Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

hescominghome · Jan 18, 2023

For those of you who aren't sure whether a CB would make a big difference to the side, look at how solid we became once we signed Alderweireld to slot in alongside Vertonghen.

We went from the 5th most goals conceded the year before in 14/15 with Vertonghen, Dier (Sigh), Fazio, Chiriches, Kaboul and Wimmer to one of the most solid defences in europe. It obviously wasn't solely down to that but lets not underestimate how much of a difference top quality CBs make! Even with one quality CB in Vertonghen, he needed a capable partner to truly solidify the defence. It helped that Toby had an immense passing range as well.

Pochemon94 · Jan 18, 2023

hescominghome said:
Toby had an immense passing range as well.

Toby's passing range was almost like having a second deep lying midfielder, he could spray the ball out to those areas behind the wingbacks perfectly, forced defenders to have to stay back with Son/Dele running onto the end of em. those teams were fun

Hakkz · Jan 18, 2023

YB123 said:
He uses Fred against the better teams to do a specific job.

Garnacho is one of Europes biggest talents.

Using what he has? He's hardly been given scraps.

He's been given a world cup winning CB he knows well, a £100m winger he knows well, arguably the best CDM in Europe of the last 5 plus years for big money and we all know what Eriksen can do. Its hardly miracles hes pulled up, he's been backed with moves he wanted and others would have turned nose up at (Eriksen, Antony, now Weghorst)

Sorry but wtf.

Before ten Hag came in people on this forum were agreeing that their squad wasn't really that impressive.

People were making fun of both the signings. Martinez because he was too short and was never going to make it and Antony because they paid so much money.
Now Martinez is a "world cup winning CB" and Antony a "£100m winger" (implying that's his value and not what they paid I suppose?).

Ten Hag was properly backed with key players BUT he also used players already at the club who were looking like nothing. Martial, Rashford etc. That's good coaching and nothing we have seen here for a while.

Hakkz · Jan 18, 2023

hescominghome said:
For those of you who aren't sure whether a CB would make a big difference to the side, look at how solid we became once we signed Alderweireld to slot in alongside Vertonghen.

We went from the 5th most goals conceded the year before in 14/15 with Vertonghen, Dier (Sigh), Fazio, Chiriches, Kaboul and Wimmer to one of the most solid defences in europe. It obviously wasn't solely down to that but lets not underestimate how much of a difference top quality CBs make! Even with one quality CB in Vertonghen, he needed a capable partner to truly solidify the defence. It helped that Toby had an immense passing range as well.

Jan got his former partner back, someone he has played a lot with over the years and in the national team. That is a perfect fit.
How Bastoni would play next to Dier and Romero, people he has never played with, is a total unknown.

wspur · Jan 18, 2023

YB123 said:
He uses Fred against the better teams to do a specific job.

Garnacho is one of Europes biggest talents.

Using what he has? He's hardly been given scraps.

He's been given a world cup winning CB he knows well, a £100m winger he knows well, arguably the best CDM in Europe of the last 5 plus years for big money and we all know what Eriksen can do. Its hardly miracles hes pulled up, he's been backed with moves he wanted and others would have turned nose up at (Eriksen, Antony, now Weghorst)

He's not been given scraps, Mourinho was on the other hand and no one is defending him. Just look at the squad, the players that kept their spot are Kane, Son, Hojbjerg, Dier, Loris and and Doherty. In the windows since Bergwijn, Dele and Lamela were replaced by Richarlison, Kulu and Gil. Sissoko, Winks, Lo Celso and Ndombele by Sarr, Bentancur, Bissouma and Skipp, also Reguilon with Perisic and Alderweireld with Lenglet. If I am not missing anyone, the one in bold are signed by Conte as clear upgrades to the "scraps" that Mourinho had. That's 6 players that he wanted, add to that Romero who I don't think he'll complain about too much. All this in 2 windows.... it's not enough but the narative that he is a miracle worker with a shit squad is BS

DSpurs · Jan 18, 2023

IamSpurtacus said:
You're entitled to complain about Conte. I've not seen anyone suggest criticizing him is by default a defence of ENIC/Levy

But the thing you say you want (the highlighted quote) is the very thing we don't and won't have because of Levy.

Whether it's 'arry, AVB, Poch, Jose, Conte - the issue isn't the manager, their attitude or philosophy. Those things are a red herring for the constant chopping, changing and penny pinching from Levy at critical moments.

There is no long term vision for the team, no commitment to excellence for the first team squad or academy set up, or the necessary investment to challenge consistently at the top, despite what Levy himself said was a "game changer" from the stadium.

That's the gripe - not that conte is untouchable, or that we should stick with him regardless. It's just that if we won't back him, who will we back? Based on the past 20 years, no one.

Which fall guy will come in and be asked to work with the same group of mediocre players elevated by the 3 -5 who are good enough?

Who the next manager will be is irrelevant if Levy remains in charge.

I would winner this more than once if possible!

Stamford · Jan 18, 2023

DanielJohnCosta said:
your point is that arsenal are more ambitious because they almost sign players, we do the exact same thing and once again I'll use Bastoni argument.

The point is Arsenal get actually have a plan and they continue to sign and be in the convo with or without Champions League football. We short change managers. Our fanbase is practically read to throw Conte under the bus because of Djed Spence, its laughable.

Metalhead · Jan 18, 2023

bubble07 said:
He is very anti moshiri

I see that he was scathing about his leadership - accusing him of lacking a clear vision and effectively hiding behind 'open letters' to fans.

Metalhead · Jan 18, 2023

JacoZA said:
I deeply admire what Levy has achieved at THFC from a business perspective. The stadium, the training ground, etc. are things we could and should all be very proud of.

But now that that is all in place, his mishandling of football matters is becoming much more of a liability. What he's gotten wrong stretches far beyond a few poor appointments. (Not to mention the disgustingly spineless way in which the club now seems to be spinning the narrative.)

I don't absolve Antonio from all responsibility of current performance, but that we're even having conversations about the abilities of a manager of Conte's level shows that something's rotten in the district of N17, and while I also doubt Levy will go - he should not get off lightly should Conte leave.

IMO what we should be debating is what should accountability look like at the club when a manager is let go.

That feeds back into Conte's point the other day about how other officials within football clubs should be facing the media as well as the coach. The owners would never let themselves be coerced into facing the media but I do dislike that lack of accountability.

Nebby · Jan 18, 2023

parj said:
Look at Arsenal. Beginning of last season Arteta should have been sacked for his start. Instead he got backed. Looks like they might be rewarded for it

Could that be because the manager and board where on the same page? I don’t recall Arteta talking about leaving, saying that expectations were too high, or that he needed a director to step up at press conferences to take some of the questions about the club’s strategy. Seems pretty clear that Conte just isn’t committed to Spurs. He’ll be off in the summer.

djhotspur · Jan 18, 2023

Nebby said:
Could that be because the manager and board where on the same page? I don’t recall Arteta talking about leaving, saying that expectations were too high, or that he needed a director to step up at press conferences to take some of the questions about the club’s strategy. Seems pretty clear that Conte just isn’t committed to Spurs. He’ll be off in the summer.

Or maybe because arteta felt backed and supported, wasn’t being messed around on a contract and was listened to on targets…

parj · Jan 18, 2023

Nebby said:
Could that be because the manager and board where on the same page? I don’t recall Arteta talking about leaving, saying that expectations were too high, or that he needed a director to step up at press conferences to take some of the questions about the club’s strategy. Seems pretty clear that Conte just isn’t committed to Spurs. He’ll be off in the summer.

I agree. Arteta did what was needed to sort the team out. Forget Conte, I'm talking about Levy doing the same for Poch

spursfan77 · Jan 18, 2023

parj said:
Fred was a donkey.

Garnacho still had to be played. Still had to be backed by the manager.

Conte was given Bentacur, Romero, Kulu, Bissouma, Richarlison, and Perisic, on top of already having PEH, Son and Kane. Conte has been given players. That's a pretty good two windows.

Let’s let him get them all on the pitch together then and a run of games to see if we can build some form. He hasn’t had that yet this season. Eg. Romero/kulusevski/bentancur have only played together twice this season.

parj · Jan 18, 2023

Joshua shepherd said:
Kulu and Bentancur have hovered around world class. Richarlison and Romero (despite already being here) have shown glimpses. Perisic has racked up the assists.

Not one of those players is a defensive player, our biggest weakness is in defence. Coincidence?

Perisic is a wing back for us, not a winger.

Bentacur is one of our two CMs so is defensive. We literally play with midfielders whose primary roles are to defend.

Romero is a centre back.

neogenisis · Jan 18, 2023

spursfan77 said:
were you saying the same thing in May when he got us champions league?

Come on now, he said himself it was a miracle. Arsenal bottled it big time. Yes he got us into the Cleague but Arsenal collapsed like a twig shed in a magnitude 8 earthquake.

parj · Jan 18, 2023

Stamford said:
The point is Arsenal get actually have a plan and they continue to sign and be in the convo with or without Champions League football. We short change managers. Our fanbase is practically read to throw Conte under the bus because of Djed Spence, its laughable.

I don't think fans are throwing Conte under the bus because of Spence. It's because Royal had been so poor and he hasn't given Spence a chance.

Conte is being thrown under the bus because of the style he is playing

spursfan77 · Jan 18, 2023

neogenisis said:
Come on now, he said himself it was a miracle. Arsenal bottled it big time. Yes he got us into the Cleague but Arsenal collapsed like a twig shed in a magnitude 8 earthquake.

They don’t do that though if we are languishing in eighth do they? They capitulated partly because we were there chasing them down and winning every week and the pressure got to them.

neogenisis · Jan 18, 2023

spursfan77 said:
They don’t do that though if we are languishing in eighth do they? They capitulated partly because we were there chasing them down and winning every week and the pressure got to them.

I dont know do they? Because all I know is they bottled it and Conte said us getting 4th was a miracle basically.

chelmyid · Jan 18, 2023

Spursfan1414 said:
Daniel Levy is not forcing Antonio Conte to play Emerson at RWB constantly. He's not forcing him to play 2 in CM who constantly get outnumbered.

There isn't one problem here, there's two:

Things have been a mess off the field

We have a manager who does not suit us and is underperforming with this squad.

I want things to change off the field. I do not believe Conte is the right manager for us. They are not mutually exclusive.

Part of the change I want is an actual project, with an attacking minded coach and young players with high potential. Conte is not the man for that

I don’t disagree with your last paragraph at all - however - they can’t both go at once (it won’t happen) so - if conte goes first then levy stays and we wont get our wish. Another puppet comes in and we go round in circles.
Conte will hold the club accountable therefore back him first, to get change at the top - then once a better structure is in place footballing wise change the manager.
that’s what everyone means when they say bigger picture

spursfan77 · Jan 18, 2023

neogenisis said:
I dont know do they? Because all I know is they bottled it and Conte said us getting 4th was a miracle basically.

A miracle with this group of players is what he said. I don’t know why you’re belittling our achievement.

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