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Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,164
38,545
Yeah pretty amazing that one of the best young midfielder in the world cost only 60+10m eur

But if you look at his history he's never maintained a period of good form. He's had good games and then gone off the boil for long periods. He's talented of course but to be in the top handful of most expensive central midfield players of all time, one would surely expect a little more than ability alone.
 

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832
Jose has always had issues with players that differ in personality and I’m not saying this means the players are worse off for this. You really think de bruyne or salah are players with bad fitness and shitty footballing opinions? They both direct the two best footballing teams in the country

Jose didn't sell Salah or De Bruyne for personality or attitude problem. They didn't want to be a backup option and got better offer elsewhere ..
 

Havre

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
829
1,065
And maybe Mourinho will be proven "right" with Ndombele - depending on what your definition of right is. Rebrov was clearly a talented player - he was all time Champions League leading goalscorer at one point and had scored home and away against Arsenal in Europe. He showed flashes of brilliance in his first season here but struggled with Graham's long ball game, but then when Hoddle came in instead of giving him the chance to flourish in a more technical passing based game that should have suited him better, he was completely frozen out in favour of a 36 year old Les Ferdinand, a 36 year old Teddy Sheringham (who was still class TBF) and er, Steffen Iversen. Now on one hand the fact that Rebrov never got back to his best after leaving Spurs to prove Hoddle wrong shows that he was "right", but I do also feel that part of the art of management is to get the best out of your players, especially your best players, and simply discarding expensive assets to the scrap pile is a dangerous strategy - particularly when you don't exactly have world class options in their place.

I would agree to most of that. And who knows what could have happened with Rebrov, but I also think it is fair to say that he didn't show enough after to justify getting that many more chances at Spurs. My guess there were reasons for him not playing. Not saying it was right, but it wasn't IMO clearly wrong (or proven to be). Prince-Boateng would be a better example of a player that clearly had more ability. Or Popescu if you want to go back further.

With N'Dombele - that has to do with what kind of team we want to be as well. Other players react when they see people not tracking their player etc (ref Lloris last night). I don't want a team full of Cattermoles, but there got to be some sort of accountability even for the flair players. Maybe if you are an old Messi you can get away with some, but you won't find them in Liverpool or at City. Why should we accept it at Spurs? The days when the most skilled players could get away with being "lazy" is over IMO.
 

Thewobbler

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2016
3,814
5,701
I do acknowledge your point. I'm just looking at this through a pragmatic lense. Jose has a winners mentality and he has proven that. So I'm assuming he is playing each game to win right now and with that in mind Ndombele isn't making the team ahead of the others who he believes are more likely to get us the result.

This is the reason he isn't playing. Jose's doing all he can to get us in to the European places and that's why we are playing like a lower level team trying to scrape wins and being defensively tight.

He just doesn't trust the lad to do the hard graft.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2004
1,288
563
It's such a shame because we need some creativity from deep, exactly what Ndombele would bring.
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,381
17,040
And maybe Mourinho will be proven "right" with Ndombele - depending on what your definition of right is. Rebrov was clearly a talented player - he was all time Champions League leading goalscorer at one point and had scored home and away against Arsenal in Europe. He showed flashes of brilliance in his first season here but struggled with Graham's long ball game, but then when Hoddle came in instead of giving him the chance to flourish in a more technical passing based game that should have suited him better, he was completely frozen out in favour of a 36 year old Les Ferdinand, a 36 year old Teddy Sheringham (who was still class TBF) and er, Steffen Iversen. Now on one hand the fact that Rebrov never got back to his best after leaving Spurs to prove Hoddle wrong shows that he was "right", but I do also feel that part of the art of management is to get the best out of your players, especially your best players, and simply discarding expensive assets to the scrap pile is a dangerous strategy - particularly when you don't exactly have world class options in their place.

i had such high hopes for little Sergei, such a shame although I also expected Shevchencko to rip it up in the premier league so maybe I’m not the best judge of Ukrainian goal scorers.
 

AssaTM

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
443
1,379
I think the biggest take away that i've had to accept, and I see some in here starting to as well is maybe he just isn't applying himself in the way he should be, and regardless of how much talent you have, you don't just put that player into the team as it sends the wrong message and it would be inherently wrong to the players actively trying their best. What that means for the future I have no idea, but if the application isn't there he shouldn't be in the team regardless of ability but I just hope he takes that in the right way rather than just jumps ship. If he does end up just moving on I feel questions over his application/commitment will plague him forever which would be a massive waste of a clearly very talented football player
 

Phil_2.0

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2008
927
1,804
It's such a shame because we need some creativity from deep, exactly what Ndombele would bring.

Think last night showed we need all our midfielders to protect the back four better hence why Lloris tried to fight Son. Ndombele would not have given us any protection.
 

DEFchenkOE

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2006
10,527
8,052
Hardwork beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

I think we all want to see Ndombele succeed with us, we're crying out for some creative passing in our midfield to compliment Lo Celso. But if he can't be trusted to put in the workrate required in this league then I have to back Jose.

Watching us play how we played yesterday is a bit soul destroying for me, but if the manager is trying to instil hard work and an ethos at the club then he has to do it as he sees fit.

The only person that can really change this situation is Ndombele himself.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
I think the biggest take away that i've had to accept, and I see some in here starting to as well is maybe he just isn't applying himself in the way he should be, and regardless of how much talent you have, you don't just put that player into the team as it sends the wrong message and it would be inherently wrong to the players actively trying their best. What that means for the future I have no idea, but if the application isn't there he shouldn't be in the team regardless of ability but I just hope he takes that in the right way rather than just jumps ship. If he does end up just moving on I feel questions over his application/commitment will plague him forever which would be a massive waste of a clearly very talented football player
My point is that a one-size-fit-all approach is just bad management, though. Not everyone is a tough warrior, and that's okay. You can build a team with different personalities. Trippier said he'd heard from players still here what a beast Ndombele is, so obviously he can't be that bad in training.

Jose wants everyone to be Drogbas, Ivanovics, Terrys. Tough guys and warriors, but when you haven't got an unlimited budget you can't have a squad of players with brilliant ability and a fantastic, hard as nails personalities. You need to compromise, find a way to coax more. Either improve limited players with a brilliant attitude, or put an arm round the shoulder and nurture gifted players who are a little soft mentally. I just don't see much sign of either from Jose.
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
Jose has always had issues with players that differ in personality and I’m not saying this means the players are worse off for this. You really think de bruyne or salah are players with bad fitness and shitty footballing opinions? They both direct the two best footballing teams in the country

I don't think the issues with KDB and Salah (Lukaku too) were ever attitude. They left to further their careers due to lack of playing time. With hindsight you could argue that KDB especially was where Chelsea dropped the ball, as whilst Oscar deserved his starting role at the time he jumped to China a couple of years down the line, just as KDB was ripping it up in Germany.

Mo Salah was behind Eden Hazard and Willian, two quality players that have brought Chelsea numerous trophies since he left for Fiorentina.

Lukaku he even bought back when at Utd and got one great season out of him and is now ripping it up at Inter. Mourinho also gets stick over Martial but again often chose Rashford ahead of him, the same Rashford that is still a key player for England and Utd.

Pogba is the example to use, and until recently nice guy Ole was having issues with him too.

The frustrating thing is that at Spurs Ndombele has no proper competition yet is not able to be trusted in said position due to clear issues with fitness and implied issues with application (possibly due to injury and struggling to settle).

It all just feels like another stick to beat Jose with.

Edit - That said I do agree with @danielneeds post above about Mourinho needing to find a way accomodate him but and being sure if he can. That said the current plan on trying to solidify the defence could be part of Jose's plan to integrate him.
 

Phil_2.0

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2008
927
1,804
My point is that a one-size-fit-all approach is just bad management, though. Not everyone is a tough warrior, and that's okay. You can build a team with different personalities. Trippier said he'd heard from players still here what a beast Ndombele is, so obviously he can't be that bad in training.

Jose wants everyone to be Drogbas, Ivanovics, Terrys. Tough guys and warriors, but when you haven't got an unlimited budget you can't have a squad of players with brilliant ability and a fantastic, hard as nails personalities. You need to compromise, find a way to coax more. Either improve limited players with a brilliant attitude, or put an arm round the shoulder and nurture gifted players who are a little soft mentally. I just don't see much sign of either from Jose.

Mourinho won the La liga with Ozil playing lots of games. Sneijder at Inter, also Balotelli got a lot of minutes in that treble season. Fabregas in his last team at Chelsea.

Mourinho will play talented players whose primary role is not that of a destroyer but right now I believe he doesn't think this Spurs team can carry Ndombele and his work rate isn't up to the level where its not a risk to play him.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2004
1,288
563
Think last night showed we need all our midfielders to protect the back four better hence why Lloris tried to fight Son. Ndombele would not have given us any protection.
I didn't say he doesn't need to improve his defensive capabilities, rather we miss having a CM with his skillset
 

ClintEastwould

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2012
4,748
9,845
Are you sure?

They follow runners and at least put a foot in. They are disciplined and play for the team.

I agree NDombele is more talented but the point is he just isn't doing the basics of what is required of a central midfielder. Until he can do this he will be a hindrance to the team.



If this was TN we’d never hear the end of it
 

Albertbarich

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2020
5,082
19,484
We have just witnessed him have the exact same lack of faith with Pogba to the point where the lad seemed determined to leave. Now under Solsjkaer who previously got sacked by Cardiff City pogba is flying again.

N'dombele may not have that energy jose wants but let's not pretend mourinho doesn't have form here.

If you want to talk bad attitudes he picks serge aurier a man who time and time again has let the team down and yet were basing out whole system around him so he doesnt have to defend. Yet young Ryan Sessegnon who has done nothing wrong cant get on the bench when if they flipped that system and free'd him up on the left it would suit his game perfectly.

I dont mind serge but I get frustrated with this constant having a go at n'dombele when he hasn't really had the chance to shine.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
I don't think the issues with KDB and Salah (Lukaku too) were ever attitude. They left to further their careers due to lack of playing time. With hindsight you could argue that KDB especially was where Chelsea dropped the ball, as whilst Oscar deserved his starting role at the time he jumped to China a couple of years down the line, just as KDB was ripping it up in Germany.

Mo Salah was behind Eden Hazard and Willian, two quality players that have brought Chelsea numerous trophies since he left for Fiorentina.

Lukaku he even bought back when at Utd and got one great season out of him and is now ripping it up at Inter. Mourinho also gets stick over Martial but again often chose Rashford ahead of him, the same Rashford that is still a key player for England and Utd.

Pogba is the example to use, and until recently nice guy Ole was having issues with him too.

The frustrating thing is that at Spurs Ndombele has no proper competition yet is not able to be trusted in said position due to clear issues with fitness and implied issues with application (possibly due to injury and struggling to settle).

It all just feels like another stick to beat Jose with.

Edit - That said I do agree with @danielneeds post above about Mourinho needing to find a way accomodate him but and being sure if he can. That said the current plan on trying to solidify the defence could be part of Jose's plan to integrate him.
good post
 

agrdavidsfan

Ledley's Knee!
Aug 25, 2005
10,918
13,352
It’s just pretty obvious he ain’t working hard enough, he just seems to have this laid back go with the flow attitude and right now we need players that will go against the flow.

He may be a supremely talented player but at the moment he looks like a player who’s sulking and doesn’t really want to be here. He seems to think he’s better than us and his plan was premier league for a season then the bright lights of Madrid or Barcelona but unfortunately he’s more Adel Taarabt at the moment that our midfield answer.

Tomorrow will tell if he gets no minutes José has made his mind up and we have to back him.

For the record I wanted tanguy destroy Barcelona and few seasons back and a few other teams but even then he had this nonchalance about him although I would love to see his tackle stats for his 3 seasons previous if anyone can do that?
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,776
99,338
I think the biggest take away that i've had to accept, and I see some in here starting to as well is maybe he just isn't applying himself in the way he should be, and regardless of how much talent you have, you don't just put that player into the team as it sends the wrong message and it would be inherently wrong to the players actively trying their best. What that means for the future I have no idea, but if the application isn't there he shouldn't be in the team regardless of ability but I just hope he takes that in the right way rather than just jumps ship. If he does end up just moving on I feel questions over his application/commitment will plague him forever which would be a massive waste of a clearly very talented football player

Read the first line and knew I was in the right thread lol
 
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