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Player Watch Player Watch: Son Heung-min

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
I think 3-5-2 is a good shout and Winks has also had some of his better games in that system.

Alternatively we need to go proper 4-3-3 with Son not staying out so wide with a Bergwijn on other flank providing the wing play.
Why not go 4-4-2? I mean it's due a return, and teams like Atletico Madrid currently are doing well with it. Ok, you lose out on the midfield, but it's easy to be defensively organised, and Son and Kane are good and clever enough players to do damage from it. The way Atletico do it is with one CM and a hard working winger with width still largely coming from fullbacks. This is to try and counter balance the being outnumbered problem.

It could legit work. Football is cyclical and 4-4-2 is definitely due a return. We would need another competent number, but I can say Dele fitting in that role quite well, in fact it might suit him perfectly, and Lucas could cover as well. I'm warming to it.

Something like this

Son Kane
Lucas Winks Lo Celso Sissoko
Davies Dier Toby Aurier
Lloris​

or alternate

Dele Lucas
bergwijn Skipp N'Dombele Lo Celso
Sess Tanganga Sanchez Foyth
Lloris
Now obviously, I'm only using players that, for now, are at the club next seasoon and strengthening would be needed. I'm also not trying to suggest 1st team second team, just looking at potential options is all. But I actually really like the look of this. Lo Celso could easily do a Koke type job and I can see this actually helping Son, Dele and Kane get to their best. We are likely to play a lot more deep balls and play without the ball for large portions of the match but I like it.
 
Last edited:

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832
Why not go 4-4-2? I mean it's due a return, and teams like Atletico Madrid currently are doing well with it. Ok, you lose out on the midfield, but it's easy to be defensively organised, and Son and Kane are good and clever enough players to do damage from it. The way Atletico do it is with one CM and a hard working winger with width still largely coming from fullbacks. This is to try and counter balance the being outnumbered problem.

It could legit work. Football is cyclical and 4-4-2 is definitely due a return. We would need another competent number, but I can say Dele fitting in that role quite well, in fact it might suit him perfectly, and Lucas could cover as well. I'm warming to it.

Something like this

Son Kane
Lucas Winks Lo Celso Sissoko
Davies Dier Toby Aurier
Lloris​

or alternate

Dele Lucas
bergwijn Skipp N'Dombele Lo Celso
Sess Tanganga Sanchez Foyth
Lloris
Now obviously, I'm only using players that, for now, are at the club next seasoon and strengthening would be needed. I'm also not trying to suggest 1st team second team, just looking at potential options is all. But I actually really like the look of this. Lo Celso could easily do a Koke type job and I can see this actually helping Son, Dele and Kane get to their best. We are likely to play a lot more deep balls and play without the ball for large portions of the match but I like it.

If we have a proper dm who is a positionally discipline and a box to box cm who has two main traits: 1. Positionally discipline and cover the ground 2. Can dribble like ndombele/moussa dembele , I think we can easily play 442 formation ...

Even Lo Celso can be used as right or left winger but he will not play as winger rather right or left sided midfielder and without the ball will defend as a winger - I think this system can bring the best of Son, Dele and Kane as kane is not getting younger and he needs support in the final third.. Also when son plays as a winger, we miss his finishing ability inside the box and we all know dele is at his best when he runs to the channel and play as a support striker ...
 
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aussiespursguy

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,437
6,677
If we can buy someone like greenwood or another left footed forward and have a proper DM(Hojberg) and a box to box cm like savic along with Lo Celso, I think we will see much more attacking intent in our play.

I am willing to give away both lamela and Moura for a left footed forward ...
"Give away" is something you don't want anymore, and is generally "Free"
But are the club willing to "give away"? Or are you really

levy.jpg
 

thekneaf

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
1,933
3,878
Sessegnon and Moura mean we're all stocked at traditional LW if that's how we line up going forward.
 

razzmaster

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
2,311
13,051
Sessegnon and Moura mean we're all stocked at traditional LW if that's how we line up going forward.

Moura, Son, Lamela, Bergwijn, Sessegnon and Lo Celso are all decent options on the left of a 442.

I really hope we stick with this formation as I think it suits our players and Mourinho's style of play.
 

thekneaf

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
1,933
3,878
Only concern is lack of a midfield force, as with basically any formation since Wanyama, Dembele and DM Dier all fell apart in the same 6 months.
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
Why not go 4-4-2? I mean it's due a return, and teams like Atletico Madrid currently are doing well with it. Ok, you lose out on the midfield, but it's easy to be defensively organised, and Son and Kane are good and clever enough players to do damage from it. The way Atletico do it is with one CM and a hard working winger with width still largely coming from fullbacks. This is to try and counter balance the being outnumbered problem.

It could legit work. Football is cyclical and 4-4-2 is definitely due a return. We would need another competent number, but I can say Dele fitting in that role quite well, in fact it might suit him perfectly, and Lucas could cover as well. I'm warming to it.

Something like this

Son Kane
Lucas Winks Lo Celso Sissoko
Davies Dier Toby Aurier
Lloris​

or alternate

Dele Lucas
bergwijn Skipp N'Dombele Lo Celso
Sess Tanganga Sanchez Foyth
Lloris
Now obviously, I'm only using players that, for now, are at the club next seasoon and strengthening would be needed. I'm also not trying to suggest 1st team second team, just looking at potential options is all. But I actually really like the look of this. Lo Celso could easily do a Koke type job and I can see this actually helping Son, Dele and Kane get to their best. We are likely to play a lot more deep balls and play without the ball for large portions of the match but I like it.

Not against 4-4-2 by any means, especially if means return of the classic strike partnership.

But I’ve always quite liked 3-5-2 as well - we played some of our best stuff with adapted version of 3-4-3 when we finished second and would maybe suit Sessegnon on left and a new pacy right back in the summer.

At the moment we could play:

Lloris

Sanchez Alderweireld Davies

Aurier Ndombele Winks Lo Celso Sessegnon

Kane Son


With possibility of maybe Skipp replacing one of the midfield three if we want a more out and out defensive midfielder.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Not against 4-4-2 by any means, especially if means return of the classic strike partnership.

But I’ve always quite liked 3-5-2 as well - we played some of our best stuff with adapted version of 3-4-3 when we finished second and would maybe suit Sessegnon on left and a new pacy right back in the summer.

At the moment we could play:

Lloris

Sanchez Alderweireld Davies

Aurier Ndombele Winks Lo Celso Sessegnon

Kane Son


With possibility of maybe Skipp replacing one of the midfield three if we want a more out and out defensive midfielder.
I'm not against it, just don't think Jose's style will suit three at the back, it can be defensively hard to organise, particularly if you don't have two people sitting deep. I mean few teams play 3 at the back regularly, Arsenal and Chelsea have experemented I guess, but both play with a higher line and have had trouble defensively, so I suspect a three man defence is in part to allow their wide men to play more centrally as well as having a free man at the back to sweep.

I mean it was super in vogue, but people learnt to counter press it well and also learnt to expose the flanks. Conte makes it work because of the way he coaches attacking movement and playing on the counter, he likes opening up play by using width and creating overloads with wing backs with quick decisive play and movements. I don't think anyone has matched his ability to do that, mind he also requires a work-man midfield to make it work, which we are very far from having the right players to do so.

Again, I'm not against it. But, I think it had it's moment and find moving to a 4-4-2 simply a more interesting preposition. 3 at the back also opens a lot of space out wide. This is fine, if you keep the central areas compact, but can be troublesome, especially if the centre backs play far apart from each other to compensate. It can work defensively but it is much more complex than two banks of 4. I mean part of the reason 4-4-2 has had enduring success is that it is very simple and effective defensively. Since possession started becoming more important, it became less popular, but now that lots of teams play without it I can see a future with a 4-4-2.

Adiamond has advantages as well, but the midfield can get overstretched, if people use the flanks well enough, though has an advantage of having three attackers in a central area of the pitch, and can end up with 4 to 3 midfielders in the middle of the park. I think the negatives outweigh the benefits. Though was very popular in Italy when Jose was there, contrary to what some might think he was not a pioneer of the midfield diamond, half the clubs in Italy played it at the time. He did use it to counter tiki-taka though, but that was because that was a system that was all about overloading central areas, and Jose's very defensive diamond worked very well in clogging the gaps in the centre. Now wingers are more in fashion, and pressing play is the new obsession I'm sceptical of seeing a comeback!
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
I’ve long felt that a return to 442 would be the eventual antidote to the trend of the past decade to lean towards possession hungry 3/5 man midfields. That’s just how football works, a style and formation becomes the new innovation, every other coach mimics it, then teams figure it out and adapt to it, then the previous commonly used styles are less prepared for and all of a sudden a top club (so not Burnley) reverts to the old ways, it works and it becomes the new way again. Wash rinse repeat.

Right now top teams play a front three with flying full backs and the wide men up front tucking in, and centre backs who are footballers first but defenders second. How do you counter that? Make centre backs have to defend again by occupying them with two strikers not one, pin the attacking fullbacks back by giving them genuine wisemen to think about in midfield again, ensure there’s a quick player near target man man so that if you can’t play through the press, bypass it and get play focussed on the flanks, not the centre where they all want it. As with any formation it takes the right players, but I reckon if Ferguson’s 99 side or even our 11/12 side suddenly came into existence now, it’d give Klopps Liverpool and Peps City far more issues than all these sides trying to either shut them out of beat them at their own game.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
8,958
28,085
Playing him up front with Kane is the way to go I think - if they can get a good understanding going it could be devastating. Both are naturally incredibly greedy players though so they do need to work on it. Son is kinda wasted out wide and I think Kane will benefit from having him up with him.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
I cant understand Son. He has great goals in him and can run. But lately we have seen him languish like Dele languishes and his decisions have been like Lamela, running into defenders.
 

Wig

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2018
2,812
11,078
I cant understand Son. He has great goals in him and can run. But lately we have seen him languish like Dele languishes and his decisions have been like Lamela, running into defenders.
I don't mind him "languishing" if that means getting MOTM performances with a goal and assist each game like he achieved against Arsenal. You're as good as your last game, and his last one was productive to say the least
 

Cochise

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
4,762
12,519

I didn't see this until today. I see he's using the defence of DVD = Spurs selling a DVD of the match, but "DVD's going off"..... nah mate, doesn't make a bit of sense.
 

TorontoYid

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2013
1,640
1,691
I don't mind him "languishing" if that means getting MOTM performances with a goal and assist each game like he achieved against Arsenal. You're as good as your last game, and his last one was productive to say the least
He scored but he could easily have had more but in the last few matches he seems off and has been making some pretty questionable decisions. Something has him rattled and it needs to get resolved
 

punkisback

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2004
4,410
7,278
He’s far better playing as a forward than as a traditional winger. Needs to line up as a WF or a striker, he’s completely wasted hugging the touchline.
I’ve long felt that a return to 442 would be the eventual antidote to the trend of the past decade to lean towards possession hungry 3/5 man midfields. That’s just how football works, a style and formation becomes the new innovation, every other coach mimics it, then teams figure it out and adapt to it, then the previous commonly used styles are less prepared for and all of a sudden a top club (so not Burnley) reverts to the old ways, it works and it becomes the new way again. Wash rinse repeat.

Right now top teams play a front three with flying full backs and the wide men up front tucking in, and centre backs who are footballers first but defenders second. How do you counter that? Make centre backs have to defend again by occupying them with two strikers not one, pin the attacking fullbacks back by giving them genuine wisemen to think about in midfield again, ensure there’s a quick player near target man man so that if you can’t play through the press, bypass it and get play focussed on the flanks, not the centre where they all want it. As with any formation it takes the right players, but I reckon if Ferguson’s 99 side or even our 11/12 side suddenly came into existence now, it’d give Klopps Liverpool and Peps City far more issues than all these sides trying to either shut them out of beat them at their own game.
I've been saying a 442 trumps a wingback system as it gives 2 banks of Wide players to trouble the oppositions only set. This allows for an overload in the opposition defence especially a 3-4-3 system which creates overloads in midfield as well.
There's a reason Hoddles wingback system with us was such a disaster!
 

dannythomas

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2004
3,757
2,813
He scored but he could easily have had more but in the last few matches he seems off and has been making some pretty questionable decisions. Something has him rattled and it needs to get resolved
In the previous few matches he was playing as an isolated winger not as part of a twin strike force.
 
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