thebenjamin
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- Jul 1, 2008
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You don't need to look far beyond this list for the root of all our problems.
The Mauricio Pochettino thread
- Thread starter TaoistMonkey
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You don't need to look far beyond this list for the root of all our problems.
Monkey boy
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- Jun 18, 2011
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Er, what??
rossdapep
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- Aug 25, 2011
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Well that's another thing.
Poor recruitment in some cases but we have been very unfortunate with Wanyama.
You can say that Poch was right to not accept other alternatives as some of these were poor buys but I do think we severley limit ourselves when we have no director of football as they help avoid situations like last summer. I do think Poch could relax a little in this respect. He should have the right to demand big players but then you miss out on the 'under the radar' players who can become excellent buys ala Mane, Mahrez etc.
Yeah, I agree they been a bit creative with the facts to give a certain slant to things. But even that list tells a similar story.
Peak Dembele > Sissoko and Winks
Peak Wanyama > Skipp
Walker and Trippier > Aurier and KWP.
Peak Alderweireld and Vertonghen > Foyth and Sanchez or unsettled Alderweireld and Vertonghen
There are few on that list that might be considered undisputed successes. Not that some of them don’t have tremendous potential or are already very good players who have done very well for us. I just don’t think they have made us a better team than we were.
I think around 2016/17 we were on the verge of becoming a title winning team but we have gone a little backwards in the intervening period-since we left old WHL. There are different reasons for that but I think a big one must be the playing squad available to Pochettino. A significant number of our best players have either left, deteriorated through injury or age, or become unsettled and their replacements just haven’t been quite as good.
The exception of Wanyama, and maybe Sanchez, it’s difficult to see how Pochettino has been really ‘backed’ with those players. Not that some of them weren’t his own choices, like Foyth for example, but there was no sense during that period that we identified the areas where we were most weak and spent the money on the top targets to rectify those weaknesses.
The Aurier and Lucas buys seemed a little opportunistic. Sissoko was a Levy buy it seems. Nkodou a bit of a punt. Llorente a reasonably priced short tex fix. Meanwhile we were valuing our own players at far higher prices than we ourselves were willing to pay for their equivalents or replacements. Rightly or wrongly, that surely has made Pochettino’s job more difficult.
wrd
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- Aug 22, 2014
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I know there's been some debate about whether Poch has been backed and whether he also has responsibility for the lack of signings. There's also been a large amount of talk about Liverpool surpassing us after we were so far ahead. Watching Liverpool has reminded me that during that season 2016 summer, we had both Mane and Wijnaldum at the training ground, this isn't hearsay both are on record saying they were in talks with Spurs.
Ultimately it came down to wages so in terms of backing I think it's pretty provable that the board could have pushed the boat out more to get the players Poch wanted based on the evidence of what success those 2 players have been a huge part of for a rival club who were below us in the pecking order at the time.
Ultimately it came down to wages so in terms of backing I think it's pretty provable that the board could have pushed the boat out more to get the players Poch wanted based on the evidence of what success those 2 players have been a huge part of for a rival club who were below us in the pecking order at the time.
Yes I think it’s clear that Liverpool strode ahead of us, partly at least, due to backing Klopp very strongly in the transfer market. Sure there are mitigating circumstances like our new stadium, the Coutinho sale etc, but from a purely footballing perspective this gave Klopp an advantage over Pochettino and I’m sure everyone would agree that they are a much better side than us right now. But that they are better wasn’t in any way inevitable two or three years ago. Part of is a direct consequence of the changing balance and quality of our respective squads.
wrd
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Possibly but the fact we had Champions League football and they didn't makes me feel like we were likely offering well below market value, plus it's not like Liverpool are well known for blowing teams out the water with wages especially back then so I don't think it would be the case that we were offering top wages and then Liverpool were trumping us with eye watering amounts, I only have to look at the salary of players who were extending their contracts during that period to get an idea of the money we were offering players.
wrd
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Indeed there was certainly a few sliding door moments for sure.
rabbikeane
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- Mar 29, 2005
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We weren't willing to pay the cost and wages for Mane,
later the same window we got desperate and paid similar (30m+ fee, 90k wages) for Sissoko.
That's definitely a point where Levy failed.
wrd
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And if you recall Poch basically came and out said we exactly need a Mane type and it was when we were then linked to Zaha which was 3 games into the season and after facing them.
Tottenham 'do not exist' without Mousa Dembele, jokes Mauricio Pochettino
While the Belgian midfielder sits out his suspension, Spurs are still struggling to find their rhythm, and it showed again on Saturday in their 1-1 draw with Liverpool
www.independent.co.uk
“We need a player who is more direct, more aggressive offensively,” Pochettino said. “Because we have players like Eriksen, [Heung-Min] Son or Lamela who like the ball played into their feet. So we need someone who has characteristics like we saw from Liverpool, like Sadio Mané, the type of player that can break the defensive line. I'm not talking about kicking or punching someone, only running and having the right mentality.”
Sissoko was not that player.
It went to shit because of injuries in CM. Winks and Sissoko is just a weak partnership and we constantly give away the midfield with it. Plus they do anything to shield a back line that leaks goals. I like them both but its too weak a partnership. We need a proper DM. Dier needs to be back in the XI.
SUIYHA
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- Jan 15, 2017
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For every story like these there's a Saido Berahino, Leandro Damiao or Michael Ricketts where fans throw a hissy fit because we didn't push the boat out far enough to get them in and then we look back on things and laugh. Ultimately, you make judgement calls on whether they're worth it or not and some you will get right and some you will get wrong.
I'll remind you that Liverpool were in for Sigurdsson and Dempsey before we came in in 2012, then after we'd blown all our budget on those two and Adebayor, Liverpool moved for Coutinho and Sturridge in the January transfer window. It's not just about money, it's about good scouting and also being prepared to sometimes take a gamble on a raw or unproven player.
wrd
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- Aug 22, 2014
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Yeah of course but the players you mention were before Pochs time in terms of the ones we signed, the point I'm making is people are suggesting that Poch has been fully backed and I'm saying there's tangible evidence to show that he wasn't and it's directly benefited a rival. Yes you can say for every good player we missed out on there's a bad player we avoided too but as you said it's down to good scouting, well we did that bit and the board didn't follow through.
dontcallme
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- Mar 18, 2005
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So we were willing to put up the money then.
We don't know at all what happened with regards to individual deals.
Gb160
Well done boys. Good process
- Jun 20, 2012
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Or Liverpool were always willing to go higher?
We don't know the details.
sausage
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If Sissoko isn't the type of player that:
- Doesn't like the ball played to his feet
- Can run into players aggressively
- Has the right mentality
...then no one is.
The mistake people make is thinking that Mane was actually the type of player Klopp/Poch described him as. If anything, he's Liverpool's Son Heung Min.
dontcallme
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- Mar 18, 2005
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Exactly. Our recruitment hasn't been up to standard the last few years. It isn't simply about whether we are willing to put up the cash.
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