Jose Mourinho

Goobers · Jul 5, 2020

I honestly don’t think he knows what to expect from this squad.
A squad in decline, without key areas not being addressed, in poor form for 20 months.
the think that irks me slightly is that how ever we finish José has all his excuses from the previous regime. It’s not on him. Fair enough but we don’t have a scooby doo how he will get on. I don’t think we can afford to fall down the pecking order for too long but I think there are some smartcookies in the PL that are strenghtening for the longer term.

leelee · Jul 5, 2020

There are many who would want to play under Jose. Play in London at the best stadium in he world and train at the finest facility in the world.

The problem is (and always has been) if Levy is prepared to pay the going rate. I'm so pissed off when I hear levy quoting top dollar for our deadwood then expecting to pay below valuation for someone else's star players.

Jose is the man. But whether he can work with a chairman like Levy remains to be seen. I doubt it though.

fishhhandaricecake · Jul 5, 2020

Albertbarich said:
Hi, first post so please be gentle.

I think that the issue is 100% with Levy and Lewis. Jose whilst in my opinion the total wrong man for the job isn't at fault for that.

The club needs to decide what it wants to be. Look at us from afar. Best football stadium in the world, huge Nike kit deal, Englands superstar upfront. Also and this is silly but its true. You know the covers we currently have over the seats? They're pretty uniform throughout the league except sponsors and colours. Compare our sponsors. Its not full of unknown Asian betting companies but has the logos of Audi, Cadburys, William Hill. Big brands known over the world. Top that off with the worlds most famous football manager .

Everything to the outsider screams massive club up there with the madrids and Barcelonas of this world.

And then look at how we run our football team. As successful as levy has been off the field on it he has been a failure. We have grown yes but its been a slow painful process without trophies and seen careers killed.

He has to make a choice. If he wants the jose Mourinho superstar aura then you have to give jose mourinho what he always got when he won titles. Lots and lots of money. I agree with those who think jose is past his best but he could deliver trophies if we give him the cash. Look at united. Half a billion quid to get a second place and two secondary trophies. Don't get me wrong id take that but I think we all know and accept that jose Mourinho isn't going to get that cash here.

Whats the alternative?. Get back to what brought us to the dance. Invest in young players. Id love Levy to stay out of footballing matters in which he has zero business being involved in. We have to get in a proper director of football. Copy that dortmund model. The dof has to have a large extensive scouting team that he chooses and he also should choose the coach.

Tottenham fans are pretty patient. 19 years with one carling cup. Manager after manager screwed over in the transfer market all the while he charges the highest prices in Europe and treats the football team that were all here for as a nuisance in his brand building so I think we would accept a model based on investing in exciting youngsters and logical football decisions.

Right now though were doing nothing that makes sense. Starve our best manager for decades of backing in the transfer market. Finally invest but sack him before he gets a chance to bed them in and then hire someone who has a philosophy that doesn't match with yours or the fans whatsoever. Its baffling. Add to the awful social media presence ( boasting constantly about the stadium we can't visit a day after another loss isn't clever) and you have a club without a solid philosophy or plan.

Enic aren't selling and even if they were the money that they would ask for is so insane we would only get the ultimate in souless investment fund types so I dont see the point in screaming levy out but we can have a voice and let him know that this isn't good enough.

Finally just a reminder before anyone defends him. Only a few months ago he did an interview telling the fans to not be obsessed with transfers and spending money and not everyone can win trophies.

The highest paid chairman in the Premier league charging the highest ticket prices in the world said that. That says all you need to know about his priorities

Incredible post! Couldn’t have summed it up better and exactly how I feel.

Wsussexspur · Jul 5, 2020

spursfan77 said:
I couldn’t face reading that yesterday. It’s a fair overview though.

I just hope there’s a plan, but I just can’t help but feel we are operating on the fly. It all needs reorganising behind the scenes, we all know that. We haven’t replaced McDermott yet and the fact that we didn’t have a replacement lined up makes me think it’s organised chaos behind the scenes. There’s no reports of us looking to do anything there either, which makes me think that nothing is happening on that front. If there were, we would of heard about it.

Probably find that Levy is going to take over McDermott’s role himself

emiley heskey · Jul 5, 2020

spursfan77 said:
Im probably forgetting an obvious one, but when was the last successful Italian manager in English football? Mancini I guess. Usually they don’t travel well though do they?

Antonio Conte, Claudio Ranieri

fishhhandaricecake · Jul 5, 2020

rossdapep said:
We do what we've always done. Sell high and then scramble around for bargains.

Now you can find bargains but there as to be a strategy. Foyth was a player with very limited professional experience, Aurier was an unwanted player at PSG - no consistency or cohesion in that plan.

The only time Levy really was proactive and spent big was when he signed Ndombele and that's because we were getting the CL money.

Transfer policy and way the football club has and always will be under levy a mess and very under par. Jose said when he came in the club had all the set-up to be successful but Jose or any other manager will not be successful for us with levy so heavily involved In the football side of things and transfers etc, he suffocates us.

Sure he can get a few good deals here and there but we hang onto too many players for far too long because levy overcharges to sell them so we end up just keeping crap players and then in terms of transfers in he try’s to be clever and get bargains and opportunities but there is a reason that buying a tv on eBay is £200 less and don’t be surprised when you get home and the screen is a funny colour and buttons are missing whereas I’d you’d paid full or near full price you’d actually have got a decent product. Added to that levy drags out transfers endlessly to save pennies which means manages don’t have players they want in in time to work with them and properly plan knowing the kind of squad they will have.

sorry but I feel sorry for Jose, I’m not sure he’s the right fit exactly but who the fuck is, levy has no fucking clue about football, literally zero, he’s a good business man but he’s not a football man and his actions on the football side are constantly at the detriment to the the footballing success of the manager and team. Until levy goes or steps away from the football side of things we have 0 chance of success. Poch was a miracle worker and didn’t get properly backed, Jose has a mess of a squad and also won’t be backed. The only hope is that Jose is better at identifying players and forcing the issue on ones to get and not get compared to other managers just rolling over or having their hands tied and accepting Nelson & Saha or Njie & Janseen, we have to hope that with Jose’s experience and reading of the game and vast contacts that he can he’ll us to get the right signings and persuade levy to sign off on them if not then we all know where this is going, form suffers and Jose is the fall guy and new guys comes in rinse and repeat.

Im an optimist so I’ll hold out hope but the realistic outlook with levy at the helm is just depressing.

COYS

rossdapep · Jul 5, 2020

leelee said:
There are many who would want to play under Jose. Play in London at the best stadium in he world and train at the finest facility in the world.

The problem is (and always has been) if Levy is prepared to pay the going rate. I'm so pissed off when I hear levy quoting top dollar for our deadwood then expecting to pay below valuation for someone else's star players.

Jose is the man. But whether he can work with a chairman like Levy remains to be seen. I doubt it though.

Levy lives in 2010.

The football world has moved on, it's time he realised that you have to get duds off your books otherwise they...
1. Prevent you from replacing them with a better player in the squad/wage bill.
2. Lose significant value as they barely get game time.
3. In turn, Stagnate the squad.

At one point we had Janssen, Nkoudou, Njie and Fazio all on the wage bill.

We then had two summer's of "We'll buy but it needs to be offset by sales"

You dont see Liverpool and Chelsea having this issue with getting players off their books. They sign a dud and that player is pretty much gone within 18 months.

emiley heskey · Jul 5, 2020

buckley said:
Just a thought on 6 Players that are on a free or in the last year of their contract and a few that may be relegated and therefore clubs may have to sell cheap.
Fraser bournemouth out of contract
Ferguson WBA out of contract
Willian Chelsea out of contract
Hoijberg Southampton final year of contract
Cantwell Norwich almost certain ly relegated
Aaorons Norwich .
IF these six were say supplanted for
Ferguson for left back (free) those that do not know he is a WBA player
AAorons for Aurier Fee involved
Hoijberg in exchange for a holding midfielder we do not possess fee involved
Willian for Sissoko (free)
Fraser for Moura(free)
Cantwell for energy in midfield ( insert whoever ) Fee involved
So 6 in 6 out and in my opinion we would be the better for such moves without spending a fortune.
The transfer fees for Moura Aurier Sissoko would more than cover the cost of these players and we may even have a few bob to buy a special player.

I think Moura has good reputation in Italy and he can be like for like replacement for Dries Mertens and Jose Callejon in Napoli. If we can swap Moura with Milik and Replace Moura with Ryan Fraser, that would be incredible coup. We will have one homegrown premier league proven winger/attacker who knows how to take corner or free kick. Then if we can sell Sissoko to PSG for 20m and replace him with Willian, another player with set piece taking ability, certainly we would cover our weaknesses in the attacking front. We would have basically replaced Moura with Milik and Fraser. Right now we don't have any free kick, corner kick taker in our team. Adding both Willian and Fraser would solve this problem. Also by selling Sissoko, We will have 20m in our bag as well. We can easily buy someone like Ebereche Eze/David Brooks/Todd Cantwell with that money. My bet is on Eze.

Then if we sell KWP (we value him 15m), Danny Rose (5m), Foyth (15m),CCV (5M) - That's roughly 40m. If we can negotiate PEH with soton and get the price down to 25m and give them 10m+KWP, Our defensive midfield position is also sorted and we will still have 30m left. Now we need to decide whether we want Gabriel Magalhaes or Kim-Min-Jae. If money is short, then go for Kim-Min-Jae as he is available for only 12m. Rest of the money we can easily spend on buying a right back like Castagne who is available for 15m. Then we need to decide whether we stick with Aurier or not. If we stick with Aurier, we wont need another Right Back..

rossdapep · Jul 5, 2020

fishhhandaricecake said:
Transfer policy and way the football club has and always will be under levy a mess and very under par. Jose said when he came in the club had all the set-up to be successful but Jose or any other manager will not be successful for us with levy so heavily involved In the football side of things and transfers etc, he suffocates us.

Sure he can get a few good deals here and there but we hang onto too many players for far too long because levy overcharges to sell them so we end up just keeping crap players and then in terms of transfers in he try’s to be clever and get bargains and opportunities but there is a reason that buying a tv on eBay is £200 less and don’t be surprised when you get home and the screen is a funny colour and buttons are missing whereas I’d you’d paid full or near full price you’d actually have got a decent product. Added to that levy drags out transfers endlessly to save pennies which means manages don’t have players they want in in time to work with them and properly plan knowing the kind of squad they will have.

sorry but I feel sorry for Jose, I’m not sure he’s the right fit exactly but who the fuck is, levy has no fucking clue about football, literally zero, he’s a good business man but he’s not a football man and his actions on the football side are constantly at the detriment to the the footballing success of the manager and team. Until levy goes or steps away from the football side of things we have 0 chance of success. Poch was a miracle worker and didn’t get properly backed, Jose has a mess of a squad and also won’t be backed. The only hope is that Jose is better at identifying players and forcing the issue on ones to get and not get compared to other managers just rolling over or having their hands tied and accepting Nelson & Saha or Njie & Janseen, we have to hope that with Jose’s experience and reading of the game and vast contacts that he can he’ll us to get the right signings and persuade levy to sign off on them if not then we all know where this is going, form suffers and Jose is the fall guy and new guys comes in rinse and repeat.

Im an optimist so I’ll hold out hope but the realistic outlook with levy at the helm is just depressing.

COYS

Excellent post and I thoroughly agree with that.

The only way this marriage works is if they have a compromise. Levy gets back to signing young hungry players from the Championship and clubs who are going to be relegated. Mourinho gets a couple of experienced heads in to bring some leadership and consistency.

I think if we were to sign;
Willian (2 years)
Silva (1 year)
Hojberg
Bogel/Aarons
Eze
Godfrey

Then that would be a good start. We get players in positions needed, we don't need to spend the earth and we get some youth back into the side.

Get Vertonghen, Vorm off the wage bill.
Sell Toby, Aurier, Lucas, Foyth and Sissoko.

The problem is I don't know who would take them players and highly likely Levy will want premium for them all.

rossdapep · Jul 5, 2020

emiley heskey said:
I think Moura has good reputation in Italy and he can be like for like replacement for Dries Mertens and Jose Callejon in Napoli. If we can swap Moura with Milik and Replace Moura with Ryan Fraser, that would be incredible coup. We will have one homegrown premier league proven winger/attacker who knows how to take corner or free kick. Then if we can sell Sissoko to PSG for 20m and replace him with Willian, another player with set piece taking ability, certainly we would cover our weaknesses in the attacking front. We would have basically replaced Moura with Milik and Fraser. Right now we don't have any free kick, corner kick taker in our team. Adding both Willian and Fraser would solve this problem. Also by selling Sissoko, We will have 20m in our bag as well. We can easily buy someone like Ebereche Eze/David Brooks/Todd Cantwell with that money. My bet is on Eze.

Then if we sell KWP (we value him 15m), Danny Rose (5m), Foyth (15m),CCV (5M) - That's roughly 40m. If we can negotiate PEH with soton and get the price down to 25m and give them 10m+KWP, Our defensive midfield position is also sorted and we will still have 30m left. Now we need to decide whether we want Gabriel Magalhaes or Kim-Min-Jae. If money is short, then go for Kim-Min-Jae as he is available for only 12m. Rest of the money we can easily spend on buying a right back like Castagne who is available for 15m. Then we need to decide whether we stick with Aurier or not. If we stick with Aurier, we wont need another Right Back..

Napoli are looking Osimhen though. Can't see them wanting Lucas too, although you never know. I highly doubt anyone will come in for Sissoko, he's at the wrong age for a midfielder of his style. I think he'll stay at the club. I'm okay with that as long as we have options to ensure he's just a bit part player.

Good point about the set piece takers. It's another reason why Bruno has been an excellent signing for United, he'll score at least 3 free kicks a season and he'll get a shit ton of assists from them. We have no threat in this respect.

Metalhead · Jul 5, 2020

rossdapep said:
Levy lives in 2010.

The football world has moved on, it's time he realised that you have to get duds off your books otherwise they...
1. Prevent you from replacing them with a better player in the squad/wage bill.
2. Lose significant value as they barely get game time.
3. In turn, Stagnate the squad.

At one point we had Janssen, Nkoudou, Njie and Fazio all on the wage bill.

We then had two summer's of "We'll buy but it needs to be offset by sales"

You dont see Liverpool and Chelsea having this issue with getting players off their books. They sign a dud and that player is pretty much gone within 18 months.

I think that’s very fair. It was ok when there were clubs like Hull or Stoke around to hoover up unwanted players but there aren’t now.

John48 · Jul 5, 2020

Jose not looking to sign older experienced players according to AG, so it looks like the likes of Willian & Silva aren't on the cards.

What Jose has to show for me is how he can get the energy into the team & whether he can find a system of play that works with the players we have. ShUtd was a tactically naïve performance, it was too slow & didn't utilise many players in their best positions.

One of the issues he has at present is he doesn't have a credible (although that's questionable) RB other than Aurier.

rossdapep · Jul 5, 2020

Metalhead said:
I think that’s very fair. It was ok when there were clubs like Hull or Stoke around to hoover up unwanted players but there aren’t now.

Exactly, clubs have learnt and are now scouring everywhere for fresh talent so they aren't going to sign your cast offs for 18m like Stoke did with Wimmer. Instead they'll look to the Championship or elsewhere to find a promising player for a lower fee.

Look at how Norwich assembled their squad, no knock off signings now, just players who they scouted in depth.

emiley heskey · Jul 5, 2020

rossdapep said:
Napoli are looking Osimhen though. Can't see them wanting Lucas too, although you never know. I highly doubt anyone will come in for Sissoko, he's at the wrong age for a midfielder of his style. I think he'll stay at the club. I'm okay with that as long as we have options to ensure he's just a bit part player.

Napoli wants Osimhen to replace Milik. And they want Moura to replace Aging Dries Mertens and Jose Callejon. Both are on the wrong age of 30+ years. My brother is Napoli fan and according to him, their ITK told they wanted Moura in the last summer as well to replace Callejon and Mertens.

Also Last two windows, there were lot of links regarding Sissoko and PSG really wanted him there.

Good point about the set piece takers. It's another reason why Bruno has been an excellent signing for United, he'll score at least 3 free kicks a season and he'll get a shit ton of assists from them. We have no threat in this respect.

Agree with this. One of the reasons why I wanted Bruno over Lo Celso was his set piece taking ability. He was very similar to Eriksen in terms of free kick and also Bruno is dangerous in and outside the box just like Eriksen. We now have only two players in Kane and Son who knows how to shoot outside the box. Before, it was Eriksen, Son and Kane. If we add Fraser and Willian, we will have four players who are very adapt at shooting outside the box and also two quality set piece taker and corner kick takers will be added bonus for the team that finds it hard to score goals.

emiley heskey · Jul 5, 2020

John48 said:
Jose not looking to sign older experienced players according to AG, so it looks like the likes of Willian & Silva aren't on the cards.

What Jose has to show for me is how he can get the energy into the team & whether he can find a system of play that works with the players we have. ShUtd was a tactically naïve performance, it was too slow & didn't utilise many players in their best positions.

One of the issues he has at present is he doesn't have a credible (although that's questionable) RB other than Aurier.

It's never about younger and older players. I think in only Spurs, we think about Younger players something of a positive buy and older players negative buy. How did James Milner fair for Liverpool? He played important role for Liverpool's resurgence. I think we are now missing a player of Willian's ilk and skillset in our squad. He would really compliment our squad very well. His corner kick ability, set piece taking ability and overall game play will be complimentary for the way we want to play. And it's not like Willian is 34 years old. He is only 31 and we can get 3 good years out of him.

I really really think adding Willian and Ryan Fraser in our squad instead of Moura and Sissoko, would give us much needed creativity in the final third and we will be much more dominant in possession play unlike Moura who runs with his eyes closed and Sissoko who can't pass.

jolsnogross · Jul 5, 2020

The players and Levy are constants in this mess. But many on here argued the squad was great but underperforming and Poch had to give way for a winner to seal the deal. And Levy has spent 60M, 48M, 27M, and 30M of 4 new players for this season, plus a couple of loans.

We're not paupers nor averse to spending a few bob. But the longer strategic approach which was in decent shape despite the dip has been shredded. That strategy had coherence and consecutive top 4 finishes and a CL final.

Now we have a pre-Jol look about us and most claiming we're back in long term project mode, possibly including Mourinho. And what looks like years away from those recent heights. What a mess.

danielneeds · Jul 5, 2020

emiley heskey said:
Napoli wants Osimhen to replace Milik. And they want Moura to replace Aging Dries Mertens and Jose Callejon. Both are on the wrong age of 30+ years. My brother is Napoli fan and according to him, their ITK told they wanted Moura in the last summer as well to replace Callejon and Mertens.

Also Last two windows, there were lot of links regarding Sissoko and PSG really wanted him there.

Agree with this. One of the reasons why I wanted Bruno over Lo Celso was his set piece taking ability. He was very similar to Eriksen in terms of free kick and also Bruno is dangerous in and outside the box just like Eriksen. We now have only two players in Kane and Son who knows how to shoot outside the box. Before, it was Eriksen, Son and Kane. If we add Fraser and Willian, we will have four players who are very adapt at shooting outside the box and also two quality set piece taker and corner kick takers will be added bonus for the team that finds it hard to score goals.

Is Fraser adept at shooting outside the box? Never really seen that myself. Decent crosser and set pieces, but thats it. I agree the fact we knew Eriksen was off and didn’t figure into our planning that we needed a set piece specialist is another example of the lack of planning and muddled thinking.

emiley heskey · Jul 5, 2020

danielneeds said:
Is Fraser adept at shooting outside the box? Never really seen that myself. Decent crosser and set pieces, but thats it. I agree the fact we knew Eriksen was off and didn’t figure into our planning that we needed a set piece specialist is another example of the lack of planning and muddled thinking.

Not much shooting outside the box I agree but he is a much better crosser of the ball than the likes of Moura , Ali or Sissoko. Like Eriksen used to cross the ball from vertical line for Dele or Son ( goal vs chelsea ), Fraser is really expert in this kind of crossing. Also Bruno fernandes has this kind of traits as well ....

Except Kane, Son and now Bergwjin, rest of our attacking players like Ali, Lamela, Moura are not complete footballers. Ali lacks basic through ball and shooting ability, he doesn't dribble or don't have enough pace to cover spaces and most importantly he can't cross or make long passes . Moura is not an intelligent footballer at all.. Lamela is good at through balls and holding it up in final third but he lacks pace, can't shot, can't cross ...

spursfan77 · Jul 5, 2020

John48 said:
Jose not looking to sign older experienced players according to AG, so it looks like the likes of Willian & Silva aren't on the cards.

What Jose has to show for me is how he can get the energy into the team & whether he can find a system of play that works with the players we have. ShUtd was a tactically naïve performance, it was too slow & didn't utilise many players in their best positions.

One of the issues he has at present is he doesn't have a credible (although that's questionable) RB other than Aurier.

Yeah he said that in his press conference yesterday. Fans should really watch them because journos only seem to pick and choose parts of them to whatever fits their narrative.

They could easily write a story about “Mourinho turns to youth in transfer pursuit” for example. But that wouldn’t suit the narrative about him would it? It’s all spin and bollocks.

LeParisien · Jul 5, 2020

Ill start this by saying its great to hear Mourinho say he wants to target plays with mental fortitude. That leaves me optimistic were looking for the right sort of thing.

fishhhandaricecake said:
Transfer policy and way the football club has and always will be under levy a mess and very under par. Jose said when he came in the club had all the set-up to be successful but Jose or any other manager will not be successful for us with levy so heavily involved In the football side of things and transfers etc, he suffocates us.

Mourinho didnt say that when he arrived. He said the opposite. He said he appreciated the fact that for once there was honesty from the owners about the resources and expectations and that he was happy with that.

Happy to be corrected with a link but otherwise dont pretend Mourinho is voicing your opinion.

rossdapep said:
You dont see Liverpool and Chelsea having this issue with getting players off their books. They sign a dud and that player is pretty much gone within 18 months.

I was interested to see whether you were right. So I checked, going back to 2015 (time to see what happened to duds under Klopp).

Karius - 2 years before being sold
Ings - 4 years
Clyne - 5 years. Unsold, just left on a free.
Benteke - 1 year, sold at 15m loss.
Grujic - 4.5 years and unsold.

What stood out was that they bought remarkably few duds in that time but they havent been particularly good at selling them. Benteke is the exception but the sold him for a big loss.

Chelsea's turn.

Morata - 2 years.
Bakayoko - 3 years unsold
Drinkwater - 3 years unsold
Zappacosta - 3 years unsold
These 4 alone are standing at a total of 105m in wasted money from that summer (10m loss on Morata, others big fees and negligible loan fees recouped on unsold players).
Batshuyai - 4 years unsold.
Luiz - 3 years, 26m loss
Baba Abdul Rahmen - 5 years, unsold
Kenedy - 5 years, unsold
Michael Hector - 4.5 years
Nathan - 5 years
Papy Djilobodji - 1 year

Chelsea have lost a very large amount of money on bad players that it has taken them 18 months or less to sell 1 time out of 11. That was the last player on the list who was sold to Sunderland. Perhaps equivalent to our Wimmer deal with Stoke.

They key difference is that Liverpool and Chelsea have loaned these duds out more often. That liberates room in the squad lists and avoids having an unhappy character around. However it does nothing for their sale price or even their capacity to be sold (perhaps surprisingly!).

Conclusion: Liverpool and Chelsea do have problems selling players who have not been a success. 75% of the time (12 out of 16) they take three years or longer to be sold and this is often done at a loss (huge losses in Chelsea's case).

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