Dele Alli at Everton

Basil Brush · Sep 29, 2020

There are 3 things that appear to be happening here

1) As i have previously touched on, Jose wants hard nosed players. Unfortunately this doesnt seem to be a strength of Dele.

2) Point 1 would be fine if Dele was firing on all cylinders. However, Dele appears to be have struggled a fair bit since Jose arrived, and does he have a role into Jose structures?

3) Jose has been told he needs to raise funds (trim his squad) if he wants to bring in more players. Who has the most value of all the players that Jose doesnt necessarily like? The obbious one is Dele, but i cant see levy accepting pittance for him. That is why i see a loan happening.

I am not sure how this ends if Dele stays, unless he can turn Jose around.

Snarfalicious · Sep 29, 2020

Basil Brush said:
There are 3 things that appear to be happening here

1) As i have previously touched on, Jose wants hard nosed players. Unfortunately this doesnt seem to be a strength of Dele.

2) Point 1 would be fine if Dele was firing on all cylinders. However, Dele appears to be have struggled a fair bit since Jose arrived, and does he have a role into Jose structures?

3) Jose has been told he needs to raise funds (trim his squad) if he wants to bring in more players. Who has the most value of all the players that Jose doesnt necessarily like? The obbious one is Dele, but i cant see levy accepting pittance for him. That is why i see a loan happening.

I am not sure how this ends if Dele stays, unless he can turn Jose around.

I agree on all points. I also looked up what “obbious” meant. Really wanted that to be a real word.

Basil Brush · Sep 30, 2020

Snarfalicious said:
I agree on all points. I also looked up what “obbious” meant. Really wanted that to be a real word.

Obbious is a bit similar to obvious, but a lot stronger.

Joely · Sep 30, 2020

Not even a place on the bench in the last 2 games. Just feels like something is already lined up with him and we are maybe just negotiating the last few hurdles. One of those situations where it feels like the player, manager and the club are all accepting a move is for the best. Not convinced Levy will get the fee he wants this window so strongly suspect a loan.

It's unfortunate, as no doubting Dele has attributes which definitely bring something to the team. First few seasons with us he was doing brilliantly for someone so young and shouldn't be overlooked.

The problem for him imo is his skillset isn't wide enough and hasn't really added to his game and evolved. Just feels like his best position is still floating in and around Kane. Don't think there are too many managers out there who are prepared to build a team with that kind of player in this day and age.

My guess is Mourinho came in and recognised his qualities but wanted to develop his all round game to play him as the furthest in midfield. Giving him licence to push forward, join the attack and chip in with goals and assists as long as the rest of his game for a midfield position was sound. Maybe he feels that just isn't his game and its unlikely to happen.

I think Dele just prefers being found in the last third rather being the one tasked with finding teammates further up the pitch. He also thrives when he can find pockets of space between the midfield and striker. Probably less likely to find that in midfield. Where there is less time and space, don't think he is quick enough on the ball, especially when it comes to passing it.

Said it before, under Poch he kind of lucked out having such a colossus like Dembele behind him giving so much control in midfield and freeing him up to do his thing further up the pitch. Problem is, players like Dembele don't come around all that often.

fishhhandaricecake · Sep 30, 2020

Basil Brush said:
There are 3 things that appear to be happening here

1) As i have previously touched on, Jose wants hard nosed players. Unfortunately this doesnt seem to be a strength of Dele.

2) Point 1 would be fine if Dele was firing on all cylinders. However, Dele appears to be have struggled a fair bit since Jose arrived, and does he have a role into Jose structures?

3) Jose has been told he needs to raise funds (trim his squad) if he wants to bring in more players. Who has the most value of all the players that Jose doesnt necessarily like? The obbious one is Dele, but i cant see levy accepting pittance for him. That is why i see a loan happening.

I am not sure how this ends if Dele stays, unless he can turn Jose around.

Yep this sums it up perfectly.

gibbospurs · Sep 30, 2020

I’ve loved Dele over the years, But... He’s always been the same, he’s not a great footballer. He hasn’t got pace, he hasn’t got a great shot, he doesn’t take free kicks or corners his passing for me is below average but he has an eye for a pass not many others could see. But that only happens 2 or 3 times a season. And the rest of the attempts he basically loses possession. He doesn’t really get stuck in anymore either. He’s basically lost his edge. Young, minted, popular with a fit missis. He’s just coasting. It must be hard being in this situation. ( obviously not hard financially) Mentally for some to get motorvated when you literally have everything in the world.

carmeldevil · Sep 30, 2020

gibbospurs said:
I’ve loved Dele over the years, But... He’s always been the same, he’s not a great footballer. He hasn’t got pace, he hasn’t got a great shot, he doesn’t take free kicks or corners his passing for me is below average but he has an eye for a pass not many others could see. But that only happens 2 or 3 times a season. And the rest of the attempts he basically loses possession. He doesn’t really get stuck in anymore either. He’s basically lost his edge. Young, minted, popular with a fit missis. He’s just coasting. It must be hard being in this situation. ( obviously not hard financially) Mentally for some to get motorvated when you literally have everything in the world.

Let's hope other teams' scouts did not see this; otherwise the value would plummet.

robotsonic · Sep 30, 2020

Jose mentioned in the post-match interviews that some players that were on the bench or even at home would be able to start on Thursday, so I half wouldn't be surprised to see him thrown in against Haifa like he was last week in Macedonia.

Such a shame really that such a talented player hasn't been able to deliver it more regularly as time has gone on. He can make some real magic sometimes and pull off some things that few at the club can manage, and we all want to see that kind of play and skill as supporters of this club. Still hoping that this is an Ndombele-esque kick up the arse to focus on his performance and execute every match.

Don't know if it's something to do with this pandemic situation and a lot of people sitting at home bored, or just the nature of fickle football feelings, but every week seems like a month at the moment. Literally two weeks ago many wouldn't have sad to see the back of Tanguy, and now it's completely turned about face in a matter of games and we'd feel stupid to have sacked him off as he's putting the graft in and looking like the player we know he is. Now the feeling around Dele is similar, and I include myself in that. Hopefully Jose knows what he's doing whether he stays or whether he goes, but would far prefer to have whatever is going on result in us having peak Dele here and showing up for us as he's got something special if he can dig it out.

The danger for him in taking his foot off of the gas and thinking he's made it/indispensable, is that he was once one of the first names on the team sheet for England too, and now he's not even in the squad, and there are other, younger players coming up behind him. If he doesn't sort it out soon, whether at Spurs or elsewhere, he's going to have some serious regrets with regards to his career when he looks back, because he really did have the world at his feet at one point.

ravo · Sep 30, 2020

sausage said:
It's explained in the Amazon Doc - Sacremento and Jose talk about Dier and Sacremento says "They say he's the only one that enjoys the conflict on the pitch".

Dier will play because he personifies what Jose wants from the team - Dele won't because he doesn't. Again referencing the doc, in I think the last episode they had a disagreement where Dele was blaming the team, and Dier says "name them then. Don't just blame 'the team'. Sitting there like a spoilt child". It seems like Jose really, really wanted Dele to prove him wrong, but I'm not sure he has it in him.

It's possibly a weakness in players who start their top level career as kids, not adults.

I thought this part of the doc was a real eye-opener, particularly as Dier and Dele used to be real best buds.

I'm really torn on this one. There is no way that Dele is a lost cause, it seems to me that he has just had his turned by influences outside of football, or perhaps he is just one of those victims of a shit-ton of cash and fame at a young age. Not sure how he can get it back, perhaps a move is the best thing since Jose has clearly had a go at kicking him up the backside. Perhaps a manager with a different mentality will be able to rescue what was once there...

It could even be the case that he is having to self-isolate (apologies if someone has poo-pooed this theory already).

That said, he doesn't really appear to be about the 'team', and there is very little room for minds like that in the modern game (or the old game for that matter). It just isn't great for the overall atmosphere around the club. But, we just don't know all the ins and outs of it, do we?

At the end of the day, no-one can argue the immense amount of talent - it's just becoming infuriating that it hasn't been channeled better in the last couple of years.

ravo · Sep 30, 2020

Basil Brush said:
There are 3 things that appear to be happening here

1) As i have previously touched on, Jose wants hard nosed players. Unfortunately this doesnt seem to be a strength of Dele.

2) Point 1 would be fine if Dele was firing on all cylinders. However, Dele appears to be have struggled a fair bit since Jose arrived, and does he have a role into Jose structures?

3) Jose has been told he needs to raise funds (trim his squad) if he wants to bring in more players. Who has the most value of all the players that Jose doesnt necessarily like? The obbious one is Dele, but i cant see levy accepting pittance for him. That is why i see a loan happening.

I am not sure how this ends if Dele stays, unless he can turn Jose around.

Completely agree. Although IIRC, he has been struggling since way before Jose arrived. In fact didn't Jose challenge him publicly at the start and he upped his game (twice)?

hellava_tough · Sep 30, 2020

He should join Bayern and train with Mueller to be his long term replacement

Thenewcat · Sep 30, 2020

I’ve seen it suggested that letting Dele go is a KDB/Salah type situation with Mourinho. It’s nothing like it - dele is 25 and has years of top flight experience. Could he get back to being a top player? Definitely. But he doesn’t fit either a 4-3-3 or a 3-4-3 and hasn’t produced consistently for a long time.

People think we shouldn’t sell because he has bounce back potential are missing the fact that that’s the reason someone might pay good money for him. Sometimes a move is just better for everyone. I feared that was going to be the case for Ndombele but now I think it’s Dele

SamR · Sep 30, 2020

Going overseas could be his career saver.
Getting away from things here so he can focus again on just the football and rekindle his past form.

Jose in the documentary summed it up with him perfectly. He needs to find that inner motivation again. He has had chances with Jose and sadly he hasn't taken it. Levy also seems like someone who does care about the players he personally likes and i suspect Dele is one of them too - so it's one of those sad ones where it's probably the right time to move him on.

I personally hope it's a loan as I'd love to see the Dele of old again but if it's a permanent for good cash...understandable.

Spurs 1961 · Sep 30, 2020

Jose doing what he ideas with flair players. Hopefully Dele will go to a new level like De Bruyne, Salah etc under a more expansive coach.

HoltbiusMac · Sep 30, 2020

Thenewcat said:
I’ve seen it suggested that letting Dele go is a KDB/Salah type situation with Mourinho. It’s nothing like it - dele is 25 and has years of top flight experience. Could he get back to being a top player? Definitely. But he doesn’t fit either a 4-3-3 or a 3-4-3 and hasn’t produced consistently for a long time.

People think we shouldn’t sell because he has bounce back potential are missing the fact that that’s the reason someone might pay good money for him. Sometimes a move is just better for everyone. I feared that was going to be the case for Ndombele but now I think it’s Dele

He's 24. Or a whole year older than when Mourinho sold KDB and Salah.

dk-yid · Sep 30, 2020

Stamford said:
He has had more than enough time to do this though. Why should he get another year here

He hasn't had much time with Mourinho is my point, and I still believe that he is a fantastic player that is out of sorts. For example it took Poch almost 18 months to bring Sissoko from clown to core member of the team.

Thenewcat · Sep 30, 2020

HoltbiusMac said:
He's 24. Or a whole year older than when Mourinho sold KDB and Salah.

Sorry 24. But Salah and KDB player 16 games combined for Chelsea. Dele has played over 250 games for Spurs and England. It’s not remotely comparable. KDB and Salah was about not giving players a chance. Dele is a guy who has gone backwards despite being given loads of time to sort it out

CrouchPotato · Sep 30, 2020

Ndombele for me was like KDB or Salah. Dele is not the same as that, I love Dele but he’s tough to fit into a system and I really find that we look better without trying to squeeze him into the system. I still think he’s a great player but he needs the right fit now

DanNolan · Sep 30, 2020

dk-yid said:
He hasn't had much time with Mourinho is my point, and I still believe that he is a fantastic player that is out of sorts. For example it took Poch almost 18 months to bring Sissoko from clown to core member of the team.

Please don’t use this as a positive.... be honest sissoko became a core squad member because the brilliant centre midfielders we had destroyed their bodies and so had to leave. It was a matter of him being there and having to play improving when playing, but ultimately only getting in because of injuries. Sissoko is a poor footballer.

miles_64 · Sep 30, 2020

DanNolan said:
Please don’t use this as a positive.... be honest sissoko became a core squad member because the brilliant centre midfielders we had destroyed their bodies and so had to leave. It was a matter of him being there and having to play improving when playing, but ultimately only getting in because of injuries. Sissoko is a poor footballer.

Wow. You have a short memory. We were getting utterly annihilated by Ajax at home before an injured Sissoko was brought on and turned the game around. He dragged us through games with both his defensive energy and his ability to carry the ball up the pitch at pace.

Clearly, he doesn't have the world's greatest technique but he became an absolutely key player for us in that Champo League year - thanks to making the most of his other attributes and largely eliminating his heavy first touch. His mental strength alone is remarkable.

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