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Match Threads Spurs v Everton - Match Thread - Day 1

Match Prediction

  • Our First Win of the Season

    Votes: 166 55.7%
  • Our First Loss of the Season

    Votes: 71 23.8%
  • Our First Score Draw of the Season

    Votes: 51 17.1%
  • Our First Goalless Draw of the Season

    Votes: 10 3.4%

  • Total voters
    298

Jamturk

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2008
9,871
22,934
The amount of times I saw one of our players on the ball and not another white shirt within 10 metres of him was bordering on criminal.
 

Good Doctor M

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2010
2,839
8,766
There's no doubt at all that it was a lazy second half performance and the team as a whole need to take some responsibility for that sh*tshow but JM also deserves to take some blame for that half time substitution, because it sent out the loudest possible message to Everton that we had given up any initiative with the game in the balance at half time, and we directly handed it to them, because only one team had attacking intent from there on in.

Yes Dele was poor in the first half but so was Winks. By taking off Dele and putting on Sissoko, alongside Winks who was offering nothing, and by playing Winks with Sissoko and Hojbjerg JM effectively divorced any connection between transition and supply to our attacking players. If he wanted to make a statement and change things by increasing the attacking threat Winks should have been taken off at half time rather than Dele.
That's what I can't understand. It was such a fearful move to make. Dele wasn't playing great but he was receiving the ball central in advanced positions, we looked a threat for most of the first half and were, I think the team most likely to score.
It was an overreaction from Mourinho to a poor 10 minute spell before half time. Dele didn't deserve it and if I were being cynical I'd almost suggest Mourinho was showing off a little, being intentionally dramatic, almost showboating.

Whatever it was, it was a blatantly poor decision. To then, as the half wore on, to just appear to be throwing subs on to the field without any real notion of a system or formation, it seemed really amateurish by the end. We were barely organised and the players, you could see where not entirely sure where they were meant to fit into this fucking riddle of a shape. It was shit show. A genuine shit show. I can't genuinely remember this team ever looking in that bad a shape, and I include the Brighton loss last year.
 

Lumiere

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
1,323
4,354


Hang on, you're telling me you DIDN'T want to start off the season with a crushing defeat? Absolutely shocked here mate.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
3,730
5,431
If there there was a crowd there today they'd have been deservedly jeered for most of that match. It is still jarring to me to watch how we let opponents have possession to the halfway line, and often beyond, before we properly engage. It's as though we're an over 40s team playing younger opponents.

We played similarly against Leicester late last year but scored three. This style is rubbish, but the narrative is that it is necessary to become winners. That run-in last season seemed to buttress that point, but I don't see us properly competing for top 4 with this approach. Everton weren't great but look more robust and dynamic than last season and their central midfield pivot looked good.

It's going to be a long slog of a season. This game could've played out exactly as it did today but with Alli's and Doherty's chances going in and the response would be very different. But it would just paper over the underlying problem, which is that we're a risk averse side playing cynical football. We don't create many chances and we're asking for outrageously high chance conversion to be competitive.
 

TonyS

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2005
528
967
The comments on here are not an over reaction, nor do I subscribe to "it's the first game, chill" line. This is a continuation of what has been served up for close on two years now. I have said it before and I'll say it again, we missed a trick some years ago. A little investing and things should, and would have been better.
The problem is we can't compete financially and any business that does happen, is somehow connected to the debt of the new stadium. I fully get that, but it's so hard to accept.
If Levy and Enic truly have the best for the club at the forefront, then they need to find a buyer, who can invest and make us compete. At the end of the day, football is about winning shit, and we ain't winning anything, anytime soon
The players need to take a long hard look at themselves, not that I'm sure they will and please please, stop with their stupid lines on social media on how they need to do better etc etc. Show up when you are required and put in a shift. Very simple.

47 years on as a fan, I along with you all will continue to support the team we love. Pity others who claim the same, would do something also
 

mattdefoe

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2009
3,182
2,572
The substitution was wrong But the game was still 0-0 we still had enough quality on the pitch to win the game

Our team was camped in our own half , it felt like we were the away side in our own home there was a time at 1-0 down when all of our players were behind the ball in our own box

Completely wrong and strange approach to that game
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
If there there was a crowd there today they'd have been deservedly jeered for most of that match. It is still jarring to me to watch how we let opponents have possession to the halfway line, and often beyond, before we properly engage. It's as though we're an over 40s team playing younger opponents.

We played similarly against Leicester late last year but scored three. This style is rubbish, but the narrative is that it is necessary to become winners. That run-in last season seemed to buttress that point, but I don't see us properly competing for top 4 with this approach. Everton weren't great but look more robust and dynamic than last season and their central midfield pivot looked good.

It's going to be a long slog of a season. This game could've played out exactly as it did today but with Alli's and Doherty's chances going in and the response would be very different. But it would just paper over the underlying problem, which is that we're a risk averse side playing cynical football. We don't create many chances and we're asking for outrageously high chance conversion to be competitive.
You’ve summed that up absoloutley excellently mate ???

The things is at the end of the day goals and results are what matters as if Doherty and Dele score and we win 2-0 then it is a different narrative you’re right but we would have the 3pts in the bag. Leicester played deep counter attacking and won the league but they had the exact players to do it, 4-4-2 solid organised experienced back line, two disciplined energetic CM’s, balanced wingers where one is an up and down workhorse the other can create something out of nothing and then pace to burn in behind Vardy and an all round competent strike partner, our players just aren’t suited to play this way and so it’s a mish mash of some parts low block, some mid block, press here don’t press there but ultimately you’re right and I’m of the same school of thought that two things increase your chances of winning games over a match and a season :
1) possession - if you have the ball, the opposition can’t score
2) chances creates and shots, if you generally create a lot of chances and have a lot of shots you’re more likely to score

Peak poch we absoloutley smothered teams with our energy and pressing and movement and creativity, athletic full backs Walker and Rose up and down creating havoc going forwards and not letting anything past, Belgian duo at CB, amazing passers of the ball and readers of the game, so so solid and calm, Wanyama destroying all attacks and he could pass better than people give him credit for, Dembele the GOAT bossing entire midfield on his own, Son Dele Lamela in rotation with energy high pressing direct attacking and movement off Kane who would score everything and anything and could hold it up, run into space And the key to it all, Eriksen who for 2-3 seasons was absoloutley world class in terms of creativity. The team played with energy, we were fit, we were determined, we bullied teams but would also squeeezed the life out of them and then passed them to death or scored beautiful goals in transitions, heck even before Poch we played some lovely high tempo stuff Under Harry, we were respected by all the pundits and other fans but my goodness HOW HOW HOW have we gone from that to this?

Honestly it’s just so very depressing :(
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
You’ve summed that up absoloutley excellently mate ???

The things is at the end of the day goals and results are what matters as if Doherty and Dele score and we win 2-0 then it is a different narrative you’re right but we would have the 3pts in the bag. Leicester played deep counter attacking and won the league but they had the exact players to do it, 4-4-2 solid organised experienced back line, two disciplined energetic CM’s, balanced wingers where one is an up and down workhorse the other can create something out of nothing and then pace to burn in behind Vardy and an all round competent strike partner, our players just aren’t suited to play this way and so it’s a mish mash of some parts low block, some mid block, press here don’t press there but ultimately you’re right and I’m of the same school of thought that two things increase your chances of winning games over a match and a season :
1) possession - if you have the ball, the opposition can’t score
2) chances creates and shots, if you generally create a lot of chances and have a lot of shots you’re more likely to score

Peak poch we absoloutley smothered teams with our energy and pressing and movement and creativity, athletic full backs Walker and Rose up and down creating havoc going forwards and not letting anything past, Belgian duo at CB, amazing passers of the ball and readers of the game, so so solid and calm, Wanyama destroying all attacks and he could pass better than people give him credit for, Dembele the GOAT bossing entire midfield on his own, Son Dele Lamela in rotation with energy high pressing direct attacking and movement off Kane who would score everything and anything and could hold it up, run into space And the key to it all, Eriksen who for 2-3 seasons was absoloutley world class in terms of creativity. The team played with energy, we were fit, we were determined, we bullied teams but would also squeeezed the life out of them and then passed them to death or scored beautiful goals in transitions, heck even before Poch we played some lovely high tempo stuff Under Harry, we were respected by all the pundits and other fans but my goodness HOW HOW HOW have we gone from that to this?

Honestly it’s just so very depressing :(

I always try to ease the pain by comparing what Im seeing now to Spurs in the 90s - when every goal or clever pass in an almost inevitably poor result would be the things that would keep one warm in the bitter disappointment.

But I must admit this one hurt. I understand why Jose took off Dele - to get a more athletic presence in the middle. But then to see ball bounce off Sissoko, Winks doing a lot of pointing but then passing the ball sideways, and Everton look like Barcelona every time they touched the ball, a full strength Spurs squad but clearly off the pace and seemingly not hungry enough except for PEH and maybe Moura to a certain degree .... This one hurt. Feeling devastated for some reason.

Any silver lining fellow community members?
 

luptic

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2008
2,352
3,062
If you start the season bringing in Hart, Doherty & Hojbjerg to solve your problems, you know the season is going to very long.
 

kent brockman

Beware of the Daviesaurus
Sep 1, 2012
1,247
2,618
Mourinho deserves time, of course. Just think that's worrying today and the subs were bizarre.

And yes its only one game, but that second half was so poor in terms of a lack of effort it was actually quite chilling.

There was no reaction really after going a goal down.

But yes, we have to hope that Mourinho will rip into them and we see a reaction.

Mourinho does need time. However, he has been here longer than Ancelotti has been at Everton. Just saying. Jose is known for at least being able to create a rock solid defence, where ours so far look anything but.

Unlike us, Everton played with a purpose and they completely dominated us in midfield, where Allan and Doucoure made them look really solid (seemingly without needing time to settle at all).

Going forward, Richarlison and Rodriguez really exposed our defence. I lost count of how many times we let Richarlison turn inside on his right and curl the ball towards the rear post.
 

kent brockman

Beware of the Daviesaurus
Sep 1, 2012
1,247
2,618
If you start the season bringing in Hart, Doherty & Hojbjerg to solve your problems, you know the season is going to very long.

Still think Doherty looked pretty good going forward (and probably should have scored).
Whereas his attacking role gave Richarlison way too much room, that is clearly how we are set up to play.
 

tiger666

Large Member
Jan 4, 2005
27,978
82,214
I agree we didn't win anything then either but it was great football to watch and we felt it was about to happen. We're still not winning but it's pretty dire to watch these days with not a lot of hope.

We lost one match. This is the end of last season.

Capture.PNG


Can we not at least see a few more games in to the season before all this wrist slitting starts.
 

sparx100

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2007
4,612
6,646
We lost one match. This is the end of last season.

View attachment 73426

Can we not at least see a few more games in to the season before all this wrist slitting starts.
You would like to think there will be a reaction, but for me I want to see green shoots, some cohesion, a plan and at a minimum some effort. I get that we won't win every game this season but if we are going to lose then I want to see players busting a gut to compete. Not one player today looked like they were up for it. You would think 1st game of the season there would be at least some motivation?

This season will be a long one if the players don't recognise how poor they were. Without a doubt our most valuable player will be thinking about his future after that result.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

You would like to think there will be a reaction, but for me I want to see green shoots, some cohesion, a plan and at a minimum some effort. I get that we won't win every game this season but if we are going to lose then I want to see players busting a gut to compete. Not one player today looked like they were up for it. You would think 1st game of the season there would be at least some motivation?

This season will be a long one if the players don't recognise how poor they were. Without a doubt our most valuable player will be thinking about his future after that result.
Maybe he can have a think about his present as well?

There are a few lacking in any form of preseason and while others on other teams haven't had similar, it still showed yesterday. I agree with you on the effort stakes on the squad as a whole (effort, work rate as best as each individual can show) I just don't think any player at the club should be focusing on their future when all we hear from them is shite like 'winning silverware is what it's ultimately about' (something to that degree) and then turn in an opening day performance like that.

It's like we reverted back to the whole of last season - was yet again a game of two halves - either they learn to be more clinical when they do create or we're back to square one, again.
 

peterballb

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
158
1,327
Here's the thing with the pressing game - all teams do it now, to varying degrees. To romanticize when we were one of a few teams that relentlessly did it is great. Hardly the now.

The issues are plain to see, so far as I am concerned. Most glaring, we do not have a player who routinely gets the ball from back to front. Lo Celso and Ndombele are not yet fit. Playing Winks and Hojberg together was always a bad idea. They are the same player (I believe Hojberg to be better). As a result, we had no driving force except when we bypassed the MF or were on the counter. This means we do not control the play. Everton's MF were not great. They were miles better than ours.

So, now we get it up to our top 4 and they are all in each other's way. My kingdom for a winger that will play the wing. Son, Dele, Moura have no desire to stay out wide. Thus compressing the game in the final third and making life so much easier for the opposition D. Can Dele just shoot instead of all of the flicks and tricks? Harry mad at Son for not giving him the ball? Was there ever a through ball possible? I didn't see it. Kane was always on the other side of the defender from Son. Yes, he could have tried a sublime chip, but that's really low percentage.

And then there's the goal. Why are we all switched off? Most players on other teams would be gesticulating when a player steals 5 yards on a free kick. Not nice Spurs. We sit back and let them do it and the complain after the fact. And whatever happened to attacking balls coming in to your area. Lloris rooted to the ground (Pickford three times punched out balls). Alderweireld and Dier playing the players not the ball. Just attack the ball.

So many fundamentals not being executed. Do we have a plan when we have corner? I fail to see any discernible plan? Son passes sideways when there was only one play remaining in the half rather than throwing the ball in to the box. What was that? Why do we not run at players? How many rash tackles do we force other teams to make? We seem to never have the opposition at full stretch.

This has been an issue since January 2019 where I feel we lost our mojo. We succeeded despite ourselves.

Mourinho has a lot to address. Yes, was not his team when he took over. That said, he is the man now. Where were Fernandes and Lamela? Lamela would have pushed from back to front (and he defends). Fernandes would have been a winger. Even Clarke would have stayed out there and caused Everton to spread out.

Sorry, pulling Dele for Sissoko was not going to improve the fluidity.

Now, the positives. Hojberg breaks up play as expected. Doherty's give and go with Kane was great. Pickford made himself big and Doherty may have deserved better. Dele, when playing direct, is great (needs to get rid of the flicks and tricks, which are 80% of his game). Ndombele (in flashes) shows how he moves the team when he gets the ball in and out of his feet fast (too many loose passes though). There is a sublime talent there. Can Mourinho coax it out of him for 90 minutes

Last positive, no title has been won or lost in the first week. Priority should remain, get through to the group stages of EL and first two rounds of Carabao Cup, without injuries, so that we may normalize our schedule and move forward with some sense of normalcy. Next two weeks are going to be brutal. When we have chances, we need to be clinical. Dele and Doherty score and it is a different game.
 

DEFchenkOE

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2006
10,527
8,052
It's bad when I'm more looking forward to watching other teams like Leeds play as opposed to us.
 

topper

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2008
3,806
16,254
I always try to ease the pain by comparing what Im seeing now to Spurs in the 90s - when every goal or clever pass in an almost inevitably poor result would be the things that would keep one warm in the bitter disappointment.

But I must admit this one hurt. I understand why Jose took off Dele - to get a more athletic presence in the middle. But then to see ball bounce off Sissoko, Winks doing a lot of pointing but then passing the ball sideways, and Everton look like Barcelona every time they touched the ball, a full strength Spurs squad but clearly off the pace and seemingly not hungry enough except for PEH and maybe Moura to a certain degree .... This one hurt. Feeling devastated for some reason.

Any silver lining fellow community members?
We've got as many points as the two Manchester clubs?
 
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