Match Threads Spurs vs Everton - Match Thread

C0YS · Jul 6, 2020

ComfortablyNumb said:
Why? We’re not likely to get relegated, and very doubtful for a CL place, so who gives a shit? We’re just treading water until next season.

Firstly, we still could. So we should keep on trying till that door closes. Also Europa would still be nice.

Secondly, we need to build confidence and momentum coming into next season. Particularly as next season isn't in such a long time.

spursfan77 · Jul 6, 2020

Dr Know said:
Yeah, the game was a bit boring but I'll just take the win and be happy........even if we had won 10-9 I'd still be happy with a win

Im over the moon we won. Feels great. Over the last year or so I’ve really savoured the wind because we’ve been so bad compared to the previous period.

The Apprentice · Jul 6, 2020

C0YS said:
They work hard, and I don't get this sudden stick for Sissoko in particular. He has been injured for so long, and our performances without him have been complete rubbish. He wasn't favoured at the start, he didn't start first few games at all. But he runs a lot, covers ground and covers players backs. He was vital in our win today, so was Lucas, because they preformed excellently defensively and worked hard for the team.

That is why they play instead of more 'talented' players. Every single player in our team right now seems to be a scapegoat for somebody. The only ones who are not are the new signings, who are untouchable in some peoples eyes. This always happens. I'm gonna be honest here. While promising bergwijn hasn't been that special, he gives the ball a way a lot, doesn't create many opportunities and all that. But he has been promising, has a good shot on him been good on the counter all that. At the moment he's a hit, but give it a season and people will be on his back.

Moura hasn't been super great recently, though it confounds me how some people seem to think a player who has contributed so much for this club is suddenly a waste of space. He is a useful squad player, and he put in a real shift in today. He wins us free kicks under pressure constantly.

Sissoko, today, made a few great interceptions, relieved the pressure from us by going on a few runs and was very disciplined and solid team. He also hasn't played for ages but has contributed a lot, and for some bizarre reason we tend to play better with him in the side.

Also Ndombele would have been a really bad idea today, today was all about discipline, Ndombele is not disciplined as a player. I don't know why but he needs to learn that part of the game.

Conversely, you could argue that the dross that we are currently serving up is attributable, in no small part, to the two geniuses you highlight. Having two players in our front 6 who struggle with the fundamentals so regularly is hamstringing our ability to play football.

Hoddlegenius · Jul 6, 2020

I’m really not enjoying watching how we play at the moment. It’s boring, mostly predictable and everything else I feared it would be under Mourinho. We need a big personnel shake up and a change in style in my opinion and I’m already dreading next season as I can’t see anything massively changing...

TheRevolution · Jul 6, 2020

ComfortablyNumb said:
Why? We’re not likely to get relegated, and very doubtful for a CL place, so who gives a shit? We’re just treading water until next season.

Building confidence. We showed alot of fight and work rate in the game. Everybody knows that it is important to end a season strong as usually it has an impact on the following one.

Albertbarich · Jul 6, 2020

C0YS said:
They work hard, and I don't get this sudden stick for Sissoko in particular. He has been injured for so long, and our performances without him have been complete rubbish. He wasn't favoured at the start, he didn't start first few games at all. But he runs a lot, covers ground and covers players backs. He was vital in our win today, so was Lucas, because they preformed excellently defensively and worked hard for the team.

That is why they play instead of more 'talented' players. Every single player in our team right now seems to be a scapegoat for somebody. The only ones who are not are the new signings, who are untouchable in some peoples eyes. This always happens. I'm gonna be honest here. While promising bergwijn hasn't been that special, he gives the ball a way a lot, doesn't create many opportunities and all that. But he has been promising, has a good shot on him been good on the counter all that. At the moment he's a hit, but give it a season and people will be on his back.

Moura hasn't been super great recently, though it confounds me how some people seem to think a player who has contributed so much for this club is suddenly a waste of space. He is a useful squad player, and he put in a real shift in today. He wins us free kicks under pressure constantly.

Sissoko, today, made a few great interceptions, relieved the pressure from us by going on a few runs and was very disciplined and solid team. He also hasn't played for ages but has contributed a lot, and for some bizarre reason we tend to play better with him in the side.

Also Ndombele would have been a really bad idea today, today was all about discipline, Ndombele is not disciplined as a player. I don't know why but he needs to learn that part of the game.

Sissoko seems like the nicest guy in the world and his charm was always that he lacked talent but overcame the odds. He absolutely lacks the quality needed though. The whole right side was useless. Aurier has almost no end product, lucas runs around like a headless chicken with and without the ball and sissoko has the worst attributes of both.

I dont want the from spurs. It worked tonight because they scored own goal but don't forget it blew up in his face against leipzig and Chelsea. Id imagine he's going to try something very different against the scum and if we don't win be prepared because sitting back in an uber defensive line up at home against your most despised rivals is a have to win strategy, if you dont then its humiliation.

danielneeds · Jul 7, 2020

Albertbarich said:
Sissoko seems like the nicest guy in the world and his charm was always that he lacked talent but overcame the odds. He absolutely lacks the quality needed though. The whole right side was useless. Aurier has almost no end product, lucas runs around like a headless chicken with and without the ball and sissoko has the worst attributes of both.

I dont want the from spurs. It worked tonight because they scored own goal but don't forget it blew up in his face against leipzig and Chelsea. Id imagine he's going to try something very different against the scum and if we don't win be prepared because sitting back in an uber defensive line up at home against your most despised rivals is a have to win strategy, if you dont then its humiliation.

It was a troika of haplessness, for sure.

spursville · Jul 7, 2020

C0YS said:
They work hard, and I don't get this sudden stick for Sissoko in particular. He has been injured for so long, and our performances without him have been complete rubbish. He wasn't favoured at the start, he didn't start first few games at all. But he runs a lot, covers ground and covers players backs. He was vital in our win today, so was Lucas, because they preformed excellently defensively and worked hard for the team.

That is why they play instead of more 'talented' players. Every single player in our team right now seems to be a scapegoat for somebody. The only ones who are not are the new signings, who are untouchable in some peoples eyes. This always happens. I'm gonna be honest here. While promising bergwijn hasn't been that special, he gives the ball a way a lot, doesn't create many opportunities and all that. But he has been promising, has a good shot on him been good on the counter all that. At the moment he's a hit, but give it a season and people will be on his back.

Moura hasn't been super great recently, though it confounds me how some people seem to think a player who has contributed so much for this club is suddenly a waste of space. He is a useful squad player, and he put in a real shift in today. He wins us free kicks under pressure constantly.

Sissoko, today, made a few great interceptions, relieved the pressure from us by going on a few runs and was very disciplined and solid team. He also hasn't played for ages but has contributed a lot, and for some bizarre reason we tend to play better with him in the side.

Also Ndombele would have been a really bad idea today, today was all about discipline, Ndombele is not disciplined as a player. I don't know why but he needs to learn that part of the game.

1. I'm guessing everyone is fed up with watching 'useful squad players'. We have far too many 'useful squad players'. Most of the squad is made up of of 'useful squad players'. In fact, most of our first eleven is made up of 'useful squad players'. Isn't this one of the reasons Poch left and we've sunk so far? How many of these players would get into Liverpool or Man City's squad?
2. We're still watching Winks and Sissoko in CM. Most of us really want to move on.
3. Bergwijn ('useful squad player?') may unfortunately never have the impact that B Fernandes has had.

Teemu · Jul 7, 2020

I'm still buzzing boys

What a night eh

danielneeds · Jul 7, 2020

rossdapep said:
He's making himself look like an utter bum

Funny, because Jose had a similar attitude to Martial, said he couldnt rely on him, that he didnt work hard enough, and look now, after someone nurtured him and put their faith in him he’s scored 20 goals in a season and going from strength to strength.

C0YS · Jul 7, 2020

The Apprentice said:
Conversely, you could argue that the dross that we are currently serving up is attributable, in no small part, to the two geniuses you highlight. Having two players in our front 6 who struggle with the fundamentals so regularly is hamstringing our ability to play football.

What do you mean fundamentals?

Passing the ball?

I think if you wan't to play fluid stuff you don't pick Jose as your manager. Many thought he was our player of the season last year, and Sissoko comes back from a long term injury and suddenly he is shit. His job isn't to pass, or even attack. It's to roam around plugging in holes, work in transition and all that.

OK, if we look against Sheffield Utd, if was Lucas' run that led to the non goal. But also, he is the target point for our long balls. Jose likes him for his leap, his industry and yes, his ability to take people on and be effective on the counter.

I don't always like being on this forum, because it is super negative where people just flip and change on players every week. Where they just look for thing to reinforce their own biases and have an incredibly short memory. Insanely short memory.

Too much focus is also on seeing players as good or bad, when it is more complex than that. Footballers are tools, and a tool can be used in a variety of ways. Too much focus is on what players can't do not on what they are meant to do, or even what they are told to do. People, often take, for example Bale's lack of tracking back at Real Madrid, as if it's his attitude that changed, not that he is being played as an auxiliary striker who past coaches didn't want tracking back.

Lucas and Sissoko are being asked to do specific roles. They are not playing amazingly well, but they are doing their job. Someone like N'dombele might look like they are playing super well but might also be completely failing to their job. And if you fai to do your job, you undermine the strategy, the team and what you are trying to achieve. It's the same with the Lennon thing, it took people years to understand that when Bale became the main man his role took a way more defensive and supporting nature to it. 'why isn't he taking anybody on' would be a common thing, but while that's exciting it isn't necessarily what's right for the team.

Sissoko has been part of fantastic offensive performances, so has Lucas. They both have clearly a roll to play, to get rid of them would be madness. Particularly as I can just imagine their replacements in the eyes of some of the fans. Namely, the next big thing in the french league (a role previously occupied by Sissoko and to a latter degree Lucas) and frankly they won't be anywhere near as good as people make them out to be.

spud · Jul 7, 2020

Well that was pretty uninspiring wasn't it? Apart from fluking a win when I confidently expected us to lose, it was more or less what I expected.

I would offer the following post-covid break summary:

Defensively: three barely competent performances and one clusterfuck. Some hints of organisation but one individual or collective fuck-up away from disaster.

Attacking: we seem to have three strategies
1. Move the ball slowly forwards then pass it square on the edge of their box for a while before giving it away.
2. Hit it long - either centrally for Kane to jump for, or to the flanks for a wide man to run at them - and hope for the best. If we don't somehow score but manage to retain possession, revert to the square passing phase of strategy 1.
3. Run with the ball as fast as possible from one end to the other before being crowded out and giving it away.

If there is something else happening then I haven't seen it. Our assistant manager is supposed to be some kind of attacking play guru. On the evidence so far he seems not to be as advertised.

C0YS · Jul 7, 2020

spursville said:
1. I'm guessing everyone is fed up with watching 'useful squad players'. We have far too many 'useful squad players'. Most of the squad is made up of of 'useful squad players'. In fact, most of our first eleven is made up of 'useful squad players'. Isn't this one of the reasons Poch left and we've sunk so far? How many of these players would get into Liverpool or Man City's squad?
2. We're still watching Winks and Sissoko in CM. Most of us really want to move on.
3. Bergwijn ('useful squad player?') may unfortunately never have the impact that B Fernandes has had.

1) We have far too little useful squad players. This is our major problem. We are not Liverpool and Man city, and Liverpool would take Moura and Sissoko as part of their squads, and that is not a lie, and if either wanted to leave I guarantee they will be taken by a Champions League regular club. Guaranteed. Meanwhile, other players like Winks, have literally been strongly linked to Man city in January. We do need more squad like players, because we are really imbalanced.

2) Winks was very good today. What do you want instead?

3) Begwijn won't have the impact B Fernandes has had. But there are only a few players in world football who would. Like, seriously.

It's like people who hounded trippier and wanted him out. Now he is a core part of an Atletico team which are much better than us. Sissoko and Winks is a completely imbalanced combination, this is a real problem. But when you have Winks, playing out of position as a n.6, who is learning that position, next to Sissoko who probably needs someone more creative to interact with. Both players would benefit greatly from a n.6 and a n.10. Creating a balanced squad. They both have a future here. Would complete madness for us to sell them and is more likely to do damage than support the team.

The whole liverpool midfield is a bunch of not particularly spectacular squad players, who work hard (with the exception of Fabinho which is a really underrated player). Again, players are tools, if they are useful tools keep them, but you need to balance it. Create the right platform you can make Charlie Adam look world class.

C0YS · Jul 7, 2020

Albertbarich said:
Sissoko seems like the nicest guy in the world and his charm was always that he lacked talent but overcame the odds. He absolutely lacks the quality needed though. The whole right side was useless. Aurier has almost no end product, lucas runs around like a headless chicken with and without the ball and sissoko has the worst attributes of both.

I dont want the from spurs. It worked tonight because they scored own goal but don't forget it blew up in his face against leipzig and Chelsea. Id imagine he's going to try something very different against the scum and if we don't win be prepared because sitting back in an uber defensive line up at home against your most despised rivals is a have to win strategy, if you dont then its humiliation.

Again, the right flank was very disciplined, and most of our problems came down the left. Two games in a row btw.

Sissoko didn't overcome the odds. Sissoko has played a european cup final (was the best player in that final) was super hyped in an exciting toulouse team and was temporarily our record signing. This wasn't done to make some sort of rubbish Hollywood story.

Sissoko has very unique talents, but he is an ultra-talented player and was great last season not out of charity, he was genuinely great. The fact he isn't some great passer of the ball does not mean he lacks talent. In Newcastle his perception was the opposite. Super talented, little effort. He made a step up, but unique traits, they way he just barges through people with a great engine.

Ok Aurier, today didn't really do anything, but he has some of the best assists stats in the league. I'm not a fan of Aurier but end product is not his problem. His problem is he can't defend very well. Today he defended much better than normal

Lucas, pressed well, he defended the near post superbly at set pieces, won important free kicks and headers as well.

We were terrible at Leipzig and Chelsea, in fact we have largely been crap under Jose. But we haven't been crap against Man Utd, West Ham and today. We have actually looked incredibly Mourinhoish. Problems yes. Our players spend too long on the ball and seem to get in each others way. But much better. I don't want to defend against Arsenal, but that's what we will do, and if we do it well we win or draw, but probably win considering Arsenal can't defend for shit. The problem about before the break, was we tried to defend, but couldn't do it at all. We were terrible defensively and were pulled apart. Man utd, West Ham and today were very good defensive performances. Moura and Sissoko are part of thagt.

I'm not saying they should start but they are very useful players. Aurier as well, though I am not a fan. Those free players, if they were to leave tomorrow would go to other champions league competing clubs. Maybe not in the UK. Easily be Trippier situation.

emiley heskey · Jul 7, 2020

C0YS said:
Again, the right flank was very disciplined, and most of our problems came down the left. Two games in a row btw.

Sissoko didn't overcome the odds. Sissoko has played a european cup final (was the best player in that final) was super hyped in an exciting toulouse team and was temporarily our record signing. This wasn't done to make some sort of rubbish Hollywood story.

Sissoko has very unique talents, but he is an ultra-talented player and was great last season not out of charity, he was genuinely great. The fact he isn't some great passer of the ball does not mean he lacks talent. In Newcastle his perception was the opposite. Super talented, little effort. He made a step up, but unique traits, they way he just barges through people with a great engine.

Ok Aurier, today didn't really do anything, but he has some of the best assists stats in the league. I'm not a fan of Aurier but end product is not his problem. His problem is he can't defend very well. Today he defended much better than normal

Lucas, pressed well, he defended the near post superbly at set pieces, won important free kicks and headers as well.

We were terrible at Leipzig and Chelsea, in fact we have largely been crap under Jose. But we haven't been crap against Man Utd, West Ham and today. We have actually looked incredibly Mourinhoish. Problems yes. Our players spend too long on the ball and seem to get in each others way. But much better. I don't want to defend against Arsenal, but that's what we will do, and if we do it well we win or draw, but probably win considering Arsenal can't defend for shit. The problem about before the break, was we tried to defend, but couldn't do it at all. We were terrible defensively and were pulled apart. Man utd, West Ham and today were very good defensive performances. Moura and Sissoko are part of thagt.

I'm not saying they should start but they are very useful players. Aurier as well, though I am not a fan. Those free players, if they were to leave tomorrow would go to other champions league competing clubs. Maybe not in the UK. Easily be Trippier situation.

I can really see Diego Simeone using Sissoko in his ultra defensive team or even Thomas Tuchel using Sissoko in last 30 mins of the game at the right side of the midfield replacing Di Maria or Draxler ... Also Napoli likes Lucas Moura and he might be their replacement for Jose Callejon and Dries Mertens as long as we get Milik in return.

Albertbarich · Jul 7, 2020

C0YS said:
Again, the right flank was very disciplined, and most of our problems came down the left. Two games in a row btw.

Sissoko didn't overcome the odds. Sissoko has played a european cup final (was the best player in that final) was super hyped in an exciting toulouse team and was temporarily our record signing. This wasn't done to make some sort of rubbish Hollywood story.

When I say overcame the odds I meant with spurs fans. He was pretty much written off as a terrible buy until he turned it round last season and became a cult like figure where people loved him for his effort but would often laugh about his lack of quality.

I remember him being hyped up at Toulouse alongside ettiene capoue, I also remember the Newcastle fans having him.

Hes an OK player. As you say he would be welcome in most squads. Versatile, powerful and experienced, he's a managers dream.

Sissoko has very unique talents, but he is an ultra-talented player and was great last season not out of charity, he was genuinely great. The fact he isn't some great passer of the ball does not mean he lacks talent. In Newcastle his perception was the opposite. Super talented, little effort. He made a step up, but unique traits, they way he just barges through people with a great engine.

He wasnt great last season. He was OK and a lot better than he had been previously. Still a huge downgrade on moussa dumbele.

Ok Aurier, today didn't really do anything, but he has some of the best assists stats in the league. I'm not a fan of Aurier but end product is not his problem. His problem is he can't defend very well. Today he defended much better than normal

His allowed to play as a right winger , his assist stats should be good. I wonder what his wasted crosses stats are? The right hand side is inbalanced as moura for me is a winger but due to having to play aurier high up the pitch he plays as an inside 10, thus negating his main strength- dribbling.

Lucas, pressed well, he defended the near post superbly at set pieces, won important free kicks and headers as well.

Would you say he deserves this status that mourinho has bestowed upon him as automatic starter? I know I wouldnt and thats my issue.

We were terrible at Leipzig and Chelsea, in fact we have largely been crap under Jose. But we haven't been crap against Man Utd, West Ham and today. We have actually looked incredibly Mourinhoish. Problems yes. Our players spend too long on the ball and seem to get in each others way. But much better. I don't want to defend against Arsenal, but that's what we will do, and if we do it well we win or draw, but probably win considering Arsenal can't defend for shit. The problem about before the break, was we tried to defend, but couldn't do it at all. We were terrible defensively and were pulled apart. Man utd, West Ham and today were very good defensive performances. Moura and Sissoko are part of thagt.

You say arsenal can't defend but I just watched them comfortably hold at bay an excellent wolves side. Arteta seems to be doing a lot of good work there, if we sit back and put in this sort of performance and don't get a result the post Sheffield United moaning will be a walk in the park compared to the reaction.

I'm not saying they should start but they are very useful players. Aurier as well, though I am not a fan. Those free players, if they were to leave tomorrow would go to other champions league competing clubs. Maybe not in the UK. Easily be Trippier situation.

I agree. I have no issue with any being squad players but I do take issue with them becoming seemingly undroppable.

RikkiRocket · Jul 7, 2020

C0YS said:
What do you mean fundamentals?

Passing the ball?

I think if you wan't to play fluid stuff you don't pick Jose as your manager. Many thought he was our player of the season last year, and Sissoko comes back from a long term injury and suddenly he is shit. His job isn't to pass, or even attack. It's to roam around plugging in holes, work in transition and all that.

OK, if we look against Sheffield Utd, if was Lucas' run that led to the non goal. But also, he is the target point for our long balls. Jose likes him for his leap, his industry and yes, his ability to take people on and be effective on the counter.

I don't always like being on this forum, because it is super negative where people just flip and change on players every week. Where they just look for thing to reinforce their own biases and have an incredibly short memory. Insanely short memory.

Too much focus is also on seeing players as good or bad, when it is more complex than that. Footballers are tools, and a tool can be used in a variety of ways. Too much focus is on what players can't do not on what they are meant to do, or even what they are told to do. People, often take, for example Bale's lack of tracking back at Real Madrid, as if it's his attitude that changed, not that he is being played as an auxiliary striker who past coaches didn't want tracking back.

Lucas and Sissoko are being asked to do specific roles. They are not playing amazingly well, but they are doing their job. Someone like N'dombele might look like they are playing super well but might also be completely failing to their job. And if you fai to do your job, you undermine the strategy, the team and what you are trying to achieve. It's the same with the Lennon thing, it took people years to understand that when Bale became the main man his role took a way more defensive and supporting nature to it. 'why isn't he taking anybody on' would be a common thing, but while that's exciting it isn't necessarily what's right for the team.

Sissoko has been part of fantastic offensive performances, so has Lucas. They both have clearly a roll to play, to get rid of them would be madness. Particularly as I can just imagine their replacements in the eyes of some of the fans. Namely, the next big thing in the french league (a role previously occupied by Sissoko and to a latter degree Lucas) and frankly they won't be anywhere near as good as people make them out to be.

“Footballers are tools“

harsh. Very harsh?

fortworthspur · Jul 7, 2020

woo hoo! Just 5 more own goals and 5 more clean sheets and we're in with a chance!

DCSPUR · Jul 7, 2020

is there a good holding midfielder we could get this summer? Move to a CM3 with the holder shielding the back 4. Allow some combo of Winks and GLC to play progressively and a front 3 of Son, SB and Kane

DCSPUR · Jul 7, 2020

separately - highly probable Kane is sold this summer to fund a rebuild....which Levy will fack up of course!

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