Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

mil1lion · Jan 20, 2023

Harrier said:
I agree to a certain extent, but the number of new players required to play Conte’s system effectively is more than would be required for a back four IMHO.

Also it doesn’t deal with the elephant in the room as far as the brand of football we might want to be watching over the next three or four seasons.

Yeah the brand or DNA as Levy said is also to be considered. I just think if we had an Alderweireld and Vertonghen we would probably still play a back 3 and be suited to attacking football. Thing is Conte may not be the most attacking but his teams still build from the back. I would be a lot less happy if we started to go long ball all the time. So I do think Conte players are ideal even if we switch to attacking football. I hate to use them as an example but when Arsenal got Wenger they dominated because they had a solid defence. The transition to attacking football is so much better when you have that defensive foundation in place. We look so much more assured when Romero plays out compared to Lloris, Dier or Davies. Regardless of brand of football the top teams need defenders and a keeper who can play out under pressure and not turn into a nervous wreck. I do feel the profile of a Conte player is just what we need no matter how long Conte is here for.

Goobers · Jan 20, 2023

Trix said:
I find it ridiculous that fans are buying into this media bollocks of "you can't back him if he won't commit." The club hold an option on his contract for another 12 months, and you don't go to work day in day out fighting your boss tooth and nail to improve your working environment if you want out. You just don't!

The narrative or "spin" on this over the last fortnight has been quite something. How Conte has been painted as the bad guy is beyond me (This does not detract from some of my questioning his decisions however).

Russ1201 · Jan 20, 2023

Amazes me how everyone blames Conte or Levy(his about 70% to blame imo) but yet again the players get away with little to no blame.
Same players Dier, Davies, Sanchez etc yet 4 different managers get the blame.

DanielJohnCosta · Jan 20, 2023

Russ1201 said:
Amazes me how everyone blames Conte or Levy(his about 70% to blame imo) but yet again the players get away with little to no blame.
Same players Dier, Davies, Sanchez etc yet 4 different managers get the blame.

Doesn’t help when conte comes out and praises dier calling him world class

ljinko888 · Jan 20, 2023

Obviously Levy and the board are the biggest problem. This has been a general constant throughout different managerial tenures and only Poch (and to a point Redknapp) made it less noticeable when they were in charge by playing young talents and attacking football which is the minimum fans want.

However when I criticise Conte it is based on the fact he is being paid a fortune and yet seems really one dimensional. His system plays into the weaknesses of our squad. A tactical manager whose sole tactic relies on poor wing backs to be the team's outlets going forward. A defensive minded manager who has made us probably the most fragile team defensively in the league. It's not working and while I agree he is handicapped in a way he was not at other clubs, he still has players warming the bench that cost a fair amount of money that don't get selected to start as his favourites flounder. Richarlison and Bissouma are ready made premier league players already. If they're not fit to play in Conte's system from the start maybe the problem is the system?

Fact of the matter is Eddie Howe took over Newcastle roughly the same time. And while they got the huge Saudi takeover shortly after they haven't actually spent that huge as of yet. They're at the point Man City were when Bellamy and Barry were key players. They don't even have their Adebayor up front let alone a Tevez. The crux of the team is still quite similar to what Howe inherited. So why are they able to climb so fast so soon? I think the new owner feel good factor helped (as it will when/if we get new owners) but I also think Howe is doing a far better job to get the best out of what he inherited than Conte.

SpartanSpur · Jan 20, 2023

Trix said:
I find it ridiculous that fans are buying into this media bollocks of "you can't back him if he won't commit." The club hold an option on his contract for another 12 months, and you don't go to work day in day out fighting your boss tooth and nail to improve your working environment if you want out. You just don't!

Exactly!

Plus if you buy players of suitable quality there will always be a use for them from future managers anyway. Ndombele/Lo Celso etc... did not fail due to managerial style or preferences. They just weren't vetted properly on their suitability to the PL from a physical or mental perspective.

Look at players like Vertonghen and Dembele who signed for AVB and flourished under Poch for example.

Unlikely but if we went and signed Gvardiol, Skriniar or Ndicka for example I'm sure a manager would find a use for them, certainly over the current incumbents! Porro is young enough to be adapted into an attacking RB in a 4 if required I'm sure.

FinnYid · Jan 20, 2023

Trix said:
He's not devoid of blame, BIGGER PICTURE!!!

If the club came out today and said " we got it wrong with Conte, we want a project manager who plays to X philosophy and we are going to get the players in order to do that and compete I wouldn't be against them doing it.

They aren't though because their is no succession plan, there is no long term strategy and there isn't anyone leading the club competent enough to do so.

You want Conte gone, but unless you want this same shit again in a years time replacing the manager is pointless.

BIGGER PICTURE!!!

I agree with a lot of that, however I see Conte as a symptom of that lack of long term planning (like most of our "winner" appointments) and if we are to ever have a plan and philosophy, he needs to go. He can't be the plan, he is wrong man, in a wrong place and in a wrong time.

Russ1201 · Jan 20, 2023

DanielJohnCosta said:
Doesn’t help when conte comes out and praises dier calling him world class

Seriously getting fed up with Conte praising how well the team played.
No wonder they playing so bad when they know that Conte will keep praising them and won't drop them.
I understand that maybe he doesn't want to damage the players already fragile confidence but sometimes the truth needs to be said.

mil1lion · Jan 20, 2023

DanielJohnCosta said:
Doesn’t help when conte comes out and praises dier calling him world class

Why not? He has to try and motivate his players because that's what he has to work with. He has dropped Dier a few times for Lenglet so it's not like he is happy with him. It would be Jose like to throw him under a bus.

Archibald&Crooks · Jan 20, 2023

DanielJohnCosta said:
Doesn’t help when conte comes out and praises dier calling him world class

If it doesn't help, how doesn't it help. How does it matter to the degree that it 'doesn't help'

Spurzinho · Jan 20, 2023

Russ1201 said:
Amazes me how everyone blames Conte or Levy(his about 70% to blame imo) but yet again the players get away with little to no blame.
Same players Dier, Davies, Sanchez etc yet 4 different managers get the blame.

What can they do? They don't pick themselves. I genuinely believe that Dier, Lloris, Davies & PEH are doing as much as they can. Son isn't deliberately playing terribly. Royal doesn't mean to be useless as a wing back. He was signed by Nuno as a right back/right sided centre back in a three. I don't think the likes of Doherty and Perisic are phoning it in its just that one was never that good to begin with and the other one is 33 and looking it as well as adjusting to playing a much more physical league than he's used to. I think they're all feeling the pain of their performances and I say that because I've been watching Spurs for over thirty years and I've seen some absolute chancers and donkeys in that time. This bunch are trying but they're limited, low on morale and probably don't have much confidence in what Conte is trying to get them to do.

Conte is to blame because he refuses to change in order to get the best out of the players he's got but also refuses to resign in protest at not getting the players that he needs. Its entirely up to him that he's here working with what he has and not doing a very good job. Daniel Levy is to blame for the whole calamity that is the management of the footballing side of the operation. We all know that.

FinnYid · Jan 20, 2023

Russ1201 said:
Amazes me how everyone blames Conte or Levy(his about 70% to blame imo) but yet again the players get away with little to no blame.
Same players Dier, Davies, Sanchez etc yet 4 different managers get the blame.

Oh those haven't had their share of blame? Yes they have, some like Romero who makes his share of mistake hasn't though.

Archibald&Crooks · Jan 20, 2023

Spurzinho said:
We all know that.

Apparently not

ralphs bald spot · Jan 20, 2023

just a thought and trying to add a little bit of levity how can it be a painful rebuild if everybody seems to want it ?

Russ1201 said:
Seriously getting fed up with Conte praising how well the team played.
No wonder they playing so bad when they know that Conte will keep praising them and won't drop them.
I understand that maybe he doesn't want to damage the players already fragile confidence but sometimes the truth needs to be said.

to be fair I thought last night was a marked improvement despite the result

double0 · Jan 20, 2023

Teddy Klinsmann said:
He talks about needing experience. How experienced is arsenal back line?

He also talks about recommendations and length of time . Players can fall off the cliff and when you fail to realise and act accordingly the club follows regardless of manager.

Stamford · Jan 20, 2023

FinnYid said:
I agree with a lot of that, however I see Conte as a symptom of that lack of long term planning (like most of our "winner" appointments) and if we are to ever have a plan and philosophy, he needs to go. He can't be the plan, he is wrong man, in a wrong place and in a wrong time.

But there is no plan. So what are you going to say when the next guy encounters the same issue??

Russ1201 · Jan 20, 2023

Spurzinho said:
What can they do? They don't pick themselves. I genuinely believe that Dier, Lloris, Davies & PEH are doing as much as they can. Son isn't deliberately playing terribly. Royal doesn't mean to be useless as a wing back. He was signed by Nuno as a right back/right sided centre back in a three. I don't think the likes of Doherty and Perisic are phoning it in its just that one was never that good to begin with and the other one is 33 and looking it as well as adjusting to playing a much more physical league than he's used to. I think they're all feeling the pain of their performances and I say that because I've been watching Spurs for over thirty years and I've seen some absolute chancers and donkeys in that time. This bunch are trying but they're limited, low on morale and probably don't have much confidence in what Conte is trying to get them to do.

Conte is to blame because he refuses to change in order to get the best out of the players he's got but also refuses to resign in protest at not getting the players that he needs. Its entirely up to him that he's here working with what he has and not doing a very good job. Daniel Levy is to blame for the whole calamity that is the management of the footballing side of the operation. We all know that.

Can't really blame Conte for some of the comical defending every game by our defenders. Doesn't matter who he picks they make clangers to cost the match.
Ultimately in my opinion its on the players and that tight that Levy.

FinnYid · Jan 20, 2023

Stamford said:
But there is no plan. So what are you going to say when the next guy encounters the same issue??

There will never be a plan with Conte. If we are to have one, he needs to go. We can't build a lasting philosophy in game that belongs to history and is opposite of clubs tradition. There is nothing to build in there, we can back him all we want, all we can, and we still won't be moving anywhere.

Trix · Jan 20, 2023

ljinko888 said:
Obviously Levy and the board are the biggest problem. This has been a general constant throughout different managerial tenures and only Poch (and to a point Redknapp) made it less noticeable when they were in charge by playing young talents and attacking football which is the minimum fans want.

However when I criticise Conte it is based on the fact he is being paid a fortune and yet seems really one dimensional. His system plays into the weaknesses of our squad. A tactical manager whose sole tactic relies on poor wing backs to be the team's outlets going forward. A defensive minded manager who has made us probably the most fragile team defensively in the league. It's not working and while I agree he is handicapped in a way he was not at other clubs, he still has players warming the bench that cost a fair amount of money that don't get selected to start as his favourites flounder. Richarlison and Bissouma are ready made premier league players already. If they're not fit to play in Conte's system from the start maybe the problem is the system?

Fact of the matter is Eddie Howe took over Newcastle roughly the same time. And while they got the huge Saudi takeover shortly after they haven't actually spent that huge as of yet. They're at the point Man City were when Bellamy and Barry were key players. They don't even have their Adebayor up front let alone a Tevez. The crux of the team is still quite similar to what Howe inherited. So why are they able to climb so fast so soon? I think the new owner feel good factor helped (as it will when/if we get new owners) but I also think Howe is doing a far better job to get the best out of what he inherited than Conte.

Howe was a great appointment because they got exactly the sort of manager they need right now. The question is is he able to get them over the line for a title or will they need a Conte type for that?

FinnYid said:
I agree with a lot of that, however I see Conte as a symptom of that lack of long term planning (like most of our "winner" appointments) and if we are to ever have a plan and philosophy, he needs to go. He can't be the plan, he is wrong man, in a wrong place and in a wrong time.

Right so if Conte is sacked what do you think you are going to get? Do you think you are going to get the type of manager you want, and if you do do you think he'll be backed to achieve that?

RuskyM · Jan 20, 2023

One thing that gets ignored in the "it's the players" is it was these players who only conceded eight goals in the fourteen games post Burnley last season (compared to nearly two a game now). You can't claim Conte deserves credit for their performances then and then not criticism for their performances now.

Frankly I just want a manager whose playstyle is such that we don't have to spend every post-match scrutinising individual performances, as if you can play a perfect game with imperfect people, and results feel more like steps to progression rather than hitting our head against the wall and hoping the wall breaks.

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