lukadownthelane
Well-Known Member
- Jul 17, 2008
- 2,813
- 5,608
When you let them stroll into the box and give them as much time as they need then is it any surprise that they score?
Match Threads Spurs vs Bayern Munich - Match Thread
- Thread starter Bulletspur
- Start date
As much as i love Toby and Verts, they are a step slower. I'd love to see the stats but without a DM in front of them, it seems to me they are brought under pressure more often than in years past. Add to that the lack of the team tracking back consistently as a group and the mistakes made by the outside defenders whether we play 3 or 4 in the back, you get the results that we saw tonight. I had hoped Aurier had turned the corner but this performance shows one of our biggest offseason mistakes was not to bring in a proven right side defender. KWP or JF may turn out to be the real deal, but they aren't ready to play in games of this magnitude in my opinion.
rossdapep
Well-Known Member
- Aug 25, 2011
- 22,227
- 80,054
No excuses for going out there with no dm and a diamond against a rapid and lethal attack.
Imagine if someone like Allegri had approached that game. Oh but it would have been boring though....
worcestersauce
"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
- Jan 23, 2006
- 26,967
- 45,257
I think you have got something thiere, we clearly have started to rebuild and you can't do that seemlessly there is always a consequence.
Our defence is shipping goals this season so maybe we need to bite the bullet and let a few go, I know Aurier will take some flack for their third goal for instance but after their winger got past him he just cruised past three more of our defenders without being challenged before he shot, something's not right.
To be honest I'm not distraught by the score we could have tried to shore it up at 4-2 but we went for goals to save the game and it didn't work work out, that happens especially at this level. It wasn't the last five or ten minutes it was the five or ten minutes around half time that did for us.
gibbospurs
SC Supporter
- Aug 28, 2010
- 4,992
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This.... all day long. It’s like playing with 10 players, and has been for 18 months. Blokes been found out.
Typical Spurs
Well-Known Member
- Feb 10, 2016
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Poch wasn't responsible for that second half in Amsterdam.
Lucas Moura single handedly won us that game. End of.
He then gets dropped for the final. An absolute ridiculous management decision.
ljinko888
Well-Known Member
- May 17, 2016
- 2,089
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Doesn't that betray what that xG figure represents then?
Lewandowski is genuinely world class and showed that he’s on a different level to Kane at the moment. Harry Winks should only be used in The FA cup as he’s nowhere near good enough to be in the team, he makes stupid mistakes in every single game and has no control of the ball at any time, when he runs with the ball he looks like a puppy running across a wet wooden floor.
fecka
Well-Known Member
- Jun 24, 2013
- 2,338
- 6,446
Not to be a debbie downer but haven't we already been rebuilding for 6 years now? When are we going to challenge?
mike_l
Well-Known Member
- Jul 29, 2005
- 5,171
- 3,676
Couple more months riding the pine should sort that right out...
Great revisionism there, Eriksen, Alderweireld and Vertonghen have always bbeen shite too.
We’ve often laughed at how poor our opponents’ defences are.
If there’s one thing that Bayern has exposed today, it’s that our defence need major upgrading.
We need younger and quicker CBs. We need younger, quicker and more intelligent FBs.
If there’s one thing that Bayern has exposed today, it’s that our defence need major upgrading.
We need younger and quicker CBs. We need younger, quicker and more intelligent FBs.
Fidget
Well-Known Member
- Jun 22, 2014
- 1,079
- 1,267
I blame Poch. He’s our manager.
I blame Levy. He’s the boss.
I blame Alli. What’s happened?
I blame Erikson. Give the best to the club you are with.
I blame our new stadium. Obvs.
We have probably got to change Poch for someone else. Because the rot is here and it’s mouldy.
Levy will stay but he must learn you cannot fail to add new blood to your team each season, or long term you will be fucked. He must learn that you have to sell those players who don’t care for the club anymore, whatever the price is that they will be taken at.
Alli don’t get me started. I don’t have any idea wtaf has happened. I mean does he play this way in training?
Erikson. Why is he still here? I mean an actual reason.
New manager is a must. Soon.
Who would that be then? Well, how the hell do any of us know? You’d need to know where we need fixing and who could do that. Too many secrets in the background of our lovely club at the moment. Not starting to put things right is not an option.
VancouverSpur
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- Aug 26, 2010
- 1,387
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I have mentioned it a few times in various threads but I really think Poch is self-sabotaging. Whether its consciously or sub-consciously I am not sure but it keeps happening game after game. The decision tonight to start Dele who's form has fallen off a cliff over Lamela was baffling. To not play a proper DM who sits in and protects the back four vs a team like Bayern was equally astonishing.
However the most telling part was when we started to collapse and he looked paralyzed and incapable of making any sort of tactical change to at least stop us getting completely obliterated. Deer in headlights is being kind.
Some of the players heads have gone and when those players are your back 4 then you are basically fucked. The thing that gets me is again and again we can all see it yet Poch either chooses not to or is blind to it.
Lose on Sunday and he is gone.
However the most telling part was when we started to collapse and he looked paralyzed and incapable of making any sort of tactical change to at least stop us getting completely obliterated. Deer in headlights is being kind.
Some of the players heads have gone and when those players are your back 4 then you are basically fucked. The thing that gets me is again and again we can all see it yet Poch either chooses not to or is blind to it.
Lose on Sunday and he is gone.
dagraham
Well-Known Member
- Sep 20, 2005
- 19,146
- 46,140
Well that was fun and the first time I’ve left a Spurs match before the end since Chelsea beat us 6-1 at home many years ago..... still, at least I got to stay and see an ex gooner score his fourth and Bayern’s 7th goal before I did 
.
Probably just repeating a lot of what’s already been said, but you can have all the intensity, togetherness, aggression you want, but if a team is going to be consistently as wide open as we are week to week then you are going to be punished. And boy were we punished tonight.
Thing is, despite playing some good attacking football in the first 25 mins, they still got behind us at will, with acres of space and time to take shots and put crosses in.
The warnings were there and at half time we could and should have changed things while we were still in the game, but we kept on with the same thing.
Fucking embarrassing 2nd half.
.Probably just repeating a lot of what’s already been said, but you can have all the intensity, togetherness, aggression you want, but if a team is going to be consistently as wide open as we are week to week then you are going to be punished. And boy were we punished tonight.
Thing is, despite playing some good attacking football in the first 25 mins, they still got behind us at will, with acres of space and time to take shots and put crosses in.
The warnings were there and at half time we could and should have changed things while we were still in the game, but we kept on with the same thing.
Fucking embarrassing 2nd half.
DEFchenkOE
Well-Known Member
- Feb 13, 2006
- 10,527
- 8,052
True, but maybe easier with one player as opposed to about 5. Don't know why I'm trying to defend Poch though, his tactics and the way he has been setting us up has been annoying me no end lately.
C0YS
Just another member
- Jul 9, 2007
- 12,780
- 13,817
What a bizarre match. I'm not even disappointed I'm laughing. What a terrible second half.
The first half was ok. We played some very good football for about half an hour. We should have made more of our chances. However, even then, we were too exposed.
The second half was pretty terrible. If the game ended 4-2, ok, not good but there would be a lot to build on. Our loss was not out of a lack of will. Most of the players worked pretty hard. The problem really comes down to two things.
Firstly, our defense is incredibly exposed. The vast majority of the goals we conceded were completely preventable by simply having a competent holding midfielder who would plug in the gaps. In fact make that a semi-competent holding midfielder. Winks, a wonderful player, is not that. He gets moved around all over the place and doesn't effectively block channels and mark the space between the lines. Furthermore a diamond system stretches the midfield. Space pops up in the middle as other midfielders try and cover the flanks. A good diamond requires a specialist, whose only job is to maintain some kind of shape and plug in the gaps. We don't do that. It's not a bad formation, it allows a lot of flexibility going forward, and in the first half the interchange between Dele, Son and Kane was very good. But you need balance. We don't have balance. You can sometimes play Winks and Sissoko in a five man midfield, accepting its weaknesses in exchange for its benefits. However, in a diamond their weaknesses are amplified and we lose too much.
Secondly, when 4-2 down, we were in the game but not in control. By replacing winks with Lamela we completely sacrificed any kind of structure from which both to attack and to defend. This move might be good in a game that we are dominating. We were not dominating. Even though Winks isn't really a holding midfielder, a position I feel limits him as well as the team, he does provide some kind of structure in a midfield, something Sissoko does not. Without him, there was nothing. We basically didn't have a midfield, we had no way forward. But, more tellingly nothing to support the defense, This is the kind of move you make on football manager when you are incredibly frustrated. Not in some CL game. It turned a frustrating defeat against a very good side, into a complete disaster.
It wasn't just the midfield that cost us. I feel I need to speak about Aurier. He had an incredibly poor game, particularly his complete lack of any kind of attempt to block the run of Gnabry for the 5th goal, at least Trippier tried while Aurier literally jogged back without any sense of how they could stop the danger emerging. The thing I find about Aurier is I think he plays for himself not the team. He gets sent off easily because he wants to make 'that tackle', not thinking about what the consequences are if he gets it wrong. Similarly, he normally tries to go for the tackle when he should just be trying to block or delay the player in question. On the 5th goal he doesn't see why his lack of action is bad because he doesn't seem to care enough about the consequences. He is a talented player, but he can be a complete liability. For me today was make or break for him, but he isn't reliable enough, or responsible enough even, for us. I don't see how he can come back from this.
Lastly, today made our weaknesses crystal clear. Not in terms of mentality but in terms of how we are set up. There is no excuse now. We need to find a more structured approach. For me it's about putting Dier in the centre of a three man midfield. But there are other solutions. We still can fulfill our realistic ambitions this season, but it's no longer time to try and reinvent the wheel, but go back to something more established.
The first half was ok. We played some very good football for about half an hour. We should have made more of our chances. However, even then, we were too exposed.
The second half was pretty terrible. If the game ended 4-2, ok, not good but there would be a lot to build on. Our loss was not out of a lack of will. Most of the players worked pretty hard. The problem really comes down to two things.
Firstly, our defense is incredibly exposed. The vast majority of the goals we conceded were completely preventable by simply having a competent holding midfielder who would plug in the gaps. In fact make that a semi-competent holding midfielder. Winks, a wonderful player, is not that. He gets moved around all over the place and doesn't effectively block channels and mark the space between the lines. Furthermore a diamond system stretches the midfield. Space pops up in the middle as other midfielders try and cover the flanks. A good diamond requires a specialist, whose only job is to maintain some kind of shape and plug in the gaps. We don't do that. It's not a bad formation, it allows a lot of flexibility going forward, and in the first half the interchange between Dele, Son and Kane was very good. But you need balance. We don't have balance. You can sometimes play Winks and Sissoko in a five man midfield, accepting its weaknesses in exchange for its benefits. However, in a diamond their weaknesses are amplified and we lose too much.
Secondly, when 4-2 down, we were in the game but not in control. By replacing winks with Lamela we completely sacrificed any kind of structure from which both to attack and to defend. This move might be good in a game that we are dominating. We were not dominating. Even though Winks isn't really a holding midfielder, a position I feel limits him as well as the team, he does provide some kind of structure in a midfield, something Sissoko does not. Without him, there was nothing. We basically didn't have a midfield, we had no way forward. But, more tellingly nothing to support the defense, This is the kind of move you make on football manager when you are incredibly frustrated. Not in some CL game. It turned a frustrating defeat against a very good side, into a complete disaster.
It wasn't just the midfield that cost us. I feel I need to speak about Aurier. He had an incredibly poor game, particularly his complete lack of any kind of attempt to block the run of Gnabry for the 5th goal, at least Trippier tried while Aurier literally jogged back without any sense of how they could stop the danger emerging. The thing I find about Aurier is I think he plays for himself not the team. He gets sent off easily because he wants to make 'that tackle', not thinking about what the consequences are if he gets it wrong. Similarly, he normally tries to go for the tackle when he should just be trying to block or delay the player in question. On the 5th goal he doesn't see why his lack of action is bad because he doesn't seem to care enough about the consequences. He is a talented player, but he can be a complete liability. For me today was make or break for him, but he isn't reliable enough, or responsible enough even, for us. I don't see how he can come back from this.
Lastly, today made our weaknesses crystal clear. Not in terms of mentality but in terms of how we are set up. There is no excuse now. We need to find a more structured approach. For me it's about putting Dier in the centre of a three man midfield. But there are other solutions. We still can fulfill our realistic ambitions this season, but it's no longer time to try and reinvent the wheel, but go back to something more established.
Haha *facepalm*
I'm with you on not being distraught. From a numbers standpoint, we could still easily get out of the group stage since we are fighting for 2nd, but the performances have to change radically. I'm a #Pochin person at the moment because if he can learn the lessons he needs to learn tactically and strategically, he could make that leap in coaching that would put him on the next and final level. I just hope his shiny new toys can get on the field sooner rather than later as we need some fresh faces on the team fighting for the badge.
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