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While I think the banner approach is idiotic and makes us look bad (not that I care) it’s also one of the best options to get recognized and talked about. People aren’t going to be canceling their ST - well some maybe. But someone else will just buy it anyways.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
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Totally disagree.
Wolves, Sheffield United, Everton, even Chelsea in fact all clubs have been abiding by FFP (apart from Manchester City with their still to be proved inflated deals).
Why other clubs seemingly have improved compared to us over the years is because they spend up to what FFP has allowed them to.
We had a surplus of some £400m for FFP purposes over the last 3 seasons, because we chose profits over improving the squad.
The stadium build is really red herring, we could easily have spent £200m plus on players and borrowed more against stadium, or chosen to have spent £300m less on building stadium, but it was a vanity project as much as anything, but be clear on something, it was club decisions not to spend on players, rather than being in any way financially handicapped.
I think the spending on the stadium has more to do with the belief it would generate more money by standing out as a venue. This very much looked to be paying off pre-covid.

It is true that because ENIC/Joe Lewis do not want to put money into the club that we haven't spent our capacity according to FFP. But, few clubs actually would.
 

Bubble44

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
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Title runs and a champions league final, with genuinely great high points. All from the 6th biggest club in the country, not in terms of some historical thing (where we lie somewhere between 8th and 6th as well) but in term of actual financial income coming into the club. If we got a rich owner at the right time that may have been different. But those days are gone, money can help, but you can't do a Man City or a Chelsea these days without penalisation.
Not sure I agree with being happy / grateful because we nearly won something, but if you think that is acceptable that's your opinion.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,905
78,640
The problem isn't necessarily investment, it's the strategy behind it.

I know football fans have a tendency to say "Spend some money" but that isn't why most are aggrieved with Levy.

It's the arrogant way he operates. Believing that he is the best person to get the deals done, when he ends up screwing most of them up and losing the faith of the coach in the process. The way he buys players behind his coach's back.

He hasn't updated the club's recruitment strategy and is arrogant enough to think he should be part of that committee who decides who the club buys.

Also, over the last 3 years or so theres been no real strategy in how we replace ageing or regressed players.

In typical fashion, when Walker left, he wouldn't pay out for Perreira or Cancelo so we got Aurier instead. Once again he went with the easy option.

That's why I'm aggrieved. It's always the easier option with him, always the bargain.

I imagine that once the stadium had been built and we had the opening ceremony, Levy would have that he was on a pedestal and fans were more than happy with him and the club. It's why banners (whilst petty and a bit silly) may just make him realise he needs to go his game on the recruitment side. He will hate the fact the club are receiving that kind of PR.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Not sure I agree with being happy / grateful because we nearly won something, but if you think that is acceptable that's your opinion.
I'm not saying be grateful or happy. Though I hope you got a chance to enjoy it. I'm saying that this was a massive overachievement, and that can't be overstated.

You can want more, you can be unsatisfied, I hope the players feel that way, and I have an itch to scratch too. But it is simply delusional to expect more. Wish and want yes, but the reality is we are not big enough, yet, to really see this as normality. The stadium is crucial absolutely crucial to allowing us a long term future in staying where we are/were and hopefully more.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

The problem isn't necessarily investment, it's the strategy behind it.

I know football fans have a tendency to say "Spend some money" but that isn't why most are aggrieved with Levy.

It's the arrogant way he operates. Believing that he is the best person to get the deals done, when he ends up screwing most of them up and losing the faith of the coach in the process. The way he buys players behind his coach's back.

He hasn't updated the club's recruitment strategy and is arrogant enough to think he should be part of that committee who decides who the club buys.

Also, over the last 3 years or so theres been no real strategy in how we replace ageing or regressed players.

In typical fashion, when Walker left, he wouldn't pay out for Perreira or Cancelo so we got Aurier instead. Once again he went with the easy option.

That's why I'm aggrieved. It's always the easier option with him, always the bargain.

I imagine that once the stadium had been built and we had the opening ceremony, Levy would have that he was on a pedestal and fans were more than happy with him and the club. It's why banners (whilst petty and a bit silly) may just make him realise he needs to go his game on the recruitment side. He will hate the fact the club are receiving that kind of PR.
Agree with everything up to the banner. Bottom line hurts him and ENIC more. Only hope is the combined bad press that might come from the banner along with the titanic proportion embarrassment this Amazon Docu. brings with it (whether he has final edit or not) opens his eyes to the plight of the football team on the pitch. I doubt it.

Off the pitch, some very good things over two decades off it ... I can understand your frustration and others who have been vocal for all the years I have lurked/posted on these boards and elsewhere.
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
55,533
204,721
So.....that statue of him that people wanted putting up outside the new stadium............is that a no now?

I only ask because I shaved my action man's head and have a bucket of concrete ready to stand it in. Just say the word.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
Why is it a disgrace? ENIC and Levy are a disgrace how they’ve sucked the soul out of our club and don’t care about winning only profit. It won’t make them sell up but it’ll get some attention at least and trust me Levy will be well aware of it, he won’t like the PR it will
bring. I don’t give a fuck if other rivals fans laugh, we are a shit show on the pitch and there is no coherent plan.

It will make our fans come across like a bunch of entitled c*nts. We’ve just enjoyed our most consistent period of high league finishes in the prem era and went to a champions league final. We now also have best stadium and training centre in the world. As well as one of the most highly decorated managers in world football In charge.

We have a dip for one season. A dip that each club in the top 6 has had at some point and fans want to cry about it like we have god given right never to have any kind of slump. It’s fucking embarrassing. Levy has made mistakes, like all chairman, but he’s got far more right than he has wrong. Most fans of other clubs bar 3-4 would love to be in our position. That banner will just make us look like a banter club.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
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There have been mistakes, though hindsight is 20/20, people complaining we didn't get Fernandes in the summer, for example. A large section of fans really didn't want Fernandes, they didn't think he was that good. But I guess Levy and the team were supposed to predict he was.

The no transfer window was not a good thing, and didn't help anyone, but I think, even that was more complicated to just pin it on the board. Levy is flawed, I think he is too quick to change direction, he loves the a DoF being one of the first clubs in the UK to introduce one, then he scraps it and all that, managers as well. He has frustrating way of dealing with transfers, but yet we have been able to create a strong team. The thing is though, unlike most teams, ENIC's Tottenham has more or less developed in a straight line, with very few long lasting set backs, normally a season at most. I have attached a retro looking chart showing how our position as a club has changed under ENIC

graph.jpg
 
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Bubble44

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
269
14,090
I'm not saying be grateful or happy. Though I hope you got a chance to enjoy it. I'm saying that this was a massive overachievement, and that can't be overstated.

You can want more, you can be unsatisfied, I hope the players feel that way, and I have an itch to scratch too. But it is simply delusional to expect more. Wish and want yes, but there not big enough, yet, to really see this as normality. The stadium is crucial absolutely crucial to allowing us a long term future in staying where we are/were and hopefully more.

You said that we didn't deserve what we had been given which in effect was nearly winning something.
Our fans have gone through 20 odd years of winning nothing under ENIC, have supported the club in our thousands and IMO we deserve a lot more.
One question you have to ask yourself is why it is an overachievement, are our owners not good enough after being charge of the club 20 years? Does it take 20 years to become successful?
As for the new stadium being the answer to all our prayers , lets wait and see. similar was said about making the CL.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
There have been mistakes, though hindsight is 20/20, people complaining we didn't get Fernandes in the summer, for example. A large section of fans really didn't want Fernandes, they didn't think he was that good. But I guess people were supposed to predict he was.

The none transfer window was not a good thing, and didn't help anyone, but I think, even that was more complicated to just pin it on the board. There mistakes, Levy is too quick to sack something and change direction, he loves the a DoF being one of the first clubs in the UK to introduce one, then he scraps it and all that. He has frustrating way of dealing with transfers, but yet we have been able to create a strong team. The thing is though, unlike most teams, ENIC's Tottenham has more or less developed in a straight line, with very few long lasting set backs, normally a season at most.

View attachment 70016
For comparison I will show you another retro looking chart. This time of the 19 seasons before ENIC. SO we see a gradual downward trend with great inconsistency. Teams used to generally be more inconsistent I know, but the one season good, one season bad from the 80s is really something! But there is a clear downward decline here. No plan, no consistency just mess, even in the 80s.
graph (2).jpg
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
While I think the banner approach is idiotic and makes us look bad (not that I care) it’s also one of the best options to get recognized and talked about. People aren’t going to be canceling their ST - well some maybe. But someone else will just buy it anyways.
Is the banner dumb? Yeah. It’s a waste of time and money and gives even more fodder to everyone.

Lets be real though, no banner is going to make us look as foolish as ENIC does at the end of every Summer as they try to justify screwing us with our pants on and being penny wise, pound foolish. No banner is going to make us look as foolish as Spurs do every game.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
You said that we didn't deserve what we had been given which in effect was nearly winning something.
Our fans have gone through 20 odd years of winning nothing under ENIC, have supported the club in our thousands and IMO we deserve a lot more.
One question you have to ask yourself is why it is an overachievement, are our owners not good enough after being charge of the club 20 years? Does it take 20 years to become successful?
As for the new stadium being the answer to all our prayers , lets wait and see. similar was said about making the CL.
No mate, no fan deserves trophies just for being a fan.

This is the kind of logic that makes people hate Tottenham really. Like think of Newcastle fans, which generated more revenue than we did when ENIC took over. Newcastle last won a major trophy in 1969, A Everton Fan in 1995 and I could go on.

There is nothing particularly long suffering about being a Spurs fan, and you say it like supporting in our thousands has been a chore, but we have it good. We are not 30,000 Sunderland or Leeds fans watching some terrible stuff in league 1. No, we have been watching European football, some really great games and some magical moments that the vast majority of teams will kill for. Yes I'm desperate to win something, we have been close on numerous occasions, I think while ENIC can take some portion of the blame, I think we have still had the teams and opportunities to win something, just didn't quite make it. What Bill Nicholson said is true

“It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. At Spurs we set our sights very high, so that even failure will have in it an echo of glory.”

But we have had a pretty nice echo these last few years.

It's overachievment because our club is not popular enough, and didn't have the infrastructure to produce enough revenue. This is changing. The new stadium is not the answer to all our prayers, it is just the only way, and I mean only way, to compete long term with the other top 6. This where great strides have been taken. We can't do a Man City, who just bribe their way into commercial popularity and sponsor ourselves with a dodgy deal, Chelsea did similar, bribe themselves to popularity etc.

But ENIC have dealt with that side very well. You can't really criticise there. Especially considering our financial equivalents at the time were Newcastle, Leeds and Aston Villa, who have all done so well.
 

Albertbarich

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2020
5,082
19,484
There are issues with the club at the moment I think we can all agree so the banner is just some people's way if showing their frustration. Yes the best way to send a message is to stop spending money on the club but I guess this is just a starting point.

We have suffered a lot over the years so I'm not going to begrudge some people showing their voice in the only way possible at the moment.
 

Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,121
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If you look at our history the 90s up until that point was the worst period, before that we had always won trophies and competed and even broke transfer records. The fact that we are now seen as mid table and that we should be grateful for ENIC lifting us up to top six while not winning anything significant doesn't sit right
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
If you look at our history the 90s up until that point was the worst period, before that we had always won trophies and competed and even broke transfer records. The fact that we are now seen as mid table and that we should be grateful for ENIC lifting us up to top six while not winning anything significant doesn't sit right
Top 6? This season yes. Over the last decade our average finish is 4th and that includes 6 top
4 finishes in ten years, two of which were 3rd and one of which is 2nd. In terms of league placement it’s been our best decade since the 60s, where average league placement was again 4th but of course we won the league so it was clearly a better stretch in the league just for that reason. The difference is that in those decades the team won trophies, and that we’ve not even won one in this last decade is unacceptable but with a team good enough to finish that consistently high we really should have. We’ve been close enough times:

18/19: CL final; league cup semi
17/18: FA cup semi
16/17: FA cup semi
11/12: FA cup semi
9/10: FA cup semi

We’ve also been quarter finalists across competitions three times, and were league cup finalists in the last season of the 08/09 season, but for the sake of a ten year sample size I don’t include those, but we’ve been consistently close to silverware and that we’ve not got over the line is shit, but also not reflective of our quality.

My point? That our team has actually, league finishes supported, been our best in the last decade barring the double season, and that the lack of trophies is not because of a lack of quality. There is obviously something lacking but the team has had the ability, both pre and post Pochettino.
 
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Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,121
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Top 6? This season yes. Over the last decade our average finish is 4th and that includes 6 top
4 finishes in ten years, two of which were 3rd and one of which is 2nd. In terms of league placement it’s been our best decade since the 60s. The difference is that in those decades the team won trophies, and that we’ve not even won one in this last decade is unacceptable but with a team good enough to finish that consistently high we really should have.

I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. My opinion now is that we have to win trophies thats what this club needs
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
The trophy argument is a funny one because I can definitely think of good opportunities we’ve had that have been wasted by bad tactical or player mistakes.

- losing the league cup final to Blackburn under Hoddle when we were clearly the better side.
- Being beaten by Portsmouth in the FA cup semi final when we were far superior and would have then just had to beat Cardiff in the final.
- Being beaten by Chelsea in the FA Cup semi after dominating them but every shot of theirs went in and Poch made the weird decision of playing Son at wing back.
- Dominating Man U in a FA Cup semi only to lose focus in the second half and lose 2-1 from being 1-0 up.

In all these incidents we were the better side both on the day and in paper but lapses of concentration or tactical failings meant we didn’t win the trophy or progress to a final which would have given a good opportunity to win a trophy. Can these failings really be blamed on the ownership?
 
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