ENIC...

C0YS · Jul 11, 2020

danielneeds said:
Buying Newcastle for £300m and spending £500m on the squad would still br much, much cheaper than buying us.

Yeh, but you can't really do that anymore. Because investment needs to be somehow chained to profits. Some people think ffp is a joke, but actually if you look how clubs are run now days you realise it isn't. Clubs which have invested more than their profits, have been punished. Now some would say just take the hit early doors and then build up, but it's not like it was. If you are rich you can spend on infrastructure and you can invest up to the limits in the squad, but you can't do a chelsea anymore, not in the same way.

Right now, we have room to grow and we have the ability to invest deeply in a squad. This is somewhat attractive, but the reality is we are more likely to be bought, by someone like the galziers, who use the club for it's yearly profits, or, like lots of other clubs, to try and use it to gain political capital and recognition so people can ignore how dodgy you actually are.

Now I am in the camp of 'better the devil you know', ENIC is not perfect but at least we are not going to do a Milan, or even a Newcastle for that matter. I'm not scared about a Newcastle deal, very few rich investors have got much out of clubs since FFP.

AberdeenYid · Jul 11, 2020

danielneeds said:
Buying Newcastle for £300m and spending £500m on the squad would still br much, much cheaper than buying us.

It would be. But spending £500m on that clown car of a squad would mean they’d finish tenth. Including signing fees, transfers, agent fees, etc, that’s maybe five or six players that could get into a top four team. And how long would they need to spread that £500m over?

We are barely hanging on to a top four place and we are only a couple of players short. The geordies need 15 players to compete.

LeParisien · Jul 11, 2020

JCRD said:
More profit maybe - but less more attractive to buy because there is less growth to achieve... Im not an investor but if there is not much room to grow then an investor wouldnt buy the club.

Im sure someone will perhaps call me stupid (and youre a **** whoever it is ) but why would Levy and Enic want us to be successful? They want the infrastructure to be successful and maybe a cup thats about it...

Wow. The state of some fans right now. Levy is strategically trying to limit our success in order to maximize profit. Fml. Cool.

sausage · Jul 11, 2020

AberdeenYid said:
It would be. But spending £500m on that clown car of a squad would mean they’d finish tenth. Including signing fees, transfers, agent fees, etc, that’s maybe five or six players that could get into a top four team. And how long would they need to spread that £500m over?

We are barely hanging on to a top four place and we are only a couple of players short. The geordies need 15 players to compete.

Indeed - even with less competition it took City a good 5-8 years to be competitive.

Every season a team pumps a load of money into their squad, all rival fans (not teams) worry, and said team ends up screwed. Everton were the most recent.

There's loads of inherent problems with getting a mid-table team to be a Europe-playing team (never mind PL challenging), so I agree it's cheaper to just do it with a team that are already in that ball-park.

danielneeds · Jul 11, 2020

AberdeenYid said:
It would be. But spending £500m on that clown car of a squad would mean they’d finish tenth. Including signing fees, transfers, agent fees, etc, that’s maybe five or six players that could get into a top four team. And how long would they need to spread that £500m over?

We are barely hanging on to a top four place and we are only a couple of players short. The geordies need 15 players to compete.

Nah, if you put Poch in there and appoint a canny DOF you could be competitive for much less, IMO.

AberdeenYid · Jul 11, 2020

sausage said:
Indeed - even with less competition it took City a good 5-8 years to be competitive.

Every season a team pumps a load of money into their squad, all rival fans (not teams) worry, and said team ends up screwed. Everton were the most recent.

There's loads of inherent problems with getting a mid-table team to be a Europe-playing team (never mind PL challenging), so I agree it's cheaper to just do it with a team that are already in that ball-park.

Also remember Villa spent £140m this season on transfers alone. Probably near that on agent costs and signing fees and another £20m on wages for those players. That’s circa £350m - £400m. And they are going down faster than an Aberdeen hooker when lockdown finishes.

AberdeenYid · Jul 11, 2020

danielneeds said:
Nah, if you put Poch in there and appoint a canny DOF you could be competitive for much less, IMO.

That’s already thirty million gone then on their wages alone. And another wedge on shite French wingers and fat Dutch strikers. Maybe avoided with your aforementioned DOF though.

JCRD · Jul 11, 2020

LeParisien said:
Wow. The state of some fans right now. Levy is strategically trying to limit our success in order to maximize profit. Fml. Cool.

That would make sense if I wasn't a fan of levy... But I see his faults.

Also yes it's called strategy... You buy something to sell it later... You don't just go full throttle. I may well be incorrect and that's fine... No one fucking knows... But for an investment company to maximise growth of an asset... It can become unsellable...

You're arguing as if im talking about Levy, but in essence I'm talking about Enic. Who are an investment company.

Metalhead · Jul 11, 2020

JCRD said:
Exactly and you hear Man Utd fans complaining constantly about the Glaziers and them not spending much. Although they clearly have but thats more to do with them being a commercial powerhouse in football...

I thought that their main gripe was Edward Woodward controlling who comes in and comes out although I may be wrong on that. They are in another league with sponsorship deals and worldwide merchandise sales though.

JCRD · Jul 11, 2020

Metalhead said:
I thought that their main gripe was Edward Woodward controlling who comes in and comes out although I may be wrong on that. They are in another league with sponsorship deals and worldwide merchandise sales though.

Well that's kinda linked I think... Because Woodward is Levy lite... Very commercial orientated and in control of transfers... But before they had football men... Im sure someone will correct me... But yeah they can spend because they're just fucking huge

kendoddsdadsdogsdead · Jul 11, 2020

JCRD said:
That would make sense if I wasn't a fan of levy... But I see his faults.

Also yes it's called strategy... You buy something to sell it later... You don't just go full throttle. I may well be incorrect and that's fine... No one fucking knows... But for an investment company to maximise growth of an asset... It can become unsellable...

You're arguing as if im talking about Levy, but in essence I'm talking about Enic. Who are an investment company.

I think your take is very plausible and one I happen to side with as well mate. As an investment company they are going to want to have a carrot to dangle, be it financial growth or appealing to someones ego to be able to bring real success.

people get way to protective over levy. Personally I find it weird, some people seem bigger supporters of him, than the team.

arunspurs · Jul 11, 2020

My Take on ENIC & Levy :

ENIC are not the worst owners in PL or in football league. But its undeniable fact that footballing wise their record with Spurs is pathetic.
I cannot see any scenario where ENIC/Levy are going to sell, especially when we are on a downward trend. Investors/Promoter never sell off on a downturn, unless its existential crisis.

So, I dont expect ENIC & Levy to sell and go anytime soon. So, to me its pointless to protest 'ENIC OUT' at this stage.

Having said that, what we should protest is, to get Levy out of making football and transfer decisions. He is unfit to make that choice and negotiations. Protest should be for getting a DoF and Levy to commit to not come anywhere near footballing decisions.

sausage · Jul 11, 2020

AberdeenYid said:
Also remember Villa spent £140m this season on transfers alone. Probably near that on agent costs and signing fees and another £20m on wages for those players. That’s circa £350m - £400m. And they are going down faster than an Aberdeen hooker when lockdown finishes.

Remember QPR a few seasons back. "We'll just pay top 6 players CL wages, they'll come and we'll be top 6. It can't possibly fail!".

LeParisien · Jul 11, 2020

JCRD said:
That would make sense if I wasn't a fan of levy... But I see his faults.

Also yes it's called strategy... You buy something to sell it later... You don't just go full throttle. I may well be incorrect and that's fine... No one fucking knows... But for an investment company to maximise growth of an asset... It can become unsellable...

You're arguing as if im talking about Levy, but in essence I'm talking about Enic. Who are an investment company.

Levy must be pretty upset that he’s inadvertently brought sustained improvement to the first team over two decades. Damn. Imagine if he was trying!

dontcallme · Jul 11, 2020

arunspurs said:
My Take on ENIC & Levy :

ENIC are not the worst owners in PL or in football league. But its undeniable fact that footballing wise their record with Spurs is pathetic.
I cannot see any scenario where ENIC/Levy are going to sell, especially when we are on a downward trend. Investors/Promoter never sell off on a downturn, unless its existential crisis.

So, I dont expect ENIC & Levy to sell and go anytime soon. So, to me its pointless to protest 'ENIC OUT' at this stage.

Having said that, what we should protest is, to get Levy out of making football and transfer decisions. He is unfit to make that choice and negotiations. Protest should be for getting a DoF and Levy to commit to not come anywhere near footballing decisions.

I wouldn't go as far as to call it pathetic. We've had numerous seasons in the CL and attracted players of a much higher quality than we could get previously.

inclineyid · Jul 11, 2020

I'm genuinely intrigued as to ENIC's exit strategy regarding their investment in THFC... I'm beginning to fear the club may be seen by JL and DL in terms of a multi generational investment (not uncommon at this level of investor)... Levy may not have an exit strategy per sé, beyond the club remaining in say his sons hands in another 30 or 40 years time.

I wouldn't compare myself to ENIC, however I have no intention of selling my investments (unless circumstances force me to). I'm happy for them to generate me income while I'm alive but I'd happily pass them on to my children rather than 'cash in' which everyone seems to expect ENIC to do as they're an investment company. That may well not be the case.

AberdeenYid · Jul 11, 2020

dontcallme said:
I wouldn't go as far as to call it pathetic. We've had numerous seasons in the CL and attracted players of a much higher quality than we could get previously.

If we base their record purely on trophies, it is pathetic. I don’t believe we should, but can see that perspective easily.

dontcallme · Jul 11, 2020

AberdeenYid said:
If we base their record purely on trophies, it is pathetic. I don’t believe we should, but can see that perspective easily.

Yes but no adult should be so one dimensional in their thoughts.

League position and consistency is a factor when judging football levels.

C0YS · Jul 12, 2020

danielneeds said:
Nah, if you put Poch in there and appoint a canny DOF you could be competitive for much less, IMO.

I don't think Poch would work with a DOF, or not without a lot of restrictions on the DOF's power. Particularly to go to Newcastle.

Poch is a great manager, I'm not sure he is a miracle worker. OK he took us from a team that had finished 6th the season before after many seasons finishing in the top 5, and made us one of the best teams in the league. Newcastle have finished 13th, 10th and currently sit at 13th. There is a lot of work to do!

JCRD · Jul 12, 2020

kendoddsdadsdogsdead said:
I think your take is very plausible and one I happen to side with as well mate. As an investment company they are going to want to have a carrot to dangle, be it financial growth or appealing to someones ego to be able to bring real success.

people get way to protective over levy. Personally I find it weird, some people seem bigger supporters of him, than the team.

Totally agree... im not criticisng Levy although angry we havent invested at critical moments which were when Harry was here in that January window and in our self imposed transfer ban.

Levy has been pretty great overall but to get us to that next level - not for me...

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