taidgh
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- Aug 13, 2004
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On the touchline with his back to goal? No chance.
Matt Doherty @ Atletico Madrid
- Thread starter Archibald&Crooks
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Real_madyidd
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Sorry, I didn't realise he had tackled an inanimate object.
taidgh
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So you're advocating making a tackle anywhere no matter what the actual position of the player with the ball is? Here are the two free kicks we conceded from almost identical positions that that we didn't have to. Both have the West Ham player with his back to goal, with our defenders in great position. In our defensive third, and with the ball in this position, we need to stay close without giving the player a chance to fall and give the referee a decision to make. See for yourself:
Sissoko
Aurier
Tell me then, where is the danger you can see from either position? Two West Ham forwards covered by four or three covered by five. No need to give away a free. Force the ball backwards and force WH to reset.
I'm the first to say that both frees were soft, but if you look at these pictures and can't admit you're wrong, telling me you'd rather a defender put in a challenge in these positions than not, it just shows me I should never take your football opinions seriously ever again.
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dagraham
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- Sep 20, 2005
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Yep, said at the time they were needless free kicks to give away and we do this quite a lot. Especially rash considering we’re playing against a team whose strength is set pieces and particularly the last one which is the final minute of injury time.
Next game is also against a team that are dominant in the air so hopefully we don’t repeat the same mistakes.
Frozen_Waffles
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- Jan 26, 2005
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I know its only Lask but he showed a lot of intelligent work and passes. He is going to be an asset for us going forward. I know Aurier will probably play Sunday but I think Doherty will overtake him and play in the PL.
Timberwolf
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- Jan 17, 2008
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If only we could combine Doherty and Aurier into one player - we'd have the perfect RB. Each of them has almost directly opposing strengths and weaknesses.
Aurier is quick, tenacious and has a decent shot on him but is reckless, not great in the air, and not very intelligent in his passing (although he puts a peach of a cross in every now and then).
Meanwhile Doc is intelligent, links up well, quite calm in possession and strong in the air. However he's also pretty damn slow, struggles to recover, and doesn't have that same tenacity.
I'm extremely glad we kept Aurier as I really wouldn't fancy playing Doherty in a back 4 against a pacey left sided forward (no coincidence Jose dropped him for the Utd game) but then again Aurier, even if he improves, will always be limited in certain areas.
Loathed as I am to say it, I think we need to sign another, quicker, RB to replace Aurier next summer as we just can't rely on Doherty to play every game. He's a horses for courses kind of player - not someone you can play every match regardless of the opposition (not in a back 4 anyway).
Still glad we signed him as he's talented, unique, and the price was too good to ignore, but he certainly doesn't solve our issues at RB in the way that Reguilon has done on the left.
Aurier is quick, tenacious and has a decent shot on him but is reckless, not great in the air, and not very intelligent in his passing (although he puts a peach of a cross in every now and then).
Meanwhile Doc is intelligent, links up well, quite calm in possession and strong in the air. However he's also pretty damn slow, struggles to recover, and doesn't have that same tenacity.
I'm extremely glad we kept Aurier as I really wouldn't fancy playing Doherty in a back 4 against a pacey left sided forward (no coincidence Jose dropped him for the Utd game) but then again Aurier, even if he improves, will always be limited in certain areas.
Loathed as I am to say it, I think we need to sign another, quicker, RB to replace Aurier next summer as we just can't rely on Doherty to play every game. He's a horses for courses kind of player - not someone you can play every match regardless of the opposition (not in a back 4 anyway).
Still glad we signed him as he's talented, unique, and the price was too good to ignore, but he certainly doesn't solve our issues at RB in the way that Reguilon has done on the left.
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Mark_147
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- Aug 24, 2011
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It wasn’t a foul wet spam player jumped in front of Aurier and dived and won a free kick and he would of have done exactly the same against Doherty who has looked very shaky defending in a back four. Players do that week in week out in the Premier league, but unfortunately we are conceding too many on set pieces at the moment which should put the focus of attention on the players who can defend set pieces. Whether you like it or not Aurier is currently playing better than Doherty and he will keep his place in the team as long as he continues to do so. The fact that you can only Highlight one incident from all the games Aurier has played this season shows how well he's playing and he will deservedly keep his place as long as he maintains his current form.
taidgh
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I never said one was better than the other. I said we (read ALL our players) need to stop conceding frees in dangerous positions. Go back and my post. That is the reason I bothered to screenshot the fouls.
And I like Aurier, and think he's been great this season, but you saying that instance is the only example I can find because it's the only time all season he's made a mistake is almost laugh out loud funny.
Mark_147
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I didn't say mistake i said incident because the west ham player dived so it wasn't a free kick. The only mistake was from the referee.
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taidgh
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And I'm saying that players shouldn't jump to win a ball unnecessarily when there is a danger of the referee giving a free.
But I'll leave it here, as it's a tedious argument, and you're clearly not seeing the forest for the trees.
Shadydan
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- Jul 7, 2012
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What's obvious, and what will keep happening until we improve our defending from set pieces, is that teams will play or set pieces around our box - it's clear that players are being instructed to go down under minimal challenges so the can get a cheap foul, it's happened twice this season that directly led to goals - managers definately no out weak spots and this is a major achilees heel.
@taidgh That Aurier still lacks complete context, he did initially mess up when he made a loose touch which allowed Snodgrass to get in front of him but then he just fell to the floor, that's nothing to do with Aurier or our players consicencly making a foul in a dangerous area and everything to do with cheating and a weak ref buying the foul.
@taidgh That Aurier still lacks complete context, he did initially mess up when he made a loose touch which allowed Snodgrass to get in front of him but then he just fell to the floor, that's nothing to do with Aurier or our players consicencly making a foul in a dangerous area and everything to do with cheating and a weak ref buying the foul.
Leachie
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- Feb 11, 2005
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Actually don’t think you can say that. Either one is crap and the the other is world class. Pick which one for you and defend that choice till you die.
Real_madyidd
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To be fair I didn't recall the tackles being from behind as those images show. Perfectly happy to admit that the timing of those tackles was poor, not the locations though.
I can see the danger in both of those pictures. Picture one the danger is in the pass back or the cross. Picture two it is in the player taking him on the inside. Having said that, I used to play fullback, I would have let them both turn and smashed them with a slide tackle.
taidgh
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Last word on this as I don't want to keep spamming the thread.
I'm not disagreeing with you that the West Ham player made a meal of it. But similar to compounding a bad touch by lunging to get the ball and getting a card, Aurier jumped forward to make up for the mistouch and in lacking to composure to just defend, gave the referee a choice to make.
There's always some element of danger with the ball in any position on the pitch, I suppose, but give me 5 defending three or four covering two every single time. Our defenders were optimally placed to cut out a cross in both cases, and we have to be more disciplined and defend tightly without conceding a free kick, especially with the Aurier 'foul', at that point in the game.
I'm not disagreeing with you that the West Ham player made a meal of it. But similar to compounding a bad touch by lunging to get the ball and getting a card, Aurier jumped forward to make up for the mistouch and in lacking to composure to just defend, gave the referee a choice to make.
There's always some element of danger with the ball in any position on the pitch, I suppose, but give me 5 defending three or four covering two every single time. Our defenders were optimally placed to cut out a cross in both cases, and we have to be more disciplined and defend tightly without conceding a free kick, especially with the Aurier 'foul', at that point in the game.
Shadydan
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But he didn't though, that's the point, he literally did nothing. He was guilty of having a bad first touch then Snodgrass nipped in front of him.
taidgh
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Alright, you've obligated me to go find the video, clip it, and then upload it. He had a heavy first touch (not all that terrible mind - it was a difficult ball to deal with - but was still heavy) and then picks his head up to look up the pitch without having a clue where Snodgrass is. He belatedly realizes Snodgrass is going to challenge for the ball and moves to block him off with his left leg. There may have been slight contact with his left foot on Snodgrass' foot, but Snodgrass goes down like he's been shot. As I said, he compounded a heavy touch by jumping in to try and block off Snodgrass. In that position, at that time of the game, you just have to let him nip in ahead, and just defend. Don't give the opposition any chance to collapse, and don't give the referee a chance to award a free.
https://streamable.com/e/tpv8ci
https://streamable.com/e/tpv8ci
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KikoSpurs
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taidgh
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Missing the point here.
Real_madyidd
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He's done nothing wrong there. I hadn't re watched that. No foul, no free kick. The ref is at fault there.
ComfortablyNumb
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- Jun 28, 2011
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I fear it was, on one occasion...
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