The Mauricio Pochettino thread

Rob · Sep 25, 2019

Spurrific said:
Calling people ridiculous is childish, bollocks. You're ridiculous if you can't objectively evaluate his, and the squad's, performances since the turn of the year.

The ridiculousness is not about recognising the fact that we've been crap or that Poch has some of the blame. It's about calling for him to go and talking about replacements.

C-oops · Sep 25, 2019

The question should not have anything to do with the fact of what has happened, what Poch has done to change the club, what he has done to improve players. All in the past. The question is, is Poch able to turn around our alarming slump in form that he has presided over and is 50% the architect of? As it stands, with the constantly changing tactics, the shiteshow performances by the players, the rumblings of player unrest, the players who want out and were wanted out, Poch being so negative in public and as we now know, negative behind the scenes ( Trix last night) , Im not so sure.

JimmyG2 · Sep 25, 2019

Gb160 said:
You've gotta see the irony in you quoting Bill Nicholson, a man who is remembered because he was a winner Jimmy.

Yes but here he's talking about not winning, but aiming high and striving
and so is Danny Blanchflower:

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory,
it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the the other lot,
not waiting for them to die of boredom."

dimiSpur · Sep 25, 2019

nasescoba1985 said:
This is the mentality I’m taking about. Overachievers in what ? Getting to a few finals ? Ffs mate. When do you accept that getting to countless finals, but not actually winning anything becomes a non achievement? This isn’t 8 years ago dude. We are far into the project and as a club in general where we should be expecting more silverware on the table. These current group of players should of achieved a lot more sorry. Getting to the CL final was a fantastic, but it wasn’t an achievement. We didn’t bloody win anything.

When we get rid of Poch, and we're meandering in 7th again, you'll see exactly how we're overachieving. I think you all have short memories. We wanted Poch to establish us as CL regulars. He's done that. Now all of a sudden he's poor because we aren't winning silverware.

What silverware do you want? The league? Because that's impossible, not just because of our stature, but because I don't know if you've noticed, you actually have to win 36 out of 38 games to win the league with Liverpool & City in the mix. Do you want the CL? Because we were pretty darn close to winning that. Or did losing the final mean he's a failure? Because one game is a heck of a fine line by which to judge a manager.

Or do you want the Carabao/FA Cup? Because in so far as I'm aware, managers that have won those trophies and fail to achieve anything else, end up sacked. Would you rather finish 6th and be Carabao Cup winners? Or CL regulars and gradually build to something more?

You've all lost your heads.

King of Otters · Sep 25, 2019

Reading the comments here, it’s sad, but understandable, to see how much the lack of silverware has affected the club over the past few years. We don’t have a divine right to win anything, and are certainly are a long way in terms of prestige and resources from winning the league or the CL, despite having come close to both under Poch.

That leaves the domestic cups as realistic targets for a club of our level. Are people really so bothered by our failure to win either of these that they’re willing to throw our best manager in a generation under the bus because of it? And replace him with Mourinho of all people, who most recently won two second rate cups with an unlimited budget at Utd?

Hakkz · Sep 25, 2019

jonnyrotten said:
Before everyone starts wanking off over those 2019 losses stats - they apply to ALL competitions not just to the PL. Guess what, we were in a lot more competitions than some of the others on the list. It's 10 PL losses not 15 (yes, still not good enough).

Clearly all is not well with the squad. But there have been mitigating circumstances. We were fighting for the title (and then top 4) as well as the champions league on a threadbare squad decimated by injury. Our summer signings have mainly been injured, while a number of our key squad members have either wanted to leave or at least been unsettled.

Given that we have just had our largest levels of investment in the squad under Poch, should we at the very least give him the season to integrate our two record signings into the team?

That depends entirely about how convinced Levy is by Poch's plan to turn it around.

JCRD · Sep 25, 2019

C-oops said:
The question should not have anything to do with the fact of what has happened, what Poch has done to change the club, what he has done to improve players. All in the past. The question is, is Poch able to turn around our alarming slump in form that he has presided over and is 50% the architect of? As it stands, with the constantly changing tactics, the shiteshow performances by the players, the rumblings of player unrest, the players who want out and were wanted out, Poch being so negative in public and as we now know, negative behind the scenes ( Trix last night) , Im not so sure.

I agree with you but the real question is does Poch have the motivation to spend the time to change things around. It seems like he will need a couple of windows to change it around. Its akin to the start of Poch's tenure, he (and Levy too) need to get rid of the deadwood asap and then to bring in replacements... that takes time and effort... does he want to do all that again? Poch has the look of someone who is burnt out and tired from it all... but thats just my perception

Gassin's finest · Sep 25, 2019

Johnny J said:
Managers change all the time. The idea that all our best - and highly paid - players will leave just because Poch goes is naive in my view.

Well I didn't say that though.

thecook · Sep 25, 2019

JimmyG2 said:
Yes but here he's talking about not winning, but aiming high and striving
and so is Danny Blanchflower:

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory,
it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the the other lot,
not waiting for them to die of boredom."

But we're neither winning nor playing the game with any style, so how is this quote relevant? We're certainly boring though, is that what you mean?

hellava_tough · Sep 25, 2019

Poch has done so much for us and too be honest, he'll go down as a bit of a legend at the club whatever happens.

But this 'credit in the bank' argument isn't really relevant.

The real question is 'Have the players stopped listening to Poch' or 'Is Poch now unable to motivate the players'.

Poch could be doing everything right, but if the players are bored of him now (and that might not be anyone's fault) then he'll need to move on to the next job.

That said, only club insiders will know if this is the case; it's a decision that Levy will have to make.

As fans, we love our club and by and large love Poch; but none of us really know exactly what's going on. We have to trust Levy and his advisors on this one.

Gb160 · Sep 25, 2019

JimmyG2 said:
Yes but here he's talking about not winning, but aiming high and striving
and so is Danny Blanchflower:

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory,
it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the the other lot,
not waiting for them to die of boredom."

Poch definitely should have a read of the DB quote.

nasescoba1985 · Sep 25, 2019

dimiSpur said:
When we get rid of Poch, and we're meandering in 7th again, you'll see exactly how we're overachieving. I think you all have short memories. We wanted Poch to establish us as CL regulars. He's done that. Now all of a sudden he's poor because we aren't winning silverware.

What silverware do you want? The league? Because that's impossible, not just because of our stature, but because I don't know if you've noticed, you actually have to win 36 out of 38 games to win the league with Liverpool & City in the mix. Do you want the CL? Because we were pretty darn close to winning that. Or did losing the final mean he's a failure? Because one game is a heck of a fine line by which to judge a manager.

Or do you want the Carabao/FA Cup? Because in so far as I'm aware, managers that have won those trophies and fail to achieve anything else, end up sacked. Would you rather finish 6th and be Carabao Cup winners? Or CL regulars and gradually build to something more?

You've all lost your heads.

OK ,so let’s plod along all our lives winning absolutely nothing because supporters like yourself accept failure. The CL final means nothing to me anymore mate because Liverpool are the European champions. All that day does is remind me of how much of an unbelievable opportunity the club had to finally achieve something huge in what was the biggest game of all our lives, yet we limped over the line like a bunch of lost puppies. I have never criticised Poch, but if you can’t see there are serious problems at the club then you are in complete denial dude. 14 Prem losses in 2019 ( more than Bournemouth, Brighton and Watford ) how Is that acceptable? 1 league cup in 20 years under Levy’s leadership, how is that acceptable ? If anything, you are the one turning your nose up at winning a domestic trophy. What I would give for Spurs to win a domestic trophy this season and finally get the monkey off our backs. Winning trophies usually breeds success mate. We are not Wigan here, we are Spurs and in a complete different stratosphere to those clubs you mentioned. The game is all about glory, it’s in our motto ffs dude. Getting to the CL final and Fa cup final, but losing every single season is not overachieving, it’s failing mate. The quicker supporters like you accept this, the better.

mattyspurs · Sep 25, 2019

dimiSpur said:
When we get rid of Poch, and we're meandering in 7th again, you'll see exactly how we're overachieving. I think you all have short memories. We wanted Poch to establish us as CL regulars. He's done that. Now all of a sudden he's poor because we aren't winning silverware.

What silverware do you want? The league? Because that's impossible, not just because of our stature, but because I don't know if you've noticed, you actually have to win 36 out of 38 games to win the league with Liverpool & City in the mix. Do you want the CL? Because we were pretty darn close to winning that. Or did losing the final mean he's a failure? Because one game is a heck of a fine line by which to judge a manager.

Or do you want the Carabao/FA Cup? Because in so far as I'm aware, managers that have won those trophies and fail to achieve anything else, end up sacked. Would you rather finish 6th and be Carabao Cup winners? Or CL regulars and gradually build to something more?

You've all lost your heads.

Why does it have to be one or the other though Dimi? Why can't it be both? We have been in positions in the last 5 seasons to have won a trophy and get Top 4.

Gassin's finest · Sep 25, 2019

JimmyG2 said:
Yes but here he's talking about not winning, but aiming high and striving
and so is Danny Blanchflower:

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory,
it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the the other lot,
not waiting for them to die of boredom."

Blanchflower wasn't saying that the performance was more important than winning. He was saying that the game isn't about winning by any cost (aka parking the bus, gamesmanship, etc etc) but about winning in style.

hellava_tough · Sep 25, 2019

Two things spring to mind:

Firstly, in my opinion I think Poch will be gone within 6 months. Could be wrong obviously, but we'll see.

Secondly, it's a real shame that it's come to this. 18 months ago things were good; it's almost like Poch (and a few others at the club) hit the self-destruct button.

It really didn't need to come to this!

hellava_tough · Sep 25, 2019

Btw, this doesn't sound good:

Spurs must overcome 'agendas' in squad

Manager Mauricio Pochettino says Tottenham need time to overcome "different agendas in the squad" after their Carabao Cup exit at Colchester.

www.bbc.co.uk

HildoSpur · Sep 25, 2019

I love Poch. He needs to go though. Better he go sooner rather than later rather than hanging on while everybody turns on him (which will happen).

It does not make me happy to say this but honestly I think we are beyond the point where he can turn it around if he has lost the support of most of the team. It's over.

Gassin's finest · Sep 25, 2019

Bloody hell, I'm glad we didn't have some of you lot in the trenches.

Hakkz · Sep 25, 2019

JimmyG2 said:
Yes but here he's talking about not winning, but aiming high and striving
and so is Danny Blanchflower:

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory,
it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the the other lot,
not waiting for them to die of boredom."

Why are we doing exactly this then?

stevenurse · Sep 25, 2019

jonnyrotten said:
Before everyone starts wanking off over those 2019 losses stats - they apply to ALL competitions not just to the PL. Guess what, we were in a lot more competitions than some of the others on the list. It's 10 PL losses not 15 (yes, still not good enough).

Clearly all is not well with the squad. But there have been mitigating circumstances. We were fighting for the title (and then top 4) as well as the champions league on a threadbare squad decimated by injury. Our summer signings have mainly been injured, while a number of our key squad members have either wanted to leave or at least been unsettled.

Given that we have just had our largest levels of investment in the squad under Poch, should we at the very least give him the season to integrate our two record signings into the team?

But injuries don't mitigate against the tactics/formation/selection/style of play etc. Especially 2ben he's going on about Madrid. He should be so fucking lucky. He'd last 6 months there in this guise

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