Jose Mourinho

shelfboy68 · Feb 5, 2021

We are a better team than results suggest, however we have zero creativity which the tactics have contributed in nullifying.
The players are not performing well enough but I don't buy the missing Kane bit, the club got to a CL final without him.
The football is confidence draining, mind numbingly tedious there is no joy watching or playing in that team.
This was always going to be the case if performance levels and results went astray, Jose got away with it when we were grinding them out but as soon as it stopped all has gone to shit.
I don't know where we go from here as we continue to slide down the table, we have a cup final to look forward to although not in current form.
I really can't see Jose staying in his position but then who else is out there certainly Levy's gamble has failed.

luptic · Feb 5, 2021

We need to get back to what, enabled us to get to where we did. Recruit young players, refreshing it up, and getting rid of those older players.
You only see what Leicester are achieving with this model.
Levy really needs to get his finger out....
The signing of Jose as Pochettino replacement was hugely questionable, but the signing of Bale was hugely in the wrong direction.

PlayerX · Feb 5, 2021

Pretty obvious, but interesting JJ replied only after last night

-Afri-Coy- · Feb 5, 2021

LeParisien said:
10 of the squad weren’t. Play your signings.

But that point is not a necessary part of the broader argument.

Doherty - Shit. But no one knew that when we signed him.
Vinicius - Started okay so far for a new language and new league, players behind him offering no service.
PEH - World class, deserves his spot.
Rodon - Potential to be very good, still needs to iron mistakes. JM should've played him instead of Dier.
Hart - Really?
Gedson - Gone and didn't work out, it happens.
Bale - Not the player we all thought we were gonna get. Stevie much more deserving of the starting spot.
Regi - Injured but so far so good. Looks brilliant on the ball.

If I have missed anyone you can let me know but bar PEH and Reggi these signings have largely been underwhelming. Now we can't always win with our signings and we did try to get players within our budget so we can't expect them to hit the ground running. This will however be very interesting if we do indeed get a new manager. To see what we can get out of the above.

But to answer your question, except for those two none of the above have done anything to warrant starting over what we already have when they have been given a chance. Which is truly sad. Is this down to quality or management I do not know. But when we signed them we signed them for cover, and not as upgrades on what we had.

nico97531 · Feb 5, 2021

LeParisien said:
I don’t think you really read the post you quoted.

As I said in the post you quoted, it is not the exact same set of players.

As I said in the post you quoted, this is about relationships. The relationship between Poch and his squad degraded and was bad by the end and he had to go. As Poch would admit. However for many years that relationship was excellent. Squad potential was being maximised. At that point it was legitimate to ask whether we might be able to do better if more resources were given by Levy to the playing squad.

As I said in the post you quoted, this team is not playing to its full potential and needs a leader who can unlock its potential. This is not a group of players who are performing at their best and simply aren’t good enough to meet the fans’ expectations.

What potential are you talking about and from who exactly, you mean the likes of sissoko and dier?

Danny1 · Feb 5, 2021

Ultimately we have a few players that are very very good and the rest of the squad are incredibly average. I agree that Jose’s methods aren’t working either but our lack of buying quality over the years is costing us.

Over the last few years we have lost: Rose, Walker, Vertonghen, Toby (getting old), Dembele, Wanyama, Eriksen, Alli (prime Alli).

Now look the replacements:

Rose - Reguilon.
Walker - Aurier.
Vertonghen - Sanchez.
Ageing Toby - Rodon.
Dembele - Ndombele.
Wanyama - PEH.
Eriksen - GLC.
Alli - Bergwijn.

The quality has dropped in general and the players who are good have mostly joined this season in Reguilon and PEH.

We, in my opinion, have to accept that we are an average side and that without serious investment our place in the league is somewhere between 5th and 8th. Sad state of affairs but other clubs are investing heavily and buying quality while we have generally been standing still for the last few years.

As for Mourinho, I’ve been backing the guy a lot, however it does appear that he has lost the dressing room from the lack of effort shown. If this is the case then there is only one thing to do and that is relieve him of his duties.

TheHoddleWaddle · Feb 5, 2021

hellava_tough said:
It may well have been.

It's a more difficult thing to reference than looking up the results stats

I just recall the games played, being ultra defensive and we were all commenting on it. That was when, I'm sure, Jose abandoned all attacking momentum.

hellava_tough · Feb 5, 2021

TheHoddleWaddle said:
I just recall the games played, being ultra defensive and we were all commenting on it. That was when, I'm sure, Jose abandoned all attacking momentum.

Agreed.

It was both the wrong thing to do and deeply frustrating because we all knew we were better than that.

Some of those sides we were drawing against, we should have been battering.

hellava_tough · Feb 5, 2021

Btw, it's funny that in my mind I've just assumed he's not our manager anymore.

Too many years as a Spurs fan, that I've seen the signs that the writing is on the wall.

spurs-r-us · Feb 5, 2021

Gingernut said:
Or could it be that Jose is not 100% to blame and the fact they look like they've got a little bit bored of doing spreadsheets in your example, which they are paid handsomely to do, and are now refusing to do so efficiently. They down tools rather than take it on the chin

Maybe the manager needs to try something new?

spursfan77 · Feb 5, 2021

rez9000 said:
And again, we then return to the the same question: why then did they do the same to Poch?

We can keep going round this idea, but as yet, no one who seems to want to lay the blame at Mourinho's door has been able to come up with an adequate answer as to why it's happened to two very different managers in the space of three years.

It doesn't seem to happen elsewhere.

Chelsea change managers all the time. How come their players still seem to put in a shift?

West Ham - they may have been shit under Moyes, then Pellegrini, then Moyes again (until recently), but they didn't piss about on the pitch looking like their mothers had just been shot. They put in a shift.

Southampton got tonked 9-0 last season. What did they do? They pulled their socks up and worked and strove and put in the effort and dragged themselves back to their feet. Having been again tonked 9-0, I would, given the choice between which I thought more likely, Spurs to show gumption and get themselves back on their feet or Southampton, still put every penny I had on Southampton.

My God, Newcastle! They're managed by a man that huge swathes of people deride (not saying it's fair, just that they do) - do you see them refusing to put a shift in?

The key difference? The teams above, at the very least, have balls. Our poor little fragile egos don't 'believe' in the project? My heart bleeds! I can give them tens of thousands of reasons, every week, why their excuses should fall on the deafest of ears.

They need to pull their own socks up, not expect Poch or Mourinho or the next poor bastard who takes this poison chalice of a job to wipe their arses for them. They each need to grow a pair.

Have we made it too nice for them at the club?

The training ground and stadium, the wiping of their own arses but having a hotel at the training ground.

None of them are going to want to try harder if they are well paid and left in such a cushty environment.

nailsy · Feb 5, 2021

Ghost Hardware said:
Wtf is that response the Bale question, I actually laughed out loud when he started pulling a face like a slapped fish.

He obviously doesn't think he's good enough, but he can't say that in a press conference.

dudu · Feb 5, 2021

LeParisien said:
Of course football has its particular features. Mourinho is a leader in a football context. He’s not the CEO of a petrol company or a headmaster who has parachuted in grudgingly - this is his game.

I have managed a company too and been managed. I am almost certain the dynamic is absolutely nothing like that of the manager/player dynamic at a football club.

Im not arguing that Jose isn't failing at particular aspects of his job, he clearly is, but the players are failing at theirs too and I know for sure that in the first half last night, those not pulling their weight, moving for the ball showing for a pass were NOT following basic football instructions.

Jose isn't saying.... Serge, don't make space and move for a pass, Tanguy, just stroll around and don't bother pressing properly.

spursfan77 · Feb 5, 2021

hellava_tough said:
Btw, it's funny that in my mind I've just assumed he's not our manager anymore.

Too many years as a Spurs fan, that I've seen the signs that the writing is on the wall.

Yeah I agree. We all know unfortunately the chances of him turning it around are probably non existent. It is just waiting out time now and feels like the end is coming, although it doesn’t feel close yet. I still think this has a while to run. Trouble is, our season could be over by then.

hellava_tough · Feb 5, 2021

spursfan77 said:
Yeah I agree. We all know unfortunately the chances of him turning it around are probably non existent. It is just waiting out time now and feels like the end is coming, although it doesn’t feel close yet. I still think this has a while to run. Trouble is, our season could be over by then.

If we lose against the Baggies then he'll be on the brink.

Obvious to say, but ultimately if you're losing games you should be winning, the players aren't putting in the effort and key squad members are grumbling, then you're for the sack.

Simple as that really.

Seafordian Spurs · Feb 5, 2021

nailsy said:
He obviously doesn't think he's good enough, but he can't say that in a press conference.

Getting Bale and getting Jose waaaay out of their peak years. Couldn't be anything more Spursy.

I want the crowds back, Gio, Dele, Skippy and Sess reintegrated and a proactive minded manager.

Why not? I respect Jose but he doesn't know how to work with a squad that doesn't cost millions. The argument is that you accept shit football for tangible success under Jose but who the fuck thinks we're beating City?

Oh well. COYS.

Gingernut · Feb 5, 2021

spurs-r-us said:
Maybe the manager needs to try something new?

Maybe they are paid to do a job and they should do it?

spurs-r-us · Feb 5, 2021

Gingernut said:
Maybe they are paid to do a job and they should do it?

Lovely old school stuff there, but it doesn't wash anymore. They are doing their job, which is to play football and compete. If we want them to be motivated and be good at their job, we need the club leadership to come together and change whatever isn't working.

By your logic, football teams don't need managers because they're paid a lot of money so should just play well.

sidford · Feb 5, 2021

Jose was the wrong choice and a lot of people saw that right from the start but most of us wanted to be proved wrong but unfortunately that hasn't happened. IMO he has to go but this shouldn't be blamed solely on Jose.
What a number of our players have shown is that they are cowards who hide on the pitch when they are needed most and for me I'm looking forward to seeing the back of a number of them.
People are quick to pile in on lamela and Lucas but they actually looked for the ball last night and took responsibility. Apart from PEH and Tanguy no one else did

Everlasting Seconds · Feb 5, 2021

Defeated by Chelsea isn’t that big of a deal, since other teams we can compare ourselves with, such as Aston Villa, also lost. And lucky for us that Arsenal and Aston Villa play each other, so we can use that result to establish our claim to top 8.

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