Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

Dirtysanchez6 · Aug 8, 2020

My main concern is our scouts! Yes he has all the talent in the world but surely the scouts noticed his lack of fitness and motivation I mean he is our record signing you’d expect extensive scouting to notice these things.

THFCSPURS19 · Aug 8, 2020

Dirtysanchez6 said:
My main concern is our scouts! Yes he has all the talent in the world but surely the scouts noticed his lack of fitness and motivation I mean he is our record signing you’d expect extensive scouting to notice these things.

We would have been well aware of those concerns.

yankspurs · Aug 8, 2020

For the love of all that is holy, do not sell Tanguy Ndombele.

fridgemagnet · Aug 8, 2020

THFCSPURS19 said:
We would have been well aware of those concerns.

I'd like to know if this entourage has always been with him or only showed up after he got his first "big move" and pay day? Can the club ban them from entering the stadium and training ground?

Regards the French media I'm surprised Hugo hasn't been able to issue a thinly disguised "shut the fuck up"

He may be the easy led type who hasn't realised why certain people are his friends. He wouldn't be the first signing to have that problem.

I may be imagining it but I think Sissoko has gotten worse (by his standards) since Tanguy arrival too, although as I've hypothesised before; it's a bit hard to preach about tracking back when you see your colleague (a defender no less) not doing the same but he's still getting picked first each game.

I do think he (and the whole team) will improve tenfold if Aurier leaves though. I'm firmly in the one more season camp unless we get an utterly daft offer.

yankspurs · Aug 8, 2020

fridgemagnet said:
I'd like to know if this entourage has always been with him or only showed up after he got his first "big move" and pay day? Can the club ban them from entering the stadium and training ground?

Regards the French media I'm surprised Hugo hasn't been able to issue a thinly disguised "shut the fuck up"

He may be the easy led type who hasn't realised why certain people are his friends. He wouldn't be the first signing to have that problem.

I may be imagining it but I think Sissoko has gotten worse (by his standards) since Tanguy arrival too, although as I've hypothesised before; it's a bit hard to preach about tracking back when you see your colleague (a defender no less) not doing the same but he's still getting picked first each game.

I do think he (and the whole team) will improve tenfold if Aurier leaves though. I'm firmly in the one more season camp unless we get an utterly daft offer.

The french media arent the ones doing the talking right now about Ndombele. And you would think thats where Tanguy's entourage would be doing the talking. It's the italian media where everything is coming from. They say something only to be quickly shot down by the reliable ones in the English media.

joey55 · Aug 8, 2020

I actually think one of the biggest problems for NDombele has been the success Lo Celso in CM. I think Lo Celso was seen as an Eriksen replacement, but, as it turns out, he's actually been brilliant in CM, more in the role you'd have expected to see NDombele. There were quite a number of times where Lo Celso played in a midfield 2 and he was really good. If we were to sell NDombele, I've read several times that we'd need to replace him, but I think Lo Celso has already done that and it would be easier to find a different replacement for Eriksen.

I think a starting CM of PEH and Lo Celso is a massive step up from Winks and Sissoko. Stick an Isco type in front of them and we are suddenly looking very strong.

worcestersauce · Aug 8, 2020

I do not see us bringing in Højbjerg and then getting rid of Ndombele before they've even played together it just defies logic and to suppose that Levy would let him go at a loss within a year is even less likely.

shoggy33 · Aug 8, 2020

I'm totally on the fence with Ndombele. On the one hand he's really struggled with the physical aspects of the game in this country, and has shown very little evidence that he he is able or willing to do what it takes to get up to speed. On the hand if he does improve physically he will, in my opinion, be our best player and one of the best in the league. I think it's worth giving him another season, but given that we appear to be surprisingly active in the transfer market I wouldn't be surprised if we sold in order to raise some funds.

Goobers · Aug 8, 2020

With regards to the point about transfer funds - I agree that with all the recent links to players - I cannot see how we balance the books ( which the clubs will do this summer again I am sure) without selling a big player. The sales of Aurier / KWP / Rose / Amos / CCV + / - Foyth do not equate to the money we would need to bring in the players we are thought to be buying ...
Surely on balance Tanguy, for a feee close to what we paid would be first out of the door ...

HedgieSpur · Aug 8, 2020

When it comes to our views on players, we are often hostages to our own prejudices (which is why some posters will latch onto "reports of him not trying in training" while others will post stats or videos showing his "amazing talent"). It is for this reason that it is imperative that as a club we have a clear vision and strategy, along with a performance analysis and management framework to assess players.

With this lens, my view is that it is simply too early to properly assess him and hence I would give him another season. I don't think many people dispute that he is talented, what I am looking for now is how Jose employs him on the pitch to get the best out of his attributes. This last point is what I believe separates great managers from average ones.

I remember having a conversation with a Brazilian friend about Miranda when he was at Atleti. A number of fans lamented what they perceived to be the "many" shortcomings in his game, but what Simeone did was to change the narrative by ensuring the team got the best out of his attributes (great positioning and reading of the game primarily)

If Jose is able to see that a PEH, GLC and Ndombele midfield could work behind Kane, Son and Bergwijn then no doubt he will pursue that with the knowledge that Ndombele would be the creative spark to set the front three off. If not, it would be prudent to sell him and bring in the players that he can see playing the way he wants.

Jose has earned the right to be backed and assess players as he sees fit. Im hoping that he actually gives Ndombele a chance to show what he can do next season but equally Im fine with him letting him go if there are players out there he thinks better suits how he wishes to play.

Neon_Knight_ · Aug 8, 2020

Dirtysanchez6 said:
My main concern is our scouts! Yes he has all the talent in the world but surely the scouts noticed his lack of fitness and motivation I mean he is our record signing you’d expect extensive scouting to notice these things.

You'd also expect UEFA's "Technical Observers" to notice these things when selecting the UEFA Champions League team of the season...apparently not though.

joey55 · Aug 8, 2020

worcestersauce said:
I do not see us bringing in Højbjerg and then getting rid of Ndombele before they've even played together it just defies logic and to suppose that Levy would let him go at a loss within a year is even less likely.

I see your point, but I think it's entirely down to what Jose is telling Levy regarding his plans for NDombele. If the coach has decided the player isn't for him, then it defies logic to keep him. Typically a players value doesn't rise if he isn't being used. The only reason there is any talk of him being sold at a loss, is because he didn't figure that much for us. If Jose has told Levy that he doesn't think NDombele is the right fit for what he wants and is unlikely to see much playing time, then surely logic dictates that Levy would look to sell him.

McFlash · Aug 8, 2020

I would love to see a midfield three of Højbjerg in the middle, with Gio and Tanguy either side.
I reckon that would have a little bit of everything needed to be a success.

C0YS · Aug 8, 2020

fridgemagnet said:
I'd like to know if this entourage has always been with him or only showed up after he got his first "big move" and pay day? Can the club ban them from entering the stadium and training ground?

Regards the French media I'm surprised Hugo hasn't been able to issue a thinly disguised "shut the fuck up"

He may be the easy led type who hasn't realised why certain people are his friends. He wouldn't be the first signing to have that problem.

I may be imagining it but I think Sissoko has gotten worse (by his standards) since Tanguy arrival too, although as I've hypothesised before; it's a bit hard to preach about tracking back when you see your colleague (a defender no less) not doing the same but he's still getting picked first each game.

I do think he (and the whole team) will improve tenfold if Aurier leaves though. I'm firmly in the one more season camp unless we get an utterly daft offer.

Mate, the same thing happened with Hugo after like 8 games at Spurs. This is what the french media does time and time again. So, it would be strange for him to be saying that.

Mind, Ndombele has gone public with saying he doesn't have an issue with Mourinho, you can find it somewhere buried in here, was a french interview, and that things have been blown out of proportion. You can't really blame the kid on the french media's spreading discontent. It's what the french media does.

Yiddo100 · Aug 8, 2020

Wonder if poch would want him at Juve (if he goes)

Ron Burgundy · Aug 8, 2020

worcestersauce said:
I do not see us bringing in Højbjerg and then getting rid of Ndombele before they've even played together it just defies logic and to suppose that Levy would let him go at a loss within a year is even less likely.

why? If they’ve/he has decided there’s no future for him at the club, and he won’t put in the effort, I can absolutely see it.

Not saying they’ve decided that, but it’s not so far fetched

mr ashley · Aug 8, 2020

Wonder which midfielders we’d be looking at if we made this trade?
we’d need another midfielder in the squad for sure, and we’ve been told the money would be reinvested (although not sure how that works in a straight swap).
I guess we’d have the money from the Kim deal available, but that’s only 15m.
Enough for Coutinho? Or more likely Eze?

glospur · Aug 8, 2020

There's so much more to being a good footballer than just having the technical skills of Ndombele. Like it or not, work rate, discipline, selflessness, resilience, and a host of other intangibles come into play, especially in the battleground that is the middle of the park. He might have all the talent in the world, and it seems he does, but there's a reason that Winks and Sissoko played ahead of him for a majority of the season, and it's due to a lot of those intangibles, albeit Winks in particular pairs them with some damn fine footballing skills.

If he can't meet at least the minimum fitness and effort standards required from the club, then we shouldn't be directing blame at Jose for wanting to get rid, it should all be directed at Tanguy himself for not putting in the requisite effort. I'd rather see him make it here, but if we think we can get someone in using Tanguy as a make weight or to generate funds who will actually put in the effort, then I'm personally comfortable with that.

yankspurs · Aug 8, 2020

Goobers said:
With regards to the point about transfer funds - I agree that with all the recent links to players - I cannot see how we balance the books ( which the clubs will do this summer again I am sure) without selling a big player. The sales of Aurier / KWP / Rose / Amos / CCV + / - Foyth do not equate to the money we would need to bring in the players we are thought to be buying ...
Surely on balance Tanguy, for a feee close to what we paid would be first out of the door ...

We’ll sell Aurier to bring in Celik and use the rest of Aurier’s money along with CCV, Rose & Amos to help fund Wilson. After that, unless the very underwhelming Foyth sale/Kim buy happens, we’re done In the market barring unforeseen Lamela, Lucas or Sissoko sales.

Moonie · Aug 8, 2020

There are a couple of points we need to look at with him, which may have been mentioned but worth looking at again.
Clearly he is a massive talent, he was one of the hottest prospects in European football. I don’t think thus far people disagree with his ability..

However - he joined us from the french league, it’s far slower and less physical than the premier league, he only made 60 odd appearances for Lyon before moving to us, he is very young. He isn’t a seasoned pro with an abundance of top level experience, he is still very mouldable.
He joined a Poch team in decline, we were god awful before he joined - league wise - the whole team was clearly lost for confidence. He would have felt that, especially being a younger player.
The shock of joining the premier league and the pace involved probably took him by surprise as it does to so many coming over.
He may have had trouble settling, been homesick? Who knows. Then we had the league stopped due to Covid. It’s been an all round weird start to his career.
I want him to come good like all of us, let’s give him this season now he should have settled in and had a proper pre season. I will start judging him harshly is he is still here next season. Let’s see what Mourinho and the team can do with him yeh??

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