Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

We went from having a great defence to it being utterly terrible. I think that’s where a lot of problems lie. Why we aren’t trying to being in a Dier upgrade or even alternative now I’ll never know. I’m sure lots of our problems stem from his loss of form and everyone else’s loss of confidence in him. It’s such an important position glueing that back 3 or 5 together.

If we could just sort that out I think we’d be so much better. The drop off in his form coincides massively with our drop off as a strong defensive team.

spursfan77 said:

We went from having a great defence to it being utterly terrible. I think that’s where a lot of problems lie. Why we aren’t trying to being in a Dier upgrade or even alternative now I’ll never know. I’m sure lots of our problems stem from his loss of form and everyone else’s loss of confidence in him. It’s such an important position glueing that back 3 or 5 together.

If we could just sort that out I think we’d be so much better. The drop off in his form coincides massively with our drop off as a strong defensive team.

Click to expand...

Honestly mate I've been saying it for the longest time now. When you trust those behind you it allows you to play without fear, because you know they'll mop up. All this sideways passing in midfield and retreating further and further back isn't be design, it's borne out of fear. You can hear Conte(same thing with Jose) screaming at the players to play forward, and push up when we have possession and yet we always end up retreating backwards. yes without the ball they like to sit deep, but when we have it they want the players to be more progressive.

When the back line are scared they'll make mistakes it soon spreads through the entire team. I think Hugo is a major part of this problem as well.

Trix said:

Honestly mate I've been saying it for the longest time now. When you trust those behind you it allows you to play without fear, because you know they'll mop up. All this sideways passing in midfield and retreating further and further back isn't be design, it's borne out of fear. You can hear Conte(same thing with Jose) screaming at the players to play forward, and push up when we have possession and yet we always end up retreating backwards. yes without the ball they like to sit deep, but when we have it they want the players to be more progressive.

When the back line are scared they'll make mistakes it soon spreads through the entire team. I think Hugo is a major part of this problem as well.

Click to expand...

Funnily enough, thinking back to when it went tits up under Mourinho, it’s when Dier started to make errors then, compounded by the rest of the defence following suit. I’m not making this a blame Dier post really just it’s not the first time he’s played well and is liked by a manager but then has a complete nosedive in form. Fuck, actually, did it happen under Poch too after his appendix problems, might have you know?

I watched a bit of the Wolves game last night and thought someone like Nathan Collins (available last summer) could have come in and played that position to a tee. Quite dominating and a good passer.

It is an important position but not really one that should be that hard to play for any experienced competent defender. Shame Conte like previous managers likes him and seems to not want to replace him.

Trix said:

Honestly mate I've been saying it for the longest time now. When you trust those behind you it allows you to play without fear, because you know they'll mop up. All this sideways passing in midfield and retreating further and further back isn't be design, it's borne out of fear. You can hear Conte(same thing with Jose) screaming at the players to play forward, and push up when we have possession and yet we always end up retreating backwards. yes without the ball they like to sit deep, but when we have it they want the players to be more progressive.

When the back line are scared they'll make mistakes it soon spreads through the entire team. I think Hugo is a major part of this problem as well.

Click to expand...

That's why when we signed Kulu and Bentancur last year at this time and they went straight into the team, hit the ground running, and looked like they played with absolutely no fear at all.

This season, they've been important to us too, when Bentancur plays it's like he just plays with his instincts, not his mind - sometimes good, sometimes that may lead to a mistake, but more often than not he does something positive.

I'm not sure how easy it is to coach that through the entire team for Conte, or whether the answer is to give him more of these experienced players around the squad.

Even watching Villa/Leeds the other day - I thought Gnonto tore up the left flank, but in the back of my head 99 year old Ashley Young still felt like he was controlling the situation. He's a former Conte player and one Conte wanted at the time, and to me, just shows the type of players Conte demands in his squad. Yes these types of players can be older, ruin your squads chances of younger players coming through, but he's gotten the job done at every single club with players like these.

Blows my mind that the club wouldn't at least buy in and try that route for 2-3 years to time with Kane/Son's final years then go full rebuild. They started buying in and then moved the posts and said ehhhh they need to be younger, they need resale value

Trix said:

Honestly mate I've been saying it for the longest time now. When you trust those behind you it allows you to play without fear, because you know they'll mop up. All this sideways passing in midfield and retreating further and further back isn't be design, it's borne out of fear. You can hear Conte(same thing with Jose) screaming at the players to play forward, and push up when we have possession and yet we always end up retreating backwards. yes without the ball they like to sit deep, but when we have it they want the players to be more progressive.

When the back line are scared they'll make mistakes it soon spreads through the entire team. I think Hugo is a major part of this problem as well.

Click to expand...

Defenders being confident in being able to play it back to their keeper is huge for a teams perceived composure in defence.

This perceived composure then has a huge impact on how teams play against you. When they believe you have low composure all their forwards play with their tails up and press like mad men for the whole game.

However when you play a team like Brentford for example, and you press them early on and they play it back to Raya and he expertly plays the ball over the pressing forwards head springing a counter attack, it demoralises the forwards and the pressing falls off instantly. Thus making the defenders look more composed by proxy.

Trix said:

Honestly mate I've been saying it for the longest time now. When you trust those behind you it allows you to play without fear, because you know they'll mop up. All this sideways passing in midfield and retreating further and further back isn't be design, it's borne out of fear. You can hear Conte(same thing with Jose) screaming at the players to play forward, and push up when we have possession and yet we always end up retreating backwards. yes without the ball they like to sit deep, but when we have it they want the players to be more progressive.

When the back line are scared they'll make mistakes it soon spreads through the entire team. I think Hugo is a major part of this problem as well.

Click to expand...

Liverpool had a problem similar problem few years back and spent over the odds on Van Dijk, Alisson, Fabinho and Keita to address the issues

Trix said:

Honestly mate I've been saying it for the longest time now. When you trust those behind you it allows you to play without fear, because you know they'll mop up. All this sideways passing in midfield and retreating further and further back isn't be design, it's borne out of fear. You can hear Conte(same thing with Jose) screaming at the players to play forward, and push up when we have possession and yet we always end up retreating backwards. yes without the ball they like to sit deep, but when we have it they want the players to be more progressive.

When the back line are scared they'll make mistakes it soon spreads through the entire team. I think Hugo is a major part of this problem as well.

Click to expand...

I detest the playing out from the back (starting with Hugo). It’s fine if the 4 in front of him have Cruyff type skills but they er don’t. Instantly puts us back under pressure. We stopped under Jose but we’ve reverted back to type again. If your not good at it stop fucking doing it.

Tezza1978 said:

I take it you can't say any more on this mate so I won't be asking!

I hope that WLBs ITK last night still holds and we have a chance of this window going from "0 to 100" (!)

Click to expand...

I cant help but see QSI QSI QSI when im "reading between the lines here"

Either they come in and Conte gets happy and we buy or they dont and Conte stays sad and we dont

Everything feels like a massive, massive sliding doors moment for this club over the next couple of weeks

spursfan77 said:

Funnily enough, thinking back to when it went tits up under Mourinho, it’s when Dier started to make errors then, compounded by the rest of the defence following suit. I’m not making this a blame Dier post really just it’s not the first time he’s played well and is liked by a manager but then has a complete nosedive in form. Fuck, actually, did it happen under Poch too after his appendix problems, might have you know?

I watched a bit of the Wolves game last night and thought someone like Nathan Collins (available last summer) could have come in and played that position to a tee. Quite dominating and a good passer.

It is an important position but not really one that should be that hard to play for any experienced competent defender. Shame Conte like previous managers likes him and seems to not want to replace him.

Click to expand...

Indeed individually all our defenders can defend, and they aren't too bad in 1v1 situations. What they struggle to do is pass out, they make simple clearances look difficult and fail to track runners at times. The last part I think is in part down to the coaching although when you consider the coaches we've had are all defensive minded I wonder if they are just failing to adapt and understand where they should be.

Scott Spur said:

This is a must read......

The Great Con of Tottenham Hotspur - World of Hotspur

Share This: As fans’ restlessness and unease grows, Tottenham’s ownership seems primed to double down on their failed policies of the past 22 years. And while some may perceive Tottenham’s chronic malaise as neglect, or ineptitude, a closer look reveals far worse; everything is going exactly...

worldofhotspur.com

Click to expand...

For people reading this be very careful, it is not accurate. I want Levy out as much as next fan but I also think it's wrong when misquotes and factual inaccuracies are used against anyone.

Let's start with the quote used
"Here, my task is different. My task is to build a solid base, then try to improve.

If you ask me if the challenge is to win the Premier League or the Champions League, this is not the task here. If I want to stay here, then I have to accept this. Otherwise, if I do not want to accept this, then I have to go."

The actual quote is "If you ask me, 'is the challenge to win the Premier League, the Champions League?' This is not the task here for this moment. The task for me is to help the club. I signed a contract in November [2021] and I found the club in a difficult position, for many reasons. My task, I understood very well, is to try to help the club to go in the right direction or to come back in the right direction."
The bit in bold is crucially missing from the original quote and puts a completely different slant on it.

THe article goes onto say "For a manager to come out publicly and state that his club’s ambition is not to challenge for silverware, is remarkable — unprecedented not just in England" yea that's what the wrong quote reads like alright but that's not accurate so all of that is just nonsense.

another thing I have an issue with is this piece "They have milked the club dry over the past 22 years, using Tottenham as collateral for external real estate projects" that is just factually incorrect. ENIC do not take money out of the club, they did once in their 21 year ownership and that was years ago.
second part of the statement is deliberately misleading "external real estate projects" all of this is done within the Tottenham group of companies and without it the stadium would never happen.
To be honest I stopped reading when I got to that stage. There are a number of valid criticisms in the article but to blatantly misquote Conte and then use factual inaccuracies on top of that is just wrong.
I really hope Levy is removed from the footballing side, and to be honest I would just like him removed altogether, but "articles" like this are not the way to educate fans on Levy's many mistakes and short comings.

Scott Spur said:

This is a must read......

The Great Con of Tottenham Hotspur - World of Hotspur

Share This: As fans’ restlessness and unease grows, Tottenham’s ownership seems primed to double down on their failed policies of the past 22 years. And while some may perceive Tottenham’s chronic malaise as neglect, or ineptitude, a closer look reveals far worse; everything is going exactly...

worldofhotspur.com

Click to expand...

Think it’s time for a revolt. This could easily be organised through Spurs forums. Apart from bringing ‘levy out’ banners fans to the stadium fans need to stop purchasing anything in the stadium. So buy a beer in a local pub etc.

Trix said:

Indeed individually all our defenders can defend, and they aren't too bad in 1v1 situations. What they struggle to do is pass out, they make simple clearances look difficult and fail to track runners at times. The last part I think is in part down to the coaching although when you consider the coaches we've had are all defensive minded I wonder if they are just failing to adapt and understand where they should be.

Click to expand...

My observations :
i) We almost never win the 2nd ball nowadays
ii) If we win it , the first pass from defense doesnt find a Spurs player and given away in midfield. These counter press losses are one of the key reasons
iii) Conte organisation - he plays to his pattern which require his players in specific zone. This only works if players are technically good and able to execute passes under pressure. So, when we have misplacing players, Conte's system disintegrates. End of last season - everything was perfect. Passes from backline, midfield 2, front 3 -all were in sync. Now for injuries or what not, its been a mess.
iv) Lloris distributions - well documented. Of late, he is not releasing the ball quicker when he has it under control. Our 2nd goal vs Arsenal may not have happened had he released it when our players were streaming forward.
v) Lloris shot stopping- Usually his shot saving % is 75% - this season its down 69%. Huge drop as this number is bang average or worse.
vi)

carlosspurs said:

What are the long term goals ?

What does hiring and firing consecutive managers indicate (all of them changed their view on the parameters)?

Agree none of the coaches were likely seen as short-term, but if they have all been sacked I suggest that there is a clear fault in the strategy , which takes as back to the first point - what is the long term goals and who's responsible for the failure to reach them? Can't see how it's feasible to lay this at the feet of the managers. How we sack a manager to go back round again, is inconceivable. Its like Groundhog Day .. Levy would sack Levy

Click to expand...

The long-term goal as I understand it is to be competing for all the main trophies every season, and winning a good proportion, using extra funds generated organically by the new stadium. This has been added to by a £100 million (£150 million down the line?) by ENIC and possible further outside injections of capital.

The first part of this has been achieved regularly in my view, and the second part is a failure. This failure can be explained in very large part by the unexpectedly early close calls on trophies by Pochettino at a time when funds were scarce because of the new stadium and Hotspur Way developments taking up all available funds, then by the Covid debacle which threatened the club's very existence, which fans tend to conveniently forget.

The strategy as I understand it to achieve this goal is to incrementally improve the playing squad both by improvements and replenishment of the first team squad and a much improved academy set up, and employing high quality coaching and back up teams. The academy took a massive hit in my opinion with the departure of John McDermott, who I don't think has been adequately replaced, and Fabio Paratici has been tasked with a root and branch overhaul of the set up, which hopefully will see discernible improvements over time. This will of course will only be achieved when players can see a pathway to the first team which includes more than being on the bench.

What the hiring and firing of consecutive managers indicates (to me) is that Daniel Levy too often thinks like a fan with his headline appointments and therefore goes for a "name" manager, and in doing so goes against the footballing philosophy of the club. To my mind this applies to both the Mourinho and Conte appointments, but also AVB, Ramos, Santini, and possibly Hoddle, plus (unsuccessfully) Van Gaal.

I regard Nuno Espirito Santo as a panic appointment when all other avenues had been exhausted.

This to me is a massive fault of Levy's. He has a mission statement and a strategy to achieve that, but in purely footballing matters lacks the courage of his convictions and makes appointments to excite the fanbase. However in all other matters relating to the Club he is single minded, purposeful and excellence orientated.

I suspect he understands this fault and therefore has always preferred the Director of Football model, where he can keep away from purely footballing matters, but goes against this when coaches do well, such as Martin Jol and Mauricio Pochettino, by changing their title to manager, but expecting them to continue to act as Head Coach. With Fabio Paratici's appointment in a more senior role than DOF perhaps Levy can distance himself more.

The fact that you continually refer to "managers" rather than "head coaches" does make me wonder though whether we see what is going on in the same way. Conte is not a Manager. He is Head Coach, with a different set of responsibilities.

Scott Spur said:

This is a must read......

The Great Con of Tottenham Hotspur - World of Hotspur

Share This: As fans’ restlessness and unease grows, Tottenham’s ownership seems primed to double down on their failed policies of the past 22 years. And while some may perceive Tottenham’s chronic malaise as neglect, or ineptitude, a closer look reveals far worse; everything is going exactly...

worldofhotspur.com

Click to expand...

"ENIC are like a parasite. A ruthless, insatiable investment firm that latches its teeth onto unsuspecting football clubs, before sinking them ever deeper into their operations. Slowly, but surely, the football clubs die a miserable death, their identities and DNA quietly eroded, while something altogether different takes shape in its place. Tottenham today are not a football club. They are, at best, a sports and leisure company. At worst, they are merely an arm of the English National Investment Company, an asset in a sprawling global real estate portfolio"

Wauw

In regards to Antonio Conte I will say this, he has lost 3 good friends this year also. I am sure this has impacted him.

DickTopSpursFan said:

I detest the playing out from the back (starting with Hugo). It’s fine if the 4 in front of him have Cruyff type skills but they er don’t. Instantly puts us back under pressure. We stopped under Jose but we’ve reverted back to type again. If your not good at it stop fucking doing it.

Click to expand...

I agree, but the other problem is that nothing much sticks up front these days unless it's Kulusevski. Add that to Hugo's wayward kicking (why does he always balloon it up in the air?) and our inability to win second balls in midfield because we're always outnumbered, and it becomes a bit of a perfect storm.

Archibald-CPH said:

"ENIC are like a parasite. A ruthless, insatiable investment firm that latches its teeth onto unsuspecting football clubs, before sinking them ever deeper into their operations. Slowly, but surely, the football clubs die a miserable death, their identities and DNA quietly eroded, while something altogether different takes shape in its place. Tottenham today are not a football club. They are, at best, a sports and leisure company. At worst, they are merely an arm of the English National Investment Company, an asset in a sprawling global real estate portfolio"

Wauw

Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, have ENIC ever owned another club, or is this just this guy airing an opinion based on zero fact?

Archibald-CPH said:

"ENIC are like a parasite. A ruthless, insatiable investment firm that latches its teeth onto unsuspecting football clubs, before sinking them ever deeper into their operations. Slowly, but surely, the football clubs die a miserable death, their identities and DNA quietly eroded, while something altogether different takes shape in its place. Tottenham today are not a football club. They are, at best, a sports and leisure company. At worst, they are merely an arm of the English National Investment Company, an asset in a sprawling global real estate portfolio"

Wauw

Click to expand...

It's got it's agendas as pointed out and not well written in that sense but with the explanation of what's going on it is going the right way describing it.

Dunc2610 said:

Just out of curiosity, have ENIC ever owned another club, or is this just this guy airing an opinion based on zero fact?

Click to expand...

They owned Slavia Prague, funnily enough I don't believe they ever won a Trophy under ENIC either.

spursfan77 said:

Funnily enough, thinking back to when it went tits up under Mourinho, it’s when Dier started to make errors then, compounded by the rest of the defence following suit. I’m not making this a blame Dier post really just it’s not the first time he’s played well and is liked by a manager but then has a complete nosedive in form. Fuck, actually, did it happen under Poch too after his appendix problems, might have you know?

I watched a bit of the Wolves game last night and thought someone like Nathan Collins (available last summer) could have come in and played that position to a tee. Quite dominating and a good passer.

It is an important position but not really one that should be that hard to play for any experienced competent defender. Shame Conte like previous managers likes him and seems to not want to replace him.

Click to expand...

I remember us flying and then played West Ham and crumbled suddenly towards the end of the game to snatch a draw from victory. It all went downhill after that game. The players seemed to doubt themselves and what he had witnessed seemed to scare the **** out of Jose as well. He could no longer trust them and they couldn't trust themselves.