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Player Watch: Gareth Bale - Retires

Lifelong

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
777
1,892
I think we can agree to disagree because I doubt I would change your mind.

But it is likely that your opinion will not be shared by most Spurs supporters, let alone non-Spur ones.

You are saying that King's better than:
1) Modric, a Ballon D'Or winner, in a Ronaldo/Messi era.
2) Bale, a world-record transfer, who has basically won everything you can win in club football.

King has:
1) Not played in CL
2) Played less than 30 games from 2006 season onwards.
3) Not an England regular.

I have special memories of King mainly because he was the stand-out player back when we were mid-table or worse. However if I were to be objective, I dont think King's even better than Toby. The Toby/Verthogen backline is widely recognized as the best of what we had since PL, and has performed at CL-level.
King was a special special player described by many of his fellow pros as a freak due to his lack of training yet still turning out the weekly performances that he did. Even Henry called him the best defender he played against as he never fouled him and always won the ball fairly….an absolute Rolls Royce of a player….
 

HodisGawd

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2005
1,745
5,958
Terry etc have won more stuff and have played at a higher level for longer. This makes them better players in my view, despite what various eye-tests and conjectures may say otherwise.
No, it means they achieved more. Achieving more and playing in better teams is not the measure of being a better player. This is entirely a subjective debate. So if you watched Terry and Rio and think they were better players, just say so. But don't ever come back on this forum ? I can see how you got your name.
 

ultimateloner

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2004
4,609
2,264
King was a special special player described by many of his fellow pros as a freak due to his lack of training yet still turning out the weekly performances that he did. Even Henry called him the best defender he played against as he never fouled him and always won the ball fairly….an absolute Rolls Royce of a player….
Yeah I acknowledge all that. Never said he wasn't good.

However I just don't think he is better than Modric/Bale, and the prior message were some of my reasons.
 

ultimateloner

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2004
4,609
2,264
No, it means they achieved more. Achieving more and playing in better teams is not the measure of being a better player. This is entirely a subjective debate. So if you watched Terry and Rio and think they were better players, just say so. But don't ever come back on this forum ? I can see how you got your name.
To be honest I can't remember (that Terry/Rio>King). But then I dont watch those games enough compared to Spur ones. Some of what King has done I would always remember, like that last ditch tackle when he ran all the way back.
I like your point though..that achievement is not the same as better.
But since 'better' is subjective (so a moot point) I thought 'achieved more' is the next best parameter for comparison.
 

Lifelong

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
777
1,892
Yeah I acknowledge all that. Never said he wasn't good.

However I just don't think he is better than Modric/Bale, and the prior message were some of my reasons.
He may not be better, although there’s always an argument for….but I’d have a pound that both bale and modric would have in their team all day long..
 

ultimateloner

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2004
4,609
2,264
Yeah, slightly condescending. But didn't agree with the son and Ledley comments
I understand. Given the replies I'm getting you are not alone.
I'm actually abit surprised because I thought what I said (Modric/Bale/Kane best players from this club, better than Son/King) is pretty uncontentious.
By no means am I saying the latter 2 are bad players; they are great players. Son is world-class.
But Modric is like the finest in a generation. I mean that assist he did to Rodrigo against Chelsea in CL..to be able to spot and execute that pass, at his age, against that sort of opposition. Special.
Same thing from Bale against Inter..etc etc.
 

Dov67

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2005
3,383
10,504
The shame of it was that when he did return it was a season of empty stadia

with 5 subs, and with a realistic pay per play contract it would seem like a win-win for everyone - assuming Conte wants it of course???
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2003
9,297
11,355
All this talk of The King in The Bale thread has made me want to put a PL XI together, is there such a thread as I can’t find one!
 

gibbospurs

SC Supporter
Aug 28, 2010
5,017
6,663
3 months ago I would of been all over Bale coming back. But not now. Eriksen yes. We beat Norwich on Sunday then we are back under the big boy column. Let’s spend like the itk guys believe and have a go. No need for Bale unless cheap wages. Which he won’t agree to.
 

coy-spurs1882

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,015
10,538
3 months ago I would of been all over Bale coming back. But not now. Eriksen yes. We beat Norwich on Sunday then we are back under the big boy column. Let’s spend like the itk guys believe and have a go. No need for Bale unless cheap wages. Which he won’t agree to.
why not? he is still world class and can win us matches. I am more confident that we will score if we bring on Bale instead of Bergwijn or Lucas
 

CoopsieDeadpool

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2012
18,257
70,419
I think we can agree to disagree because I doubt I would change your mind.

But it is likely that your opinion will not be shared by most Spurs supporters, let alone non-Spur ones.

You are saying that King's better than:
1) Modric, a Ballon D'Or winner, in a Ronaldo/Messi era.
2) Bale, a world-record transfer, who has basically won everything you can win in club football.

King has:
1) Not played in CL
2) Played less than 30 games from 2006 season onwards.
3) Not an England regular.

I have special memories of King mainly because he was the stand-out player back when we were mid-table or worse. However if I were to be objective, I dont think King's even better than Toby. The Toby/Verthogen backline is widely recognized as the best of what we had since PL, and has performed at CL-level.

As in best for us or just 'best for any team'?
Best for us is probably true. I think his importance to us is even greater than Bale because it's over a longer period.

I think discussions around King is always going to be about 'what ifs'.
I dont disagree with what you said, namely that if he wasn't as injury prone he could have achieved more (and tbh, probably not with us because better clubs would have poached him).

Thats why i caveat my points with 'objectivity'; in other words, what him and the players he has been compared with had done.

Going along those lines, King/Terry etc have won more stuff and have played at a higher level for longer. This makes them better players in my view, despite what various eye-tests and conjectures may say otherwise.

nope I'm over.

No need to be condescending.

Agree with both statements. Consistent with my statements as well.

Yeah I acknowledge all that. Never said he wasn't good.

However I just don't think he is better than Modric/Bale, and the prior message were some of my reasons.

To be honest I can't remember (that Terry/Rio>King). But then I dont watch those games enough compared to Spur ones. Some of what King has done I would always remember, like that last ditch tackle when he ran all the way back.
I like your point though..that achievement is not the same as better.
But since 'better' is subjective (so a moot point) I thought 'achieved more' is the next best parameter for comparison.

I understand. Given the replies I'm getting you are not alone.
I'm actually abit surprised because I thought what I said (Modric/Bale/Kane best players from this club, better than Son/King) is pretty uncontentious.
By no means am I saying the latter 2 are bad players; they are great players. Son is world-class.
But Modric is like the finest in a generation. I mean that assist he did to Rodrigo against Chelsea in CL..to be able to spot and execute that pass, at his age, against that sort of opposition. Special.
Same thing from Bale against Inter..etc etc.


Phil fucking Jones, Wes Brown, Phil & Gary Neville, Lee Dixon, Paul Merson.

All of Leicesters 2015/16 squad.

They all won more than Ledgeley King. None of them are fit to lace his boots, let alone better players.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
All this talk of The King in The Bale thread has made me want to put a PL XI together, is there such a thread as I can’t find one!

Bale would definitely be in my Spurs PL XI (that's how I justify it being in this thread) ;)

Biggest controversy for me would be Toby and Verts in ahead of King. I just think they are better suited to this 3-4-3 formation. But look at the bench.... if allowed 5 subs I'd still have a problem working out who to put on.

Lloris
Romero---Alderweireld---Vertonghen
Walker-------Dembele---Modric------Ziege
Bale----Kane----Son

Subs: Robinson, Trippier, King, Rose, Carrick, Sandro, Ginola, Teddy, Berbatov, Klinsmann​
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,400
15,026
Bale, like Eriksen, would return as a squad player. He would be a fantastic option against teams like Brighton, Southampton and Wolves who we struggle to break down. His goals could be the difference in ten or twelve points a season. He is still capable of scoring goals from nowhere which could be the difference between (for example) beating or losing to Brighton a couple weeks ago. I think we are definitely a stronger squad with him in it.
 

djhotspur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2021
6,855
15,980
Bale would definitely be in my Spurs PL XI (that's how I justify it being in this thread) ;)

Biggest controversy for me would be Toby and Verts in ahead of King. I just think they are better suited to this 3-4-3 formation. But look at the bench.... if allowed 5 subs I'd still have a problem working out who to put on.

Lloris
Romero---Alderweireld---Vertonghen
Walker-------Dembele---Modric------Ziege
Bale----Kane----Son

Subs: Robinson, Trippier, King, Rose, Carrick, Sandro, Ginola, Teddy, Berbatov, Klinsmann​
That team imo would easily get 100 points in the league. It would unplayable. Throw in eriksen as an option at 10 to help in midfield
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
19,667
332,033
His agent today said he could join Cardiff City
I thought he was asked the question and basically just didn't rule it out. I'd say it's more likely than him coming back here, but then I certainly wouldn't rule out retirement if Wales don't qualify for the WC either.
 
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