Jose Mourinho

easley91 · Nov 23, 2019

After watching the City v Chelsea game it was even clearer to me that Jose stopped us playing short from goal kicks and set pieces in and around our box. Small detail, but makes a huge difference. The amount of times we conceded from passing the ball after playing out from the back must be high.

Sevens · Nov 23, 2019

NEVILLEB said:
Danny Murphy is right.

Mourinho succeeded today by going back to the formation and personnel that Pochettino used to play. That’s not a good reflection on Poch.

Poch never played a similar system though. What Mourinho did was play a balanced side and play to the strengths of the players. He played with two fast wide men. He had the central midfield sit a bit deeper, which opened up space for the attacking players and we played a lot more direct than under Poch. If you have a keeper who isn't that great playing it out from the back but who can good long balls then the obvious thing to do is have the keeper play longer balls. Poch just stuck with what he intended irrespective of the players. That for me is a key difference.

I always felt that Poch's best season for us was when he played 5-3-2 with Alli and Kane up front (Alli's best for us too). What was noticeable today was how Davies tucked in. When their keeper had the ball we lined up 4-4-2. Soon as we got possession we reverted to a 3-4-2-1. That kind of flexibility was nice to see. As was Mourinho willingness to make earlier subs.

tototoner · Nov 23, 2019

This advert is starting to grow on me now

NEVILLEB · Nov 23, 2019

Sevens said:
Poch never played a similar system though. What Mourinho did was play a balanced side and play to the strengths of the players. He played with two fast wide men. He had the central midfield sit a bit deeper, which opened up space for the attacking players and we played a lot more direct than under Poch. If you have a keeper who isn't that great playing it out from the back but who can good long balls then the obvious thing to do is have the keeper play longer balls. Poch just stuck with what he intended irrespective of the players. That for me is a key difference.

I always felt that Poch's best season for us was when he played 5-3-2 with Alli and Kane up front (Alli's best for us too). What was noticeable today was how Davies tucked in. When their keeper had the ball we lined up 4-4-2. Soon as we got possession we reverted to a 3-4-2-1. That kind of flexibility was nice to see. As was Mourinho willingness to make earlier subs.

i disagree

Joely · Nov 23, 2019

Interesting to note Mourinho's comments in the post match press conference regarding asking the players to do a job that is suited to their individual qualities. I think this is something which we may have lost in the latter stages of Poch reign.

Will be interesting to see if there's further evidence of that from Mourinho further down the line once he starts stamping his mark on the team. Wouldn't be surprised in the short to medium term he keeps things simple and works with a style of play to get the most of the player's he has but I'd imagine at some point he'll want to transition strongly towards his own ideas and that's where it may get interesting.

Yiddo100 · Nov 23, 2019

easley91 said:
After watching the City v Chelsea game it was even clearer to me that Jose stopped us playing short from goal kicks and set pieces in and around our box. Small detail, but makes a huge difference. The amount of times we conceded from passing the ball after playing out from the back must be high.

It’s not even if we concede from it, it’s when we are playing round the back knowing Lloris can it pass, he then smashes the ball out of play which then gets the opposition crowd up

slartibartfast · Nov 23, 2019

Yiddo100 said:
It’s not even if we concede from it, it’s when we are playing round the back knowing Lloris can it pass, he then smashes the ball out of play which then gets the opposition crowd up

Agree. Does my head in that this is being portrayed as some kind of genius move, to stop fkin around at the back, when anyone with half a brain has been watching this calamity for about 3 or 4 seasons begging us (and every other team in the world just about) to stop being so fkin stupid. The benefits do not outway the disadvantages.
Man City Chelsea today was 2 of the top teams in professional football doing shit that if your under 8s or your pub team did it you'd be fkin livid and looking for new players.
Theres more than 1 way to skin a cat.

Joely · Nov 23, 2019

Sevens said:
Poch never played a similar system though. What Mourinho did was play a balanced side and play to the strengths of the players. He played with two fast wide men. He had the central midfield sit a bit deeper, which opened up space for the attacking players and we played a lot more direct than under Poch. If you have a keeper who isn't that great playing it out from the back but who can good long balls then the obvious thing to do is have the keeper play longer balls. Poch just stuck with what he intended irrespective of the players. That for me is a key difference.

I think there's something in this. Playing out the back is Poch's way but i just don't think towards the end we had enough players good enough at the back to pull this off. Lloris can look very dodgy on the ball and apart from Jan and Toby, not really that many that I'd say are extremely comfortable on the ball apart from say Foyth. When we had Walker and a fit Rose, their pace and ability to carry the ball up field kind of made up for their lack of ability on the ball so if the ball was played to them at the back, they had something to get them out of jail. Likes of Davies and Aurier don't have that and Trippier was decent on the ball when he wasn't pressurised but not good when pressed or harried in imo.

ljinko888 · Nov 23, 2019

NEVILLEB said:
Danny Murphy is right.

Mourinho succeeded today by going back to the formation and personnel that Pochettino used to play. That’s not a good reflection on Poch.

It's not as simple as that. Look at what happened after Mourinho got sacked at United. They won the very next game 5-1, won about nine in a row thereafter and Ole in fact broke a club record for most wins in the opening ten league games or something like that.

The difference between a new manager coming in now is a new manager is precisely that. A new face, a new voice, a new relationship. Everyone starts from scratch.

Now look at them in the last six months. We've picked up more points than them. They struggle to score goals. When Ole got the job permanently in April he had an amazing record in those five months and United fans felt vindicated, everyone in the media said it was the right call, whereas now they probably think it was premature. How could a manager of Molde and Cardiff get the Manchester United job?

Similarly saying after one game Poch's demise was him forgetting his own formula is nonsense. The reality is he probably tried to replicate his formula and it no longer responded hence why he was tinkering so much by the end for something to stick.

Players like Rose, Dier, Wanyama got too many injuries. Players like Eriksen and Alderweireld were starting to get itchy feet. Dele had the first blip period in his career which was bound to happen. And yes, Harry Kane stopped being the bulldozing force he was largely down to injury. These were the players who were staples of the Poch formula when it was working fabulously. You can afford to have one or two drop off but too many did. And I don't think because the players threw the towel in. Look at how many have paid tribute. Davies said he'll move onto bigger and better things. It's just once he could no longer pick them up he was doomed.

Klopp had that at Dortmund. He didn't forget what brought him success. Things just ran its course. The only difference being he was allowed to finish the season before it was best to close that chapter.

Colonel_Klinck · Nov 23, 2019

Jose is being very very humble at the moment. All about the players and not him. I really hope that continues. I can like this version especially if we win things. The train wreck Jose is not the one I want. Also if we play with 4 attacking players like that I’ll be very happy. We’ll trouble any team with those 4 players running at them.

rossdapep · Nov 24, 2019

Many think Sanchez and Foyth are doomed under Mourinho. Just remember Mourinho played a 19 year old Varane, trusted him and loved him as a player.

I think they'll both have every chance under Mourinho.

werty · Nov 24, 2019

WhiteDane said:
That is not my point. Lucas in our only natural RW in the whole squad. And Poch didn’t play him.

Lucas didn't play as a RW today.

Deleted member 29446 · Nov 24, 2019

werty said:
Lucas didn't play as a RW today.

Oh come on ffs. You know what I mean

Marauder · Nov 24, 2019

richard_gleeson said:
Sanchez played well today apart from the goal

Yeah, he only cost us one goal today (which turned the game from comfortable to squeaky bum time). Apart from that he was great!

whitesocks · Nov 24, 2019

Long ball worked against Wham as they were sloppy and nervous and we would often pick up the second ball.
But Kane is no Drogba - hoof it long to him and most competent defences are not troubled. He is out muscled and out jumped.
Kane is not a traditional striker - it's his strength and weakness. In the buildup, it has to be played to his feet.
MP worked this out last year and it's why we bought Llorente. I'm not sure why he was allowed to go.

Marauder · Nov 24, 2019

whitesocks said:
Long ball worked against Wham as they were sloppy and nervous and we would often pick up the second ball.
But Kane is no Drogba - hoof it long to him and most competent defences are not troubled. He is out muscled and out jumped.
Kane is not a traditional striker - it's his strength and weakness. In the buildup, it has to be played to his feet.
MP worked this out last year and it's why we bought Llorente. I'm not sure why he was allowed to go.

So that we can get Ibrahimovic in, innit. Magic. ?

Ben1 · Nov 24, 2019

whitesocks said:
Long ball worked against Wham as they were sloppy and nervous and we would often pick up the second ball.
But Kane is no Drogba - hoof it long to him and most competent defences are not troubled. He is out muscled and out jumped.
Kane is not a traditional striker - it's his strength and weakness. In the buildup, it has to be played to his feet.
MP worked this out last year and it's why we bought Llorente. I'm not sure why he was allowed to go.

It's not his strongest way of playing, but I don't think he gets outmuscled and out jumped as easily as claimed.

Also, I don't even think it's about Kane, it's just getting the ball up pitch quicker, even on second balls that we haven't won. Added benefit of reducing chances of a defensive calamity.

Pellshek · Nov 24, 2019

whitesocks said:
Long ball worked against Wham as they were sloppy and nervous and we would often pick up the second ball.
But Kane is no Drogba - hoof it long to him and most competent defences are not troubled. He is out muscled and out jumped.
Kane is not a traditional striker - it's his strength and weakness. In the buildup, it has to be played to his feet.
MP worked this out last year and it's why we bought Llorente. I'm not sure why he was allowed to go.

Kane is not a traditional striker if by "traditional" you mean Ian Rush, Gary Lineker, Michael Owen, Ian Wright or Sergio Aguero.

But he's very much "traditional" if we're talking Alan Shearer, Marco van Basten, Gabriel Batitstuta, Mark Hughes, Thomas Mueller, and even Didier Drogba himself. Those guys are no less quintessentially - or traditionally - strikers than the other group. Just a different variety of the species.

Hotspur_Hero · Nov 24, 2019

ljinko888 said:
It's not as simple as that. Look at what happened after Mourinho got sacked at United. They won the very next game 5-1, won about nine in a row thereafter and Ole in fact broke a club record for most wins in the opening ten league games or something like that.

The difference between a new manager coming in now is a new manager is precisely that. A new face, a new voice, a new relationship. Everyone starts from scratch.

Now look at them in the last six months. We've picked up more points than them. They struggle to score goals. When Ole got the job permanently in April he had an amazing record in those five months and United fans felt vindicated, everyone in the media said it was the right call, whereas now they probably think it was premature. How could a manager of Molde and Cardiff get the Manchester United job?

Similarly saying after one game Poch's demise was him forgetting his own formula is nonsense. The reality is he probably tried to replicate his formula and it no longer responded hence why he was tinkering so much by the end for something to stick.

Players like Rose, Dier, Wanyama got too many injuries. Players like Eriksen and Alderweireld were starting to get itchy feet. Dele had the first blip period in his career which was bound to happen. And yes, Harry Kane stopped being the bulldozing force he was largely down to injury. These were the players who were staples of the Poch formula when it was working fabulously. You can afford to have one or two drop off but too many did. And I don't think because the players threw the towel in. Look at how many have paid tribute. Davies said he'll move onto bigger and better things. It's just once he could no longer pick them up he was doomed.

Klopp had that at Dortmund. He didn't forget what brought him success. Things just ran its course. The only difference being he was allowed to finish the season before it was best to close that chapter.

Honestly I think it all went to crap when Dembele left. The WC last summer was part of it, but really Dembele getting too old and too injured was what turned the tides and moved us away from our old style to the diamond everyone hates. He left in January and we never recovered. I know he wasn't playing a ton before that, but our old system of letting Moussa pretty much boss the entire midfield areas by himself was gone and we never adapted. Sissoko emulated some of the magic, but only Dembele was able to so effortless transition us from defense to attack.

allatsea · Nov 24, 2019

richard_gleeson said:
The only time Moura let himself down today was that poor finish. Normally he buries them.

But what about his acceleration to finish Son’s pass/cross ? Magic.

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