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Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

Tezza1978

Tezza1978

Well-Known Member
Jun 3, 2021
780
3,039
lami said:
Either back Conte with the players he wants and stand behind him, or go out and get a second rate manager to manage our second rate squad.
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I don't agree with the first part of your post (Conte should definitely stay in my opinion) but essentially this line is spot on.

If you don't want to back him - pick someone for a managed decline/back to Europa conference football/ 5% chance of hitting lucky with a group of youngsters in a season where the big boys mess up. That's the crux of it - and the 2nd option if chosen will make me lose 90% of my interest in Spurs.

Either take the next step and try and be a genuine big club for once and for all - or accept mediocrity, being plucky underdogs with an "entertaining side" and the butt of all other fans jokes for the next 10 years.
 
fishhhandaricecake

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,557
48,847
The Doc said:
If ten Hag had come to us, we would not have bought any of the players he has been given by Utd. None of them. Cheaper alternatives yes. Would be same as now, maybe worse, with fans saying he is out of his depth etc.
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I think he could’ve still got us but by bit playing the style of football we love to see at Tottenham with some cheaper alternatives who are the right fit type of players.

We could’ve signed some young talented Ajax players for example, I fully believe if the fans saw him implementing a high pressing, possession based pass and move dominating attacking style of play that the majority of them would have been far less angry than they were during Jose and Nuno and they’d have been much more patient because they’d actually have been enjoying some of the football they’d seen us play, same with Poch, yes it was up and down early days as he was clearing out the squad but there were glimpses of what he was trying to do and patches of football that were very easy on the eye, right now that is just not the case at all and conte has been backed with far more money and signings than poch ever was.
 
muppetman

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
9,185
25,645
fishhhandaricecake said:
Tbh I think it’s actually the complete opposite, our fans are extremely patient, IF the football is easy on the eye, if it’s not AND the results are bad then the wolves ?/ knives ? are out.

This is why I felt so strongly that Ten Haag would’ve been the absolute perfect manager for us, it’s far easier to get fans onside and build momentum if the style of play and type of players you’re signing is exciting to watch.

Boring football and players = frustrated impatient fans.

Exciting football and players = more patient fans.

Sure there will always be some who are all about the results but Jose had us top of the league and we weren’t that happy because the football was boring, Conte had us 3rd earlier this season but we weren’t happy because the football has stank, whereas Jol, Redknapp, Poch etc have all played a lovely exciting brand of football that we enjoy so if/when the results weren’t as good the fans were much more patient, heck we were 10-12th under Jol at one point but the fans adored him as a person and the football we played, he totally ? understood the clubs history and tried to play a style of football our fans would appreciate, Redknapp the same and Poch the same.

These are the types of managers we should’ve been giving full control to and properly backing.

We just aren’t a rich enough money machine to give these super elite managers hundreds of millions of signings every window year after year and especially not when the football they produce is BORING, Spurs fans are extremely patient we’ve won’t f all for 30 years whilst our main rivals have been winning all sorts but what Spurs fans don’t accept is boring football.
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Have to agree to disagree on this one. People talk about "playing good football" and unsurprisingly if you do that, you are going to win more than you lose but if it was lovely looking stuff but we lost 2-0 every game then the knives would be out pretty quickly.

The fan base seemed a pretty contented lot at the end of last season when we went on a run and battered Arsenal at home so it's not that Conte isn't capable of getting the team playing well. I agree that the football has been pretty turgid for quite some time now but what fans really want is excitement AND winning.

As for previous managers - the expectations of the fans are hugely different than when we had Jol and Redknapp managing us. We'd been so bad for so long that they were a breath of fresh air but now at £1k+ a ST and all the talk about what a "massive club" we are I don't think that would fly.
 
Stavrogin

Stavrogin

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2004
2,365
1,481
Cochise said:
"Not every coach gets the players they want to work in their system". Pep has, Klopp did until now and we can see how that's working out. ETH has and so has Arteta. Arteta in fact has gotten his inverted fullback wishes fulfilled, his false 9 wish fulfilled and his tricky winger wishes fulfilled. Every coach needs the right players to succeed.
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Again, I don't understand this comment.

No one has ever said what players he needs, like specifically. Until Porro came up there wasn't much speculation about which RWB Conte needed. Do we need a midfielder like Kante who plays like two men?

There is a lack of specificity about what and who he needs. So it's hard to understand this narrative that he has been betrayed and not backed. From what I understood Conte was satisfied how things were going, until the results got bad.
 
mil1lion

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,707
78,631
YB123 said:
I'm talking about the Arsenal game in particular. It was glaringly obvious we needed another body in midfield.

Of course Lloris set the tone again but i'm focussing on the tactics purely for yesterday and it was very very wrong. And i'd go as far as saying thats not an opinion, its fact.
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But Utd dominated us too when we went 3 in midfield, the players are simply not good enough. They can't play the Conte way and you can't ask Conte to change his way when it works everywhere else. Are people seriously thinking it matters if we change formation with this group of players? We lost to Arsenal because Arteta has had 4 years and 300m to build his team. Until Conte gets that backing his football won't work regardless of formation. Lloris doesn't throw the ball in his own net because of formation. We also play so much better 2nd half and again formation isn’t an issue then either. People talk about getting overrun in midfield like we have 10 men. It means we have an extra body elsewhere but we're just not using it.
 
SpartanSpur

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,560
43,103
Spursfan1414 said:
Conte isn't a coach on the Klopp/Pep/Tuchel level. He's not capable of changing his system or adapting to the specific squad he's got. If Klopp didn't have TAA/Robertson, he'd have found a way to get more creativity into the midfield of his team. Pep switches between back 3 and 4s on a game by game basis.

When Conte has problems, his only solution is to buy better players at huge cost. Does anyone think that Klopp would've spend half a season pretending that Emerson and Sess are the reincarnations of Roberto Carlos? Of course not, he'd have changed his system to favour the strengths of the squad he actually has, not the one he wishes he had.

People can moan about Levy as much as they like, and a lot of the time they have a point, but even if he opens the cheque book we're still not going to be a Man City who can go out and buy the only available player who fits what they need at ridiculous cost. That's why we need a coach who's capable of adapting and that's never been or going to be Conte.

He did 2 seasons at Chelsea, 2 at Inter, 3 at Juventus. He's not a project manager and even if he were, the project looks completely appalling. We can moan about the squad all we like, none of that explains the drop off from last season to this one.

Honestly, I'm not even sure Conte cares. I think he's here for the paycheck and to protect his reputation. He's not remotely himself on the touchline, he's not even trying to solve the obvious issues with our tactics. Liew in the Guardian put it perfectly:
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I'm not sure I fully agree with this. Liverpool's form nosedives whenever Van Dijk is out. They are also massively struggling becuase their midfield balance is completely off. The loss of Wijnaldum and the physical drop off of Henderson and Milner has not been addressed. I think it's a pretty fair assessment to say Klopp hasn't fully figured out how to make the most of Thiago.

If anything Liverpool this season are pretty similar to us. Struggled due to injuries and loss of form from key players.
 
I

IamSpurtacus

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2019
1,487
7,011
Trix said:
Bit of both, with the potential of being game changing or infuriating.
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Classic levy

sounds like the NFL negotiation where his approach meant we ended up with a nominal 10M contribution, but could have had more if he hadn’t played silly buggers
 
JUSTINSIGNAL

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,037
48,791
TOLBINY said:
3-5-2 OR 5-3-2 - really?
Did anyone watch us play Utd away this season - almost certainly worse than any other performance this campaign.

If we are going to change then, based on our current squad, it has probably got to be 4-3-3 (you need a creative mid for 4-2-3-1 which I don't think we have)

Emerson* Romero Lenglet Davies
Bentacur Bissouma Perisic
Kulu Kane Son (or Richie)

* decent RB - awful RWB
Romero and Lenglet both comfortable coming out with the ball, so full backs can tuck in with the one CB who stays home.
I think there is enough defensive bite and creativity in that midfield.
And we maintain 3 up front.
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Agree with this. Fans make such nonsensical suggestions in the aftermath of defeat.

3-5-2 just doesn't work for us as it allows the other team to easily build from the back. Son and Kane are awful at pressing.
 
fishhhandaricecake

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,557
48,847
muppetman said:
Have to agree to disagree on this one. People talk about "playing good football" and unsurprisingly if you do that, you are going to win more than you lose but if it was lovely looking stuff but we lost 2-0 every game then the knives would be out pretty quickly.

The fan base seemed a pretty contented lot at the end of last season when we went on a run and battered Arsenal at home so it's not that Conte isn't capable of getting the team playing well. I agree that the football has been pretty turgid for quite some time now but what fans really want is excitement AND winning.

As for previous managers - the expectations of the fans are hugely different than when we had Jol and Redknapp managing us. We'd been so bad for so long that they were a breath of fresh air but now at £1k+ a ST and all the talk about what a "massive club" we are I don't think that would fly.
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I think it’s a balance between entertainment and winning with most of our fans leaning more towards ‘entertainment’ and good football than winning.

Also if we lost 0-2 every game I’d find it hard to believe we’d be playing football, if we were losing 2-3 or 3-4 and going toe to toe with teams then that would be more like good excitihn attacking brave football but I do understand your point.

And yes you’re right the expectations of the fans have changed since Jol, Redknapp etc so perhaps we were more easily pleased back then but we also had a far far far more exciting team.

Under Jol we had a young exciting English core of players and stylish classy players like Carrick and Lennon and Berbatov and Keane and Defoe etc.

Redknapps team had Modric, VDV, Bale, Lennon, Defoe, Keane, Crouch and our beloved Ledley King, the team was so exciting and much more likeable

The same under poch with the likes of Walker, Rose, Toby, Jan, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, young Son and Kane

It is a fine balance right now with Conte because we’ve got so close but not won for so long that finally hiring a manager of contes stature and fully backing him makes sense but when the football is as boring as it has been for the majority of this season and where after signing 6-7 players this summer we’ve essentially got worse, I can see why some are concerned by the prospect of spending more and more money for a manager who is producing barely watchable football for 45-60 mins of most matches and who isn’t committing to signing a longer term deal anyway.

So as with most things in life a bit of a balance is required.
 
fishhhandaricecake

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,557
48,847
The Doc said:
Come on then you turd slinging monkey who can't stick to one opinion from one post to another. You are such a plastic. Which one would DL have bought? Antony?
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Literally no clue how to respond to this, one of the strangest responses to one of my posts I’ve ever seen, hence your 5x wtf ratings already.

Onto the ignore list, don’t want to spam up the thread with your nonsense but I replied already as to why I thought Ten Haag would’ve been a much better fit for our club than Conte already.

We are now between a rock and a hard place right now deciding what to do next regarding how much we continue to back Conte or not. I really really hope it all works out ok but as many many on here have said, ITK’s, long term posters etc, it does unfortunately just feel like Groundhog Day and that we are yet again in bit of a mess.
 
PrettyColors

PrettyColors

Rosie47 Fan
Aug 13, 2011
3,866
10,074
There is zero excuse for Conte to not have us playing better. I could name 20 managers around Europe who do much more with less.

He had an entire world cup break FFS and he's been absolutely done to bits by Emery and Arteta. Like laughably outcoached.

His system is so fucking easy to solve and he foolishly persists with Royal, Sessegnon, Doherty, and Perisic as our most important players. I hate playing with our shitty wingbacks more than I have ever hated any part of football in my entire life.

It's so fucking obvious... to everyone. Except the wig wearing ponce from Italy. And then he has the temerity to turn around and act like he's just here on a laugh and that we owe him something. No, you owe US something. Better fucking management!!!!
 
fishhhandaricecake

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,557
48,847
One thing about Conte that has been debated well on here is his stubbornness’ to stick to his 3-4-3.

On one hand it’s his favoured formation and I can see why he’d want to drill the specifics of this to the squad and then add players to fit accordingly rather than say play 4-3-3 and then have to re-coach them his favoured 3-4-3 when he gets enough players to suit it.

However there is an argument that some have interestingly put out on here which is that if he is such a good coach then why given that the 3-4-3 is clearly at times not working, does he not switch to a back 4 as the football can’t really get much worse.

Having played and coached myself (obviously not quite at Conte’s level) I find it a very interesting debate.

Pep and Klopp took a similar approach to conte in that they came in straight away switching to their favoured 4-3-3 and bought players to better suit this style of play.

The main issue with Conte is that 3-4-3 is a very specialist formation and requires quite specific signings so it can take quite a while to build the squad that he needs and then when he leaves we’re left with a squad that is quite niche.

Id be ok either way but if we are going to back Conte then it has to be properly on his terms, for me that would mean this Jan signing a CB, RWB and AM minimum to really kick us into life otherwise it’s going to be a long 2nd half of the season.
 
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