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Premier League officially postponed until 17th of June

Stavrogin

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2004
2,361
1,475
So the cheif medical advisor at Fifa is advising no football should be played until September.. And you're saying it can be done completely safely...do me a favour.

And that's before we enter the realms of integrity being smashed for six.

Don't be daft. His entire objection is about contact, which is what they are trying to overcome with enlarged isopods. Maybe they don't feel confident in pulling it off, nevertheless they are entitled to pursue it.

Again, they are not going to do it if it is unsafe, so why the objection? What integrity? You don't make sense.

Kebab shops are open. Bankers are going to work via public transport. etc. etc. These activities present far greater risks to the vulnerable and delay the flattening of the curve, so why is something that will be (presumably) controlled to insanse degree, stirring such animosity?
 

SpunkyBackpack

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2005
7,831
9,372
If they can do it safely and responsibly (and communicate that they have properly) in very limited location etc there wont be any major backlash like people are predicting. There will be some who will fly off the handle regardless but in the right circumstances people will welcome it as a sign that things are returning to normal and that we are closer to the end of all this than the beginning. People are starting to get restless and need a light at the end of the tunnel to focus on.

That is a a hugely massive IF though, anything less than that there will indeed be massive backlash, if they want to get football back (which of course they do, its their job, of course they'll try everything) then they have to thread that needle and communicate it perfectly.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,777
99,341
Don't be daft. His entire objection is about contact, which is what they are trying to overcome with enlarged isopods. Maybe they don't feel confident in pulling it off, nevertheless they are entitled to pursue it.

Again, they are not going to do it if it is unsafe, so why the objection? What integrity? You don't make sense.

Kebab shops are open. Bankers are going to work via public transport. etc. etc. These activities present far greater risks to the vulnerable and delay the flattening of the curve, so why is something that will be (presumably) controlled to insanse degree, stirring such animosity?

It's not viable, come on ffs lol.
 

wayneg

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2020
461
1,952
Kebab shops are open. Bankers are going to work via public transport. etc. etc. These activities present far greater risks to the vulnerable and delay the flattening of the curve, so why is something that will be (presumably) controlled to insanse degree, stirring such animosity?

I believe there are other factors rather than just the safety of players - I do believe they can carry it out 'safely' in a controlled enviornment if players / backroom staff were rigourosly tested and isolated in their teams.

The reasons why it causes animosity is why should these clubs be given tests (even privately paid for) if their is a shortage for NHS/Care Homes etc. Also add to that if even if matches were on TV, people would still congregate outside grounds, at peoples houses to watch them, if the season starts back it is envitable that Liverpool will win the league, teams avoiding relegation are you saying fans are going to celebrate this in the comfort of their own house whilst self isolating? Also Kebab shops are not forced to open, they can close, banks are an ESSENTIAL business whereas the Premier League is not - so why should players risk it not only for themselves but other family members they may have such as pregnant wives/girfrineds etc.
 

Wsussexspur

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2007
8,918
10,176
As Ive said before all this talk is focusing on the Premier league restarting and playing in limited venues or maybe just at Georges Park (which I personally think is rather unlikely). But what about the remaining Championship, League One and potentially League Two games? Where are they going to be played? As surely if the Premiership gets the green light to resume certainly the Championship and League One will want to resume.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
As Ive said before all this talk is focusing on the Premier league restarting and playing in limited venues or maybe just at Georges Park (which I personally think is rather unlikely). But what about the remaining Championship, League One and potentially League Two games? Where are they going to be played? As surely if the Premiership gets the green light to resume certainly the Championship and League One will want to resume.

Yep. You cant start one league without the others. It's just another nail in the coffin for beginning games again.
 

NickHSpurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2004
13,626
11,875
To some degree yes, it's the safest idea. I know the NBA have talked about something like that for them. Issue is still though if someone there catches the virus. That'll fuck up the whole thing cause then everyone will have to self isolate which almost makes bringing it back in the first place pointless.

There's then the practical issues like the mental health of the players, 6 weeks in one complex (likely without their friends or family) will be insanely taxing on them and one many may not want to do. Then of course the physical issues of if anyone gets injured and how much pressure that'll put on our already taxed NHS.

I get that money talks and people want the season to continue and BCD is likely the best way to go, especially in one neutral location, but the reality of it still doesn't sound like it'll work/ be worth it/ we'll be ready for it.

Doing it in one location is the safest option if they do it.... but a safer option is just not doing it at all and working on getting a full 2020/21 season as fifa are starting to say we should plan for.

The being away from family thing isn't too much drama, most of the PL players would have been heading off to the Euros anyway so wouldn't have been seeing much of their families regardless.

Injuries shouldn't put any pressure on the NHS at all really, the concern is the virus being caught and spreading during any camp. However, there are ways to limit the chance of that happening greatly. If all staff, officials, broadcasters and players are tested, cleared and isolated in this camp a couple of weeks before coming into contact with each other then that should remove almost all risk. Once this camp starts they shouldn't come into contact with anyone outside it.

If the entire camp is tested, virus free and healthy before it begins, they should be safe providing they are strict about not coming into contact with anyone outside of it. It is doable.

I know it's a simplistic view but if you test everyone, ensure they're all negative and put them together two weeks later after another test the risk would be almost completely removed if there's no outside contact.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
As Ive said before all this talk is focusing on the Premier league restarting and playing in limited venues or maybe just at Georges Park (which I personally think is rather unlikely). But what about the remaining Championship, League One and potentially League Two games? Where are they going to be played? As surely if the Premiership gets the green light to resume certainly the Championship and League One will want to resume.

Not necessarily, the further you go down the leagues, the less dependant to TV money they are.
Could easily be the case that the Premier League and possibly the Championship will restart and Leagues 1 and 2 don't (similar to Germany where the plan is only top 2 leagues are restarting). Further down it may well be beneficial for the clubs from a financial point of view to not finish season, with the cost of players coming out of contract at end of June outweighing the incremental portion of TV income they would get.
It is already a gimme that no team will be relegated from League 2, with just 1 put up from National League (to replace Bury) unless other teams fold in the meantime, and League would then decide on promotions/relegations between the divisions.
 

Yid-ol

Just-outside Edinburgh
Jan 16, 2006
31,098
19,278
Not necessarily, the further you go down the leagues, the less dependant to TV money they are.
Could easily be the case that the Premier League and possibly the Championship will restart and Leagues 1 and 2 don't (similar to Germany where the plan is only top 2 leagues are restarting). Further down it may well be beneficial for the clubs from a financial point of view to not finish season, with the cost of players coming out of contract at end of June outweighing the incremental portion of TV income they would get.
It is already a gimme that no team will be relegated from League 2, with just 1 put up from National League (to replace Bury) unless other teams fold in the meantime, and League would then decide on promotions/relegations between the divisions.

But the club's less likely to depend on TV money will depend on gate sales a hell of a lot. Without the games for them and income they won't be getting enough in to keep the club's going for months.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
But the club's less likely to depend on TV money will depend on gate sales a hell of a lot. Without the games for them and income they won't be getting enough in to keep the club's going for months.

You can forget gate sales for quite a while, crowds won't be in attendance for quite a few months yet.
Discussion was about finishing this season, and how can Championship, L1 and L2 be treated different from the PL, however there is no real incentive from a financial point of view really for the lower of the professional leagues to do that and could easily be treated different.
 

Yid-ol

Just-outside Edinburgh
Jan 16, 2006
31,098
19,278
You can forget gate sales for quite a while, crowds won't be in attendance for quite a few months yet.
Discussion was about finishing this season, and how can Championship, L1 and L2 be treated different from the PL, however there is no real incentive from a financial point of view really for the lower of the professional leagues to do that and could easily be treated different.

But you said

the further you go down the leagues, the less dependant to TV money they are.

And I was making the point that you are correct the lower you go down the less they get TV money and live off it, but to counter that they live of gate sales for games. If these games don't happen the club's will have no money to pay wages/bills and fold.

We should be looking to protect club's all the way down the leagues to make sure they survive as well as the cash cow that is the PL. No point in the English leagues if there are only 2 or so divisions.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
But you said



And I was making the point that you are correct the lower you go down the less they get TV money and live off it, but to counter that they live of gate sales for games. If these games don't happen the club's will have no money to pay wages/bills and fold.

We should be looking to protect club's all the way down the leagues to make sure they survive as well as the cash cow that is the PL. No point in the English leagues if there are only 2 or so divisions.

But if the games do happen they will have no more money anyway, and will have had to increase their costs by extending expiring player contracts beyond 30th June. The League 1 and 2 clubs have already received all the money they will get for the season (they have received full payout for their portion of the TV money as if games were completed). The only thing that might be possible would be for them to somehow individually sell their remaining live games.
 
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Yid-ol

Just-outside Edinburgh
Jan 16, 2006
31,098
19,278
But if the games do happen they will have no more money anyway, and will have had to increase their costs by extending expiring player contracts beyond 30th June. The League 1 and 2 clubs have already received all the money they will get for the season (they have received full payout for their portion of the TV money). The only thing that might be possible would be for them to somehow individually sell their remaining live games.

Which is why they are screwed no matter what happens. No gate reception and no TV money.

Somehow they are going to need to get money flowing through the lower leagues by some means.
 

Wsussexspur

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2007
8,918
10,176
Not necessarily, the further you go down the leagues, the less dependant to TV money they are.
Could easily be the case that the Premier League and possibly the Championship will restart and Leagues 1 and 2 don't (similar to Germany where the plan is only top 2 leagues are restarting). Further down it may well be beneficial for the clubs from a financial point of view to not finish season, with the cost of players coming out of contract at end of June outweighing the incremental portion of TV income they would get.
It is already a gimme that no team will be relegated from League 2, with just 1 put up from National League (to replace Bury) unless other teams fold in the meantime, and League would then decide on promotions/relegations between the divisions.


I wouldn't be too surprised if League two and quite possible League one are voided.

But still leaves the case with the Championship where do they play their remaining games?

Also then the other issues such as even more testing to be done even more key public services to be taken away to be at the matches etc.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
and again as its over 20,000 words in total.

In many dressing rooms, there is, above all, faith that the club’s medical professionals will take the right decision to protect participants. As workforces go, there is quiet confidence that footballers should be safer than most, as the vast majority who have suffered gravely from coronavirus have been elderly or experienced underlying health conditions. The direct risk to players, therefore, is considered to be low.
Yet there have been exceptions and alarm bells are ringing for some. On Tuesday, one agent in Spain, for example, sent one of our writers a link to a Washington Post article that reported alleged links between coronavirus diagnoses and strokes among younger people in their 30s and 40s. The agent wanted to know whether football could truly say it is not imposing added risk on his client. On Wednesday, research by Italian immunologists based in Berlin, Rome and Vienna suggested that in the course of strenuous exercise, athletes are more likely to inhale virus particles and direct them to the lower parts of the lung. Jonas Baer-Hoffman, the secretary general of the global players’ union FIFPro warned that “very high protection standards are required” for football to return. It is true, also, that clubs must factor in backroom staff and in-house employees when assessing risk factors.
In the Premier League, virtual meetings are now taking place between the 20 club doctors in the top-flight. However, it is believed there have been disagreements over forming a consensus for health guidelines on training. Clubs will be irked by any suggestion that the integrity of their medical experts may be compromised and everyone within the game and the government insists all decisions will be aligned with advice from Public Health England. Yet several senior figures within clubs have spoken to The Athletic over their unease that doctors — employed by the clubs — may feel pressurised by their paymasters as executives may be financially aided by the season being played on, or indeed being cancelled.
“It’s so dangerous,” says one training ground source at a Premier League club. “What’s changed in five weeks? It wasn’t safe to train then so why now? There’s no cure, no vaccine. If one person gets it and dies we will be on the wrong side of history. It’s going to take someone to die for people to realise.”
Mark Leather, a former physio at Liverpool, is aware of the pressures clubs can place on medical staff to speed up a player’s return from injury. Yet in this case, he is confident clubs will act responsibly. He says: “Everyone is acutely aware of how bad it is. There is no magic cure for it. But I think that the issues of a player being frightened or reluctant, that’s like anything. If you’ve had a difficult plane journey and that causes a fear of flying, that is an issue. You can’t force a person. Think of Dennis Bergkamp. So I think clubs will be respectful of somebody who says I don’t really want to play at this moment. It is not a sign of weakness, it’s just everybody is different.
“I honestly think if you tested everybody at the club and anybody positive is isolated, the rest I don’t think will be too concerned, if there’s proof, documents, test results, ratified by independent people. It’s safe. I do not think there will be many who have an issue with that. Players are very informed about health now, much more than they were in the bad old days. They search information themselves. They will trust the club. It is not in the club’s interest to put a game on and risk a PR disaster and a public health issue.”
A current Premier League player, still to be informed of any clear schedule by his club, says: “We’re still waiting for news on when we’ll be called back in — we’ve not heard much, to be honest — but we’re all assuming that, if we are to train together ‘as normal’, we’ll be getting tested regularly to ensure as much as we can that the virus doesn’t suddenly spike down at the training ground. I know people are saying it takes a while to get test results, though, so quite how that will work I’m not sure. What happens if one player falls ill? Does that mean we all have to go back into isolation for a fortnight to stop any spread? That would put us back to square one again, wouldn’t it?
“I suppose the only way to look at it at the moment is we will be guided by the medics and the authorities as to whether any of this is possible, and then make a judgement call on it all. We’re all talking to each other, the players, so it is bound to be discussed. Am I comfortable with the thought of going back in to train? Only if the club doctor and medical staff feel it is safe. You have to go with the experts and, if they have confidence in the testing procedures, I would trust them. But, realistically, I can’t see it happening any time soon. As in training ‘normally’.”
Above all, the consensus appears to be that players would like greater clarity and communication. Throughout this process, players have been frustrated by the approach taken by their overlords. An “us” and “them” mentality has evolved, particularly with the dreadfully-received Premier League suggestion that top-flight players should consider a thirty per cent pay cut across the board. The seeds of distrust were sown at several clubs and not every player is inclined to go out on a financial or physical limb to protect the economic security of those owners and executives they feel have been unsupportive since the pandemic emerged.
Several players have complained that they are still to receive any information at all from Premier League clubs on a possible return to training. One is so convinced the nationwide lockdown will be extended so he says he isn’t even thinking about football.
Yet developments are anticipated in the coming days. One Premier League club was told on Tuesday that it should report to training on Monday, May 18, with a view to resuming action on June 4 and ending the campaign by August 2. Time is now of the essence as players who have returned abroad to spend time with family must return this week in order to self-isolate for fourteen days before training. This plan will be debated on Friday.
A Premier League player concludes: “The past couple of weeks has been the worst time because we’re waiting for news, we’re in limbo. You just want a plan. Even if that’s them turning around and saying everything is cancelled until September. But we’re getting nothing. Money will override everything. You’re talking about a league where Huddersfield made more than PSG last season. The one thing we all want is fans. It just won’t be the same, but that’s another compromise we’re going to have to make.”

Brilliant brilliant read, really fascinating stuff - when you break it down like this you actually realise how far we are away from a return to football.
 
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