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Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 666 46.7%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 468 32.8%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 292 20.5%

  • Total voters
    1,426

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Monumental man management failure if Dele leaves the club. Mourinho just seems to always need someone to blame and this would be a huge mistake in my opinion. Dele is still young and has massive potential.
What is mourinho blaming Dele for? The strange smell in the canteen? The bounty wrappers littering the car park? Our opponents tiny goals the other night?
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
feckin hell

It's hardly a "flat earth" statement. First season was by no means very good watch, neither was the last. Second season was the one where we drew loads of games and was a bit patchy and it was painful watch Leicester coast to an easy title whilst we struggled to kill off games. Third was immense. Fourth was quite good but started getting AVB-esq, and we went back to drawing loads of games against crap teams and getting beat by top 4 rivals.

I just don't think I enjoy possession football generally. I'm pretty sure you could search the old match threads and see that it isn't a wild opinion.
 

PaulM

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2005
560
2,393
It's hardly a "flat earth" statement. First season was by no means very good watch, neither was the last. Second season was the one where we drew loads of games and was a bit patchy and it was painful watch Leicester coast to an easy title whilst we struggled to kill off games. Third was immense. Fourth was quite good but started getting AVB-esq, and we went back to drawing loads of games against crap teams and getting beat by top 4 rivals.

I just don't think I enjoy possession football generally. I'm pretty sure you could search the old match threads and see that it isn't a wild opinion.

You didn't get excited by the emergence of the young players in his first season? The Chelsea hammering? Mason, Bentaleb and Kane?

You didn't get excited by our best league finish since 1990. Our first genuine title run since the mid 80s?

You didn't get excited by the CL run?

F**k me. Poch's reign was the greatest thing to happen this club in my 35 years supporting the club.
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
You didn't get excited by the emergence of the young players in his first season? The Chelsea hammering? Mason, Bentaleb and Kane?

No, because it happened in the season before to a greater extent. Poch didn't play Kane until mid November - he was a regular at the end of Sherwood's stint, and Bentaleb was the pantomime villian for being a regular in the season before.

You didn't get excited by our best league finish since 1990. Our first genuine title run since the mid 80s?

Yes, that's literally the season I mentioned

You didn't get excited by the CL run?

It's by this point I can see you're not getting the distinction. I didn't "enjoy" any of the games and I would defy anyone who did, because we were a hair's breadth from being knocked out at every single stage tbh, and we essentially got to the final by playing long ball. If you are arguing the CL performances were exciting or enjoyable then I definitely don't think you would be justified in criticising the style of play Mourinho would bring.

F**k me. Poch's reign was the greatest thing to happen this club in my 35 years supporting the club.

Again, I don't think you're understanding the point. Results and not enjoying the style of football aren't mutually exclusive. We simply did not have 5 years of Barcelona-esq football. It's like looking at the stats for AVBs season and saying "we beat Man Utd, we got 72 points, Bale was peak", but everyone knows that the style was crap and individual performances dug us out of holes.



The attempt to glue together results and success in a period to a style of football is flawed. You can recognise Poch as one of the best managers we've had, and the period as the most successful we've had in the PL whilst at the same time enjoying a lot of it far less than other periods.

Mourinho could win us a treble and people could still be justified in criticising the enjoyability of the football separately from the accomplishments.
 

glacierSpurs

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2013
16,163
25,472
I like Jenas as a pundit but why does her have an agenda against Mourinho, its so obvious.


As a former player (and also an ambassador of the club is he?), what Jenas currently commenting is just so disgraceful. His was not being helpful in his thoughts, but instead causing a wedge between the relationship of Dele and Mourinho, and also possibly dressing room unrest. He has not seen what Mourinho has seen every day - is such a one-sided view.

And such reactions will only drop the youngsters' morales and possibly not bucking up to prove the gaffer wrong but will instead look for the easy way out and exit.

He should just shut up in this case TBH.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Monumental man management failure if Dele leaves the club. Mourinho just seems to always need someone to blame and this would be a huge mistake in my opinion. Dele is still young and has massive potential.

You're speaking as if he's 21 and just come off the back of two YPOTY awards, he hasn't been that good consistently since 2017/18, he's been dropped from the England team as well, he's well off the pace.

This is the Ndombele thing all over again, people unable to apply critical thinking to the situation and are just desperate to hang onto forced narratives just because its Jose and just because it alings with their agenda against him.
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
18,320
33,955
You're speaking as if he's 21 and just come off the back of two YPOTY awards, he hasn't been that good consistently since 2017/18, he's been dropped from the England team as well, he's well off the pace.

This is the Ndombele thing all over again, people unable to apply critical thinking to the situation and are just desperate to hang onto forced narratives just because its Jose and just because it alings with their agenda against him.
Or some people just think getting shot of Dele would be a mistake.
 

thekneaf

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
1,933
3,878
This whole argument is bogus. Dele appeared to be trying on Tuesday. It just wasn't clicking. As long as he's trying and working hard in training that's the main thing. But he won't get serious minutes until he's productive. Not in a squad with our current depth.
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,313
Or some people just think getting shot of Dele would be a mistake.
Its nonsense about it being a complete failure of man management by Jose, it completely ignores the context that Dele has been playing far below his best for 2 different managers.
At some point Dele has to assume responsibility for his form.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,905
78,640
What exactly is it Jenas thinks Mourinho has done wrong?
I think the 'arm around the shoulder' and 'loving warm man-management' from Poch was something a lot of people enjoyed seeing and believed to be the way forward into getting the best out of players. So I think Jenas is of the thought that that is all that is needed to get Dele back to his best.

Yet, has forgetting the last 2-3 years and how Molly coddling Dele in the last period probably hasn't helped at all because he's got complacent and hasn't had the fire in his belly.
 

Johno1470

The worst thing about prison was the dementors
Aug 6, 2018
1,026
4,857
Since Jose's arrival I've seen nothing alarming in terms of man management. If anything, he's been exceptional. TND was clearly not trying and had personal issues to sort out. He admitted that himself in the interview with Levy in the doc. He seems to have turned a corner and hopefully he continues to make a positive impact to the team.

In Jose's first week he highlighted that he was watching Dele's brother. Not a direct criticism but just a public message that Dele has been a shadow of his former self. He was correct in saying this as Dele hadn't been good enough at that stage. Jose got a few good games out of Dele as soon as he started. We were then struck with injuries and then COVID. Fast forward to where we are at now and since post lockdown games started, Alli has been a passenger. Dele hasn't been the only one that's been poor but he is the one that has that world class level performances in his locker. Jose is just like us fans, who are frustrated with the level of performance and output we are getting from Alli currently.

Just because we have a manager in Jose who had fallen out with Pogba in his most recent job, does not mean he is following the same narrative and picking on Alli. The situation is completely different in my eyes. It will be interesting to see how it pans out in the next few months but we need to back our manager rather than falling for lazy journalism and pundits who are blaming Jose for Alli's poor spell (that started long before Jose even arrived!).
 

Havre

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
829
1,065
I think the 'arm around the shoulder' and 'loving warm man-management' from Poch was something a lot of people enjoyed seeing and believed to be the way forward into getting the best out of players. So I think Jenas is of the thought that that is all that is needed to get Dele back to his best.

Yet, has forgetting the last 2-3 years and how Molly coddling Dele in the last period probably hasn't helped at all because he's got complacent and hasn't had the fire in his belly.

But surely no-one believes that there is just carrots? I don't mind the arm around at all. I would argue it works a lot better than being "tough" on someone in general, but it's not like Mourinho is throwing Alli under the bus here. He still is very clear about liking Alli, but he has given him a challenge. If Alli can't handle that I would say he is the problem and not Mourinho.

As for Pochettino he was pretty ruthless himself, but I guess he never had to be ruthless with a player many fans liked. Not sure if someone like Bentaleb og Walker-Peters think Pochettino treated them brilliantly.
 

jurgen

Busy ****
Jul 5, 2008
6,710
17,167
It's hardly a "flat earth" statement. First season was by no means very good watch, neither was the last. Second season was the one where we drew loads of games and was a bit patchy and it was painful watch Leicester coast to an easy title whilst we struggled to kill off games. Third was immense. Fourth was quite good but started getting AVB-esq, and we went back to drawing loads of games against crap teams and getting beat by top 4 rivals.

I just don't think I enjoy possession football generally. I'm pretty sure you could search the old match threads and see that it isn't a wild opinion.

What you've described sounds like a completely different history to the one where we actually had a positive identity again (following the Tactics Tim poison), where we put together a sequence of league finishes absolutely unheard of before Poch, finally finished ahead of Arsenal, and where we regularly ripped teams apart - and were the toast of pundits and other fans alike for our football. Yes the CL run was 'nail biting' but the goal vs. Ajax is about the best moment I've ever had supporting Spurs. I mean yes it is your opinion that you might not have enjoyed a lot of that time, but it certainly seems an unusual one and a very negative reading of things.
 

ClintEastwould

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2012
4,748
9,845
It's hardly a "flat earth" statement. First season was by no means very good watch, neither was the last. Second season was the one where we drew loads of games and was a bit patchy and it was painful watch Leicester coast to an easy title whilst we struggled to kill off games. Third was immense. Fourth was quite good but started getting AVB-esq, and we went back to drawing loads of games against crap teams and getting beat by top 4 rivals.

I just don't think I enjoy possession football generally. I'm pretty sure you could search the old match threads and see that it isn't a wild opinion.

No mate I think this is just indicative and another example of people rewriting history as if 16/17 was the only good season Poch mustered up. It’s getting boring now sorry.
 

buckley

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2012
2,595
6,073
For me any player that includes Dele who gets upset with criticism needs to have a long look in the mirror at themselves . The best way any person in any job can react to critics is to say " f..k you " roll up their sleeves and show their detractors how wrong they are .
The question is for Dele to answer is he a snowflake or a tough nut . I think he has been drifting for two years and needs to show more if he wants to start games . My guess is he will take the easy way out and ask to move as it may be beyond him to improve .
To blame any manager for trying to get more out of a player is in essence 100% wrong .
Those that on this site that are blaming Jose for this fall out I think you will find they did not want Jose to start with and fallouts like the one with Dele is manna from the gods .
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
No mate I think this is just indicative and another example of people rewriting history as if 16/17 was the only good season Poch mustered up. It’s getting boring now sorry.

Not at all - I think people are getting a bit precious about me segregated the definition of a 'good' or 'successful' season from an enjoyable one. Thing is, it isn't even rewriting history - people were generally frustrated with a LOT of Poch's match management beyond where we were finishing - he was awful at handling subs, for example. That has never changed. A couple of years ago when he started the 'playing from the back' thing we declined hugely in our aesthetic. People notice and commented at the time (these things actually stand out more when you're reading the forums and not interacting).

What irks me is that people are making it seem like Mourinho has come in and instantly transformed us into a side that plays ugly football. For the most part, I don't see a huge difference between what we're doing now and what we were doing 2 or 3 years ago. The only main difference will be that if Mourinho wins trophies, people will probably forget about (and ultimately won't care) how we did it. It doesn't mean that we'd all have to pretend it was aesthetic though.

I think he knows that - you pick your path for the most part. You either play how you have to to achieve what is required. Mourinho does this, and in more relevant examples you have the Allardyce types who win games and get teams into mid-table who deserve to be lower, but fans complain because it's not beautiful. Doesn't mean it is ineffective or unsuccessful. Inversely, you can have managers who try to play good football but inevitably get sacked despite that because they aren't winning things or finishing high enough. So it therefore follows that playing attractive football does not also guarantee or indicate success or effectiveness.

As I've said, I just don't like passing teams to death. I'd rather see Son dribble the length of a pitch and score a GOTS, or see Bale bombing down the wing and smashing one in, or Lucas getting on the end of a knockdown. That's exciting and memorable stuff for me, and pretty much all of it tends to result from play that is automatically categorised as boring/negative football. It's likely just down to subjectivity.
 

Casparian

Living in a Lillywhite Dreamland.
Jul 13, 2008
2,142
4,247
The Playbook episode is great. Also has this cheeky gem:

‘Even before I dive, I’m wet already’.

Lol
The man is a natural born winner, so much proof in that episode of the lengths he will go to for his team. Even risked himself physically and careerwise to outsmart Fifa and support his men. Jose don't coach players he coaches teams, get onboard or get left behind.
 

NEVILLEB

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2006
6,733
6,335
You're speaking as if he's 21 and just come off the back of two YPOTY awards, he hasn't been that good consistently since 2017/18, he's been dropped from the England team as well, he's well off the pace.

This is the Ndombele thing all over again, people unable to apply critical thinking to the situation and are just desperate to hang onto forced narratives just because its Jose and just because it alings with their agenda against him.

No there’s no great conspiracy Shadydan it’s just a different opinion than your own. Take a few days off the forum and get a grip.

He’s only 24!
 
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