we don't know whether he's going to stay or leave, no one does so there's no point self loathing about something which hasn't happened yet. Yes it was a shit performance and we were pinned back but I'm not gonna sit here and panic because I know we can be infinitely better and we have key players coming back, again you can call them excuses as much as you want but they are key factors as to why we aren't up to speed which you're happy to choose to ignore, it's up to you.
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
11,234
46,574
I'd really like us to go back to our 16/17 tactics of switching between the 4-2-3-1 and the 3-4-3 throughout the game allowing our fullbacks to get high up the pitch and overload the opposition while also having enough defensive stability if we're caught on the break.

Screen Shot 2019-08-18 at 10.05.58 AM.png
 

Cochise

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
4,762
12,519
A lot of good points being made, especially about us pacing ourselves better in games, but yesterday was a stark reminder of how poor we were yesterday. I actually think the plan was to draw them onto us and then break the press with N'Dombele and Sissoko, but it didn't work for multiple factors.

My main concerns though;

1) It starts from the back with Lloris. He's one of the best shot stoppers in the league, sometimes a bit flaky with his decision making, but for the most part safe. His one glaring weakness is his passing. I'm not talking about how he actually kicks the ball, more his passing choices. There were times yesterday when he continuously went side to side, putting the CB's under increasing pressure when Winks and N'Dombele were good options. His lack of confidence in either himself or his CM's causes a lot of problems and eventually leads to the long ball.

2) Receiving on the turn. If you watch Liverpool and City, they are always able to get the ball to players on the turn who are then able to face forwards and put their opponents on the back foot. We do not. Every one of our players receives passes either whilst facing our goal or backpedalling.

3) Which brings us to positioning. Our shape to pass it out from the back cannot be right if we are struggling to do it throughout pre-season and in the opening two match days. To be fair to the team, there were times in the game where we actually worked it well along the flanks before moving it inside for N'Dombele, but the occassions were rare.

4) Speed of ball. Vertonghen is criminal for this tbh. The passing needs to be crisp yet our CB's and GK play really slow football. The ball travels so slowly that we are already under pressure upon receiving it. Any time/space created through good movement can be negated by this.

5) The press. I honestly don't think it's worth it against City, they are that good at getting past it that all you do is open up the pitch for them. Yesterday it was all mistimed, Lamela and Eriksen were a couple of steps behind Kane so that when he initiated the follow up was just off and City got out whilst cutting out three of our players with ease. I'd want to at least make them commit more men to getting out of their own half.

Now I would expect point five to improve over time, but it's 1-4 that I think we really need to work on. I would expect our attacking play to improve exponentially if these were non-factors.
 

scat1620

L'espion mal fait
May 11, 2008
16,280
52,487
Have we really though?

The OP was referring to performances over the last 18-24 months or so and I can’t help but agree. I look back at the team with Rose, Walker and Dembele and Wanyama, with Kane as the focal point and Son, Eriksen, Alli etc interchanging behind him and it’s a far cry from how we’ve been playing since.

Now of course the obvious thing is a fair few of those players aren’t here anymore and injury has curtailed Rose and finished Wanyama, but some of that is down to us. We took too long to replace Dembele and sold Walker and didn’t replace him adequately.

And yes the end of that season I’m referring to coincides with the move from WHL and the wait for the new stadium, so there are mitigating factors.

But the bottom line is that we are going backwards in terms of performances. Kane is continually dropping deep to collect the ball, the width we had from out fullbacks has been blunted, we don’t collectively press as effectively, look miles less secure at the back and often pedestrian in attack.

Of course teams have to evolve and we need to give Poch a little time to integrate the new players, but despite maintaining our position in the top four in the last couple of years I find myself far less confident when beginning to watch games.

Two particular things which concern me that cannot imo be attributed to mitigating circumstances and which can only be attributed to Poch are :

Why do we start games so badly? It’s a good thing if Poch can tweak things at HT and improve us in the 2nd half, but when it becomes the norm rather than an occasional thing you have to ask the question why have we set up so badly in the first place?

I wouldn’t mind if it was just a case of starting slowly, knocking around and being patient whilst being in control. It isn’t that though. We’ve been starting slowly for ages and usually go a goal down, often lucky to avoid more and looking lethargic and lacking ideas.

The other thing is I’m sometimes left scratching my head as to what we are trying to do in a game. Yesterday being an example.

Nobody expected us to dominate City. I didn’t even expect us to trade blows with them. They are simply on a different level. I did expect us at least to have a game plan to compete. Yeah I know we got a point, but we were battered for the majority of the game.

Fair enough we can’t go toe to toe with them, but then surely we must counter attack them? And yet we leave the only player available to do that on the bench. In the end we really did nothing other than wait to be beaten ( and again yes I know we got a point, but it was gooner levels of jammyness ).
Agree with every single point in this post. Yep, there are some mitigating factors that might explain some (but not all) of our drop-off in performances and results over the last 2 years, but IMO it's clear that we have been going backwards on the pitch in 2017/18 and 2018/19.

I think some of that decline has been due to the frankly woeful player retention and recruitment in those two seasons, so I'm hopeful that the very good business we did this summer will go a long way towards solving the lack of quality depth that has been plaguing the squad for the previous 2 years.

But I still have some concerns over our tactics and work-rate in games, as described in your post, and this is an area where I hope we see improvements this year from both Poch and some of our other key players (Eriksen and Kane, for example).
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
Have we really though?

The OP was referring to performances over the last 18-24 months or so and I can’t help but agree. I look back at the team with Rose, Walker and Dembele and Wanyama, with Kane as the focal point and Son, Eriksen, Alli etc interchanging behind him and it’s a far cry from how we’ve been playing since.

Now of course the obvious thing is a fair few of those players aren’t here anymore and injury has curtailed Rose and finished Wanyama, but some of that is down to us. We took too long to replace Dembele and sold Walker and didn’t replace him adequately.

And yes the end of that season I’m referring to coincides with the move from WHL and the wait for the new stadium, so there are mitigating factors.

But the bottom line is that we are going backwards in terms of performances. Kane is continually dropping deep to collect the ball, the width we had from out fullbacks has been blunted, we don’t collectively press as effectively, look miles less secure at the back and often pedestrian in attack.

Of course teams have to evolve and we need to give Poch a little time to integrate the new players, but despite maintaining our position in the top four in the last couple of years I find myself far less confident when beginning to watch games.

Two particular things which concern me that cannot imo be attributed to mitigating circumstances and which can only be attributed to Poch are :

Why do we start games so badly? It’s a good thing if Poch can tweak things at HT and improve us in the 2nd half, but when it becomes the norm rather than an occasional thing you have to ask the question why have we set up so badly in the first place?

I wouldn’t mind if it was just a case of starting slowly, knocking around and being patient whilst being in control. It isn’t that though. We’ve been starting slowly for ages and usually go a goal down, often lucky to avoid more and looking lethargic and lacking ideas.

The other thing is I’m sometimes left scratching my head as to what we are trying to do in a game. Yesterday being an example.

Nobody expected us to dominate City. I didn’t even expect us to trade blows with them. They are simply on a different level. I did expect us at least to have a game plan to compete. Yeah I know we got a point, but we were battered for the majority of the game.

Fair enough we can’t go toe to toe with them, but then surely we must counter attack them? And yet we leave the only player available to do that on the bench. In the end we really did nothing other than wait to be beaten ( and again yes I know we got a point, but it was gooner levels of jammyness ).

We keep getting praise for turning games around more than any team but it's because we go 1-0 down more than all the other top6 teams. Last season I was almost always wanting the other team to score first at times because we don't turn up until they do, in games we go 1-0 in we tend to get overconfident and fuck it up. Watford, Wolves springs to mind.
 

madroosta

Bazinga...
Jun 29, 2004
1,621
507
If we aren't comparing ourselves to City then what's the point at this stage? We might get the odd bit of luck, but if you want to win consistently then we are going to have to beat them or at least match them.

By all intents and purposes and from Pochettino's own mouth, we are now not the club we were 2 or 3 years ago where we had limited financial resources and low-ish European reputation.

This early in the season of course we are still finding our feet and being sure of our core 15-16 players, and that's a legitimate excuse. However in say 3/4 months time, we will have an amazing squad, hopefully found our core 15-16 to rely on, the new signings will be bedded in and Pochettino should have settled on his primary ideal system.

In my eyes, if we performed like we did yesterday in a few months time it will be wholly unacceptable. Of course you can get beaten, but it's always the manner of the display that is most important in the long term. In a few months time a team such as ours should not be getting steamrollered by anyone. Levy has backed his man, we've moved into our new ground and i'm afraid after the bedding in period there can't be many excuses for Pochettino anymore.

I'm super confident we won't see that level of performance again this season though.

In my opinion it's the money huggers that are stopping this from happening. We cannot be compared. We don't have the financial resources especially with our new stadium.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
We keep getting praise for turning games around more than any team but it's because we go 1-0 down more than all the other top6 teams. Last season I was almost always wanting the other team to score first at times because we don't turn up until they do, in games we go 1-0 in we tend to get overconfident and fuck it up. Watford, Wolves springs to mind.

Yeah I know exactly what you mean. I think for all the improvement in our mentality over the last few years we still seem to lack true ruthlessness and suffer from complacency, both in our approach at the start of games and often when we fail to kill teams off.
 

LeParisien

Wrong about everything
Mar 5, 2018
3,212
8,169
A lot of good points being made, especially about us pacing ourselves better in games, but yesterday was a stark reminder of how poor we were yesterday. I actually think the plan was to draw them onto us and then break the press with N'Dombele and Sissoko, but it didn't work for multiple factors.

My main concerns though;

1) It starts from the back with Lloris. He's one of the best shot stoppers in the league, sometimes a bit flaky with his decision making, but for the most part safe. His one glaring weakness is his passing. I'm not talking about how he actually kicks the ball, more his passing choices. There were times yesterday when he continuously went side to side, putting the CB's under increasing pressure when Winks and N'Dombele were good options. His lack of confidence in either himself or his CM's causes a lot of problems and eventually leads to the long ball.

2) Receiving on the turn. If you watch Liverpool and City, they are always able to get the ball to players on the turn who are then able to face forwards and put their opponents on the back foot. We do not. Every one of our players receives passes either whilst facing our goal or backpedalling.

3) Which brings us to positioning. Our shape to pass it out from the back cannot be right if we are struggling to do it throughout pre-season and in the opening two match days. To be fair to the team, there were times in the game where we actually worked it well along the flanks before moving it inside for N'Dombele, but the occassions were rare.

4) Speed of ball. Vertonghen is criminal for this tbh. The passing needs to be crisp yet our CB's and GK play really slow football. The ball travels so slowly that we are already under pressure upon receiving it. Any time/space created through good movement can be negated by this.

5) The press. I honestly don't think it's worth it against City, they are that good at getting past it that all you do is open up the pitch for them. Yesterday it was all mistimed, Lamela and Eriksen were a couple of steps behind Kane so that when he initiated the follow up was just off and City got out whilst cutting out three of our players with ease. I'd want to at least make them commit more men to getting out of their own half.

Now I would expect point five to improve over time, but it's 1-4 that I think we really need to work on. I would expect our attacking play to improve exponentially if these were non-factors.
Coaches in France are ALWAYS talking about taking the ball on the 3/4 (ie so that you can move forward with your first touch). I did not hear that in England so much.

Liverpool and Man City players are always trying to take it on the 3/4 so they can be positive. Too often our players do not - even players like winks who in some ways ie movement to create space, is very well coached. I don’t understand it.
 

Cochise

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
4,762
12,519
Coaches in France are ALWAYS talking about taking the ball on the 3/4 (ie so that you can move forward with your first touch). I did not hear that in England so much.

Liverpool and Man City players are always trying to take it on the 3/4 so they can be positive. Too often our players do not - even players like winks who in some ways ie movement to create space, is very well coached. I don’t understand it.

There was a document I read a few years back which had been written by Inglethorpe and McDermott about using drills to have this ingrained into our youth team players. They drew a lot of inspiration from Xavi and Iniesta IIRC. I worry that this is perhaps an issue more with Poch.
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Sep 2, 2004
9,326
13,915
There's a few comments I'd make about the conclusions being made here.

Pochs tactics against City:
It was clear the way we played against City was not the way we would play against any other team in the league because of City's dominance in ability and style. Poch played 4 CM across middle and tried to stifle City's ability to play through the midfield with the hope that KWP and rose could keep up with their wing attacks and cut backs. It worked to an extent but it also allowed us to make progress centrally when we won the ball back up the pitch on the rare occasion. The game plan was sound except Sissoko and Eriksen were not breaking with enough pace (or space). Yes we were lucky to get the draw but the game plan helped that.

Our lost press:
This is something I've wondered about for a long time and I initially thought it was related to injuries and the lack of consistency in the team as a result but I suspect that it has a lot to do with our missing midfield Maestro, Dembele. The effectiveness of our press has always been linked to an on form and fit Dembele. He gives the platform for Kane, Eriksen and Alli to hunt the ball down because he provided such strength and control in the middle that those ahead of him felt they could vacate their positions without risk that they wouldn't be covered. Specifically this has had a big effect on Eriksen as Dembele used to create so much space for him by drawing players in like a black hole. Eriksen could operate between the lanes with more space than he does now since we tend to play the ball more in front of the opposition.
The another obvious reason is the loss of pace from our fullback areas. Walker and Rose in full form would be closer to our midfield than defence and that created better defensive solidarity when playing the high line almost up on the half way line. The long ball that we'd force through pressure would end up heading towards Rose Walker Dembele and Dier with two more defenders behind. I don't believe we have the players to replicate this way of playing again. KWP may grow into those shoes that KW left behind but Ndombele is not that type of player that can draw opposition in. Yes he can dribble and break past players but it's more of a direct counter attack style rather than Dembeles slow the ball down allow the midfield to empty, ghost past them and give it to Eriksen who can release one of the other 3 at the front.

Natural evolution:
The move to a diamond seems the natural progression. We saw it when Mourinho was trying to evolve his first Chelsea team. No Robben, no Duff, no flying wingers to get ahead of Drogba but a lot of good CMs to crowbar into the team and more defensive fullbacks like Ivanovic and it worked because Lampard would get 20 goals from midfield. Poch moving to a diamond is the same except our attacking midfielder (Alli) hasn't been on form for a while. I hope now with Ndombele and GLC, Alli can go back to the #10 role and act as a second striker with 2 of Eriksen, Son or Lucas either side in a front 4 instead. The problem with our diamond is our holding midfielders (Dier and Wanyama) are also so far from being on form that they become a gaping weakness. So we play Winks there but he likes to get forward and he's not someone comfortable playing as a third CB.
I think we'll see more of the 4231 we used to see or closer to a 4222 with some rotation from the front but the problems will persist because we've not resolved them.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
A lot of good points being made, especially about us pacing ourselves better in games, but yesterday was a stark reminder of how poor we were yesterday. I actually think the plan was to draw them onto us and then break the press with N'Dombele and Sissoko, but it didn't work for multiple factors.

My main concerns though;

1) It starts from the back with Lloris. He's one of the best shot stoppers in the league, sometimes a bit flaky with his decision making, but for the most part safe. His one glaring weakness is his passing. I'm not talking about how he actually kicks the ball, more his passing choices. There were times yesterday when he continuously went side to side, putting the CB's under increasing pressure when Winks and N'Dombele were good options. His lack of confidence in either himself or his CM's causes a lot of problems and eventually leads to the long ball.

2) Receiving on the turn. If you watch Liverpool and City, they are always able to get the ball to players on the turn who are then able to face forwards and put their opponents on the back foot. We do not. Every one of our players receives passes either whilst facing our goal or backpedalling.

3) Which brings us to positioning. Our shape to pass it out from the back cannot be right if we are struggling to do it throughout pre-season and in the opening two match days. To be fair to the team, there were times in the game where we actually worked it well along the flanks before moving it inside for N'Dombele, but the occassions were rare.

4) Speed of ball. Vertonghen is criminal for this tbh. The passing needs to be crisp yet our CB's and GK play really slow football. The ball travels so slowly that we are already under pressure upon receiving it. Any time/space created through good movement can be negated by this.

5) The press. I honestly don't think it's worth it against City, they are that good at getting past it that all you do is open up the pitch for them. Yesterday it was all mistimed, Lamela and Eriksen were a couple of steps behind Kane so that when he initiated the follow up was just off and City got out whilst cutting out three of our players with ease. I'd want to at least make them commit more men to getting out of their own half.

Now I would expect point five to improve over time, but it's 1-4 that I think we really need to work on. I would expect our attacking play to improve exponentially if these were non-factors.
City are that good at because they have been coached to do so they play quick incisive football along with winning the ball back quickly, compare that to the way we slowly build up play and get run ragged our player's look like they are over forty running about.
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
15,974
32,682
In my opinion it's the money huggers that are stopping this from happening. We cannot be compared. We don't have the financial resources especially with our new stadium.
Liverpool finished a point behind them last season. If Eriksen stays we have got the squad to get close to City. But as soon as the European window shuts Pochettino needs to get these players into a cohesive unit and fast. In the meantime we need to grind out results. That means winning our next 2 home games and at least avoiding defeat at Arsenal. Should we do that i'm very confident we can challenge.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Great post and fully agree.
I thought one reason was walker going and rose injury means full backs with no pace so change our style + adapted to CL and also finding a plan B but now I’m just clueless to how poch actually wants us to play or how he plans to set us up with our best XI, it’s not consistent or obvious anymore and if anything it’s beconing a bit of a random mess, our form was quite poor at the end of last season and our performances have been the same so far this season.

I like poch and he’s squeezed a lot out of our team but he’s very hit and miss with tactics and I’m frustrated by how he doesn’t seem to give us a style of play anymore. Sure last season we had a lot of injuries etc but this season we have no excuse and we’ve been pony first 2 games and very lucky to have 4 points.

last week v Villa we was only poor the 1st 70 mins with our finishing. yes we wasn't as dominant as City were yesterday but we missed a lot of chances.

yesterday was a nightmare and we really should of looked at cancelling the high press from them by going longer and much earlier, because all we done was create pressure. when we have a free kick just inside our half especially when behind go long, but no we take it short and back on the back foot. when Moura was brought on occasionally we went long, but forgot to have players up there to win the 2nd ball.

with our high press last season I still put it down to conservation due to injuries, lack of preseason and the amount of fixtures played without enough depth. I also think the change in tactic of the high press is down to playing CL which doesn't allow for rotation like it did with the EL. with a little stronger in depth perhaps we will see it more once we are up to speed, but at the moment we are 2 games in and due to injuries, suspension, and bedding in we don't know what our strongest XI is until Alli is back, Son is back and Lo Celso is ready to go.

at the moment I think we need to be patient. we lost 13 games and only drew 2 last season and we won't lose that many in the league this season I just hope the majority of those turn arounds are not draws
 

Roy's Racers

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
175
305
Coaches in France are ALWAYS talking about taking the ball on the 3/4 (ie so that you can move forward with your first touch). I did not hear that in England so much.

Liverpool and Man City players are always trying to take it on the 3/4 so they can be positive. Too often our players do not - even players like winks who in some ways ie movement to create space, is very well coached. I don’t understand it.
Agreed. Apart from the marauding full-backs, this was one of the main things that we used to do so well a couple of seasons ago. Not only the midfield two of Dembele & Wanyama using their ability to beat the press, but Dele receiving the ball on the half-turn usually in around the centre circle and then playing in the 3rd man runners.

The changes in tactics, were a result of being out flanked by Mourihno's Man Utd in the FA Cup semi-final.
 
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